Computer will not boot

[DarkStar]

Saturday night computer went belly up while surfing and wouldn't get any further than the first screen with a message at the bottom 'Disk Boot Failure'. Tried to reinstall a backup which got to 5% and said 'input/output error'. Clicked OK and next message was 'Unable to write to destination disk'.
Contacted Macrium who e-mailed me back that in their opinion the hard drive was damaged.
So got a new one this morning and fitted it, booted from the Macrium Recovery disk and the back up completed but when it rebooted the first page gave the following:

Detecting Primary Master --------
Detecting Primary Slave - None
Detecting Secondary Master - Lite-on Combo SOHC 5236K
Detecting Secondary Slave - None
Primary Master Drive Fails

Disk Boot Failure
Insert system disk and press enter

Have reinstalled Windows XP Home from my recovery disk - same result.
Connected the new hard drive up the same as the old one, in fact this is the same set of messages that I got with the old disk when trying to boot up yesterday.
Funny (? ) thing is that I have a Linux Ubuntu disk in the CD drive and that has booted up no problem which is how I am sending this.
Any ideas or advice gratefully received. I am not that well clued up on computer operating systems so there could be something obvious that I am missing here.
Perhaps that new Windows 7 machine is coming earlier than I expected.

[pctech]

So just to be absolutely clear did the Windows install successfully format and then copy files to the disk?

[pctech]

Just another thought.

Have you checked the jumpers on the replacement drive?

[Steve]

I'm guessing its an IDE drive , Bios doesn't appear to be detecting it,so check the jumpers are set correctly as Mitch said if all's working correctly the Live CD should see that drive. I wonder whether the motherboard controller is faulty

[DarkStar]

Just another thought.

Have you checked the jumpers on the replacement drive?

Have just looked at the documentation for the new hard drive on the WD site below

http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2521&p_created=&p_cats=185&p_cv=1.185&p_pv=2.296&p_prods=208%2C296

The Maxtor I took out has only 9 pins, I am sure the new one has 10. the chap in the computer shop said to make sure the jumper (that is the little plastic bit that slides over two of the pins?) was in the same place on the new one as on the old one which is the second pair from the left. Looking at the diagram in that WD link should I try a different position?

[DarkStar]

So just to be absolutely clear did the Windows install successfully format and then copy files to the disk?

Yes, removed the old installation of Windows and then installed the new one and rebooted to the info in my first post.

[DarkStar]

I'm guessing its an IDE drive , Bios doesn't appear to be detecting it,so check the jumpers are set correctly as Mitch said if all's working correctly the Live CD should see that drive. I wonder whether the motherboard controller is faulty

Yes, it is an IDE drive, the computer is 7 years old now. What puzzles me is that Linux is running OK, I would have thought that if it was the motherboard nothing would work.

[kinmel]

The Live CD is operating only in RAM from the DVD drive and does not need a hard drive to be present.

A common cause is either a defective IDE cable, or a defective motherboard IDE controller.

Test the HDD with the original IDE cable using the Secondary Master socket on the MB, if it works then the MB controller is faulty.

If it still does not work try the HDD with the IDE cable from the DVD unit.

[Steve]

if it's a 10 pin drive as a single disk looks like it should be jumperless to me

[DarkStar]

if it's a 10 pin drive as a single disk looks like it should be jumperless to me

Will try it tomorrow, I can pull that out with a pair of tweezers without having to move anything else

[DarkStar]

Have now tried with the jumper removed and with all the possible other combinations - no change. The only thing that is consistent is the 'disk boot failure' and the failure to detect the 'Primary master'

[Glenn]

Ian, how did you manage to reinstall Windows if the drive is not seen?

Have you tried resetting the BIOS on the motherboard?

[DarkStar]

The Live CD is operating only in RAM from the DVD drive and does not need a hard drive to be present.

A common cause is either a defective IDE cable, or a defective motherboard IDE controller.

Test the HDD with the original IDE cable using the Secondary Master socket on the MB, if it works then the MB controller is faulty.

If it still does not work try the HDD with the IDE cable from the DVD unit.

Thanks for the info about operating in RAM. I should have remembered that.

Where do I find the Secondary Master socket on the MB?

Will try with the IDE cable from the DVD drive as well.

