New to IDNet

[foreversummer]

Hi

Joined IDNet last Tuesday and my line speed has increased to 3.5 meg from 2.5 meg (Sky) so very happy.  My maximum line speed is supposed to be 7 meg though.

One thing I've noticed is that since the change over on one of my telephone extensions I can hear 'broadband noise' - sounds something similar to the sort of noise I used to get when connecting to a dial up connection many moons ago.  I've changed to filter on both the phone extension that is making the noise and also the extension that the router is connected to but it is still the same.

Following the things I've learned on these boards, I've found my router statistics.  They are:

Sync 7616 kbps
8.7 db line attenuation
11 db noise margin (last night the noise margin was 7.6 db).

I've had a couple of drops today.

Am wondering what you knowledgeable guys make of my stats, also any suggestions regarding the noisey telephone line would be much appreciated.

Foreversummer

[Glenn]

 

With everything disconnected from your master socket, bar a phone, try a quite line test. Dial 17070 then follow the instructions, all you should hear, is a gentle background hum. If there are any crackles, then you will need to log a fault with your phone line supplier, don't mention a broadband fault, just a noisy line.

If the line is quite, add one device at a time, checking for noise as each item is connected.

[foreversummer]

Hi Glenn

Thanks for coming back so quickly!

Can I plug the phone into the master socked as it is or do I need to take the face plate off and find the test socket?  I'm just in the process of changing my line rental to IDNet from Sky and I think that is happening during next week.  Maybe I should wait until the changeover?  Just to reiterate, I've not had any noise on my line before the new router I purchased from IDnet and the changeover.

Best wishes
Foreversummer

[Glenn]

Ideally, remove the faceplate and use the test socket. With Sky, was you on a LLU connection, if so, then I think your line would have been moved in the exchange?

Personally, I would wait until the line is under IDNet's control, then report the fault if it is still noisy, you will no doubt get far better service, than through Sky's helpdesk.

[Simon]

Hi Foreversummer (but glad it isn't!)  

[foreversummer]

Thank you both guys.

I will try that.  I've been so impressed with the service at IDNet but I guess I do not need to tell you that!

I don't think I was LLU (fast fibre optic?), just rural Dorset old wires, but quite close to my exchange.

What do you make of my stats?  Have learned so much over the past couple of weeks but still trying to get to grips with things.

Foreversummer (wishful thinking of course!!)

[Glenn]

Sync 7616 kbps
8.7 db line attenuation
11 db noise margin (last night the noise margin was 7.6 db).

The attenuation of 8.7db, people here would die for, mine is 60.6db, are you in the exchange?

There is noise on the line, but you already know that, as the 11/12db nm shows. Once you can isolate the cause of the noise, the nm should reduce and the line speed increase.

[Ray]

 

[foreversummer]

Thanks all so much.

Will do