I take it that the IDE cable is the flat one with 40? pins.

Apologies for seeming so dense  I'll be a lot better inform by the time I get to the end of this even if it turns out the computer is knackered.

[DarkStar]

Ian, how did you manage to reinstall Windows if the drive is not seen?

Have you tried resetting the BIOS on the motherboard?

I used the Linux recovery disk with Macrium and did a successful bare metal reinstall of the backup from an external USB HD to the new internal HD. I know it was successful because I can access all the docs and folders I installed from Ubuntu. I can view my photos - everything.

Have had a look in BIOS but am not that clued up there. If anyone can tell me what to look for I'll look for it. Cannot do screen shots because I cannot store them.

[kinmel]

Where do I find the Secondary Master socket on the MB?

The DVD's IDE cable is inserted in it at the moment, just  swap the cables at the motherboard

Will try with the IDE cable from the DVD drive as well.

Don't swap the cable at the same time as moving the cables on the motherboard

I take it that the IDE cable is the flat one with 40? pins.

Yes.

Apologies for seeming so dense  I'll be a lot better inform by the time I get to the end of this even if it turns out the computer is knackered.

You are not being dense, you are asking the right questions 

[Glenn]

Ian, What BIOS is it? What you are looking for is some thing along the lines of Optimal defaults.

[DarkStar]

Sorry for being a bit late replying, been out most of the morning till 13:30.
Have now tried the IDE cable from the HD in the secondary master socket and windows then gets past the first screen and asks me to put my recovery disk into the DVD/CD drive but that drive now no longer works because it's connected to the Primary master socket. If I connect either the HD or the DVD/CD drive to the Primary master socket with either cable nothing happens, dead. If I connect either of them to the secondary master socket they work, with either cable, so the cables are OK and working.
However, if I connect the HD to the secondary master socket it eventually gets past the first page, Windows XP Home logo comes up and asks me to insert the recovery disk into the DVD/CD drive, but that doesn't work because it's connected to the Primary master socket.
Nothing appears to work if connected to the Primary master socket so it would seem that the Primary master socket is dead, I have had to connect the DVD/CD back to the Secondary master socket to get the Linux disk going. I noticed when delving into the deeps of the CPU that I have what appears to be another socket that the floppy disc drive is connected to, can that be utilised or is it the wrong size?

@Glenn,
Will reply to your query about the BIOS in about an hour or so, have something urgent to do  

[Rik]

Can you not use the two drives as master and slave on one cable, Ian?

[pctech]

You cant use the floppy connector unfortunately.

Sounds like your motherboard is on its way out as you cant replace the controller.

[pctech]

As Rik said you can try putting them on one cable.

[DarkStar]

As Rik said you can try putting them on one cable.

How do I do that?

[Steve]

Using secondary IDE port connect HDD as Master and CD/DVD as slave,both need to jumpered correctly

[Rik]

You need a cable which has two plugs on it, Ian. Some come with a 'twist' so you don't need to do any jumpering, others are straight and you need to set the jumpers on the drives to master and slave.

http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=334357&CatId=1548

[DarkStar]

You need a cable which has two plugs on it, Ian. Some come with a 'twist' so you don't need to do any jumpering, others are straight and you need to set the jumpers on the drives to master and slave.

http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=334357&CatId=1548

Thanks for that guide Rik, I'm starting to get out of my depth. Will have proper read of it in a little while, just had my tea  now have to wash up and clean Guinea Pig out.

[Rik]

Not literally, I hope? 

[DarkStar]

Just had a read of that link Rik, one of the cables (the HDD one I think) has one of those connectors about half way along it, wondered what it was for. Will shut down and have a look inside and see what happens.

Slightly off topic, I seem to remember someone asking about a case/container that you can put an internal HDD in to convert it into an external USB connection HDD. Do you have a link? I am thinking that if I get a new computer I will have a new HDD that I can hopefully convert to a new external HDD. 

Not literally, I hope? 

No should have cleaned her out a couple of days ago but she hasn't been very well so I left her alone but she seems to have perked up a bit this afternoon. Did have four of them but the others have all died now 

[Rik]

I don't have a link, Ian, but others will.

[drummer]

Do mean an enclosure?

[DarkStar]

Do mean an enclosure?

Yes thats what I'm looking for
As it looks as though this computer is on the way out and I've just bought a new internal HDD for it I thought I could put it in one of those and make use of it for back-ups or storage.

[DarkStar]

Rik, et all, have tried using the one cable to connect to the one good connector but still doesn't work 
Will continue using the Linux disc to get online and start looking for a new machine. Watch out for a new thread asking for manufacturers/suppliers who are reliable and give good back up if things go wrong.

[DarkStar]

Ian, What BIOS is it? What you are looking for is some thing along the lines of Optimal defaults.

I can only get into the BIOS on start up Glenn and cannot find anything resembling Optimal defaults unless you mean the bit where it mentions Master and Secondary slaves which are all listed as 'Auto'

[wecpcs]

Rik, et all, have tried using the one cable to connect to the one good connector but still doesn't work 
Will continue using the Linux disc to get online and start looking for a new machine. Watch out for a new thread asking for manufacturers/suppliers who are reliable and give good back up if things go wrong.

If the WD HDD and the CD/DVD ROM drive both work separately on the same IDE cable on the secondary motherboard slot then you either have a faulty IDE cable or you have not jumpered the two devices correctly. On all ROMS the slave position is the middle set of pins. On the WD HDD their jumper arrangement is slightly different to other manufacturers in the fact that there used to be two Master settings, one which was Master only and the other was Master with Slave attached. This I found out when I used to own my own PC shop and it caught me out several times when I had two WD drives on the same cable and when I removed the slave in its removable caddy the master would not reboot without re-jumpering it.

Colin

[DarkStar]

Thanks for your info Colin. If you take a look at the WD diagram I linked to in reply #4 for 10 pin set up, which jumper set up should I try if I am putting the black connector into the HDD, grey to the CD/DVD and blue to the secondary motherboard connector. I will set the jumper on the DVD to the middle set then and give it another go.
Will not have time tonight though and will be out till dinner time tomorrow.

[kinmel]

Thanks for your info Colin. If you take a look at the WD diagram I linked to in reply #4 for 10 pin set up, which jumper set up should I try if I am putting the black connector into the HDD, grey to the CD/DVD and blue to the secondary motherboard connector. I will set the jumper on the DVD to the middle set then and give it another go.
Will not have time tonight though and will be out till dinner time tomorrow.

In case Colin doesn't get back in time..............  Jumper goes on the centre pair, pins 5 and 6 "Dual (Master)"

[drummer]

If the motherboard supports it, choosing Cable Select for the jumpers on all drives usually works.

[wecpcs]

Thanks for your info Colin. If you take a look at the WD diagram I linked to in reply #4 for 10 pin set up, which jumper set up should I try if I am putting the black connector into the HDD, grey to the CD/DVD and blue to the secondary motherboard connector. I will set the jumper on the DVD to the middle set then and give it another go.
Will not have time tonight though and will be out till dinner time tomorrow.

It does not matter which way around you put the cable (unlike floppy cables which have a twist in them). Generally the blue connector goes to the MB which is usually coloured blue (although some manufacturers use different colours such as red). The end connector to the master (HDD) and the middle connector to the slave (ROM). But as I have said that the cable can be reversed depending on if the cable is of suitable length. Sometimes it is easier to reverse the cable and also for neatness sake, as I had to do some times when I built systems for customers. I remember many years ago WD made a drive which had a inherent fault and the only way of getting the PC to recognize it was to physically cut pin 1 on the cable (a so called WD fix or bodge as I called it at the time), meaning the cable could then not be reversed. That put me off WD for quite a few years. They should have recalled them but did not.

Colin

[DarkStar]

Been out a long time today and not had a very successful day at that trying to arrange travel insurance and am feeling very tired at the moment so will probably wait until at least tomorrow to have another try at fixing it. It is essential at the moment after what happened this morning that I have a connection to the internet for at least a few days so I don't want to risk messing things up completely until I have a new computer.

[Rik]

Hopefully, things will go better tomorrow, Ian.

[DarkStar]

Hopefully, things will go better tomorrow, Ian.

I have a gut feeling it might be a long haul Rik. Got turned down flat at Nationwide 

[Rik]

That's unfortunate, they were very accommodating with me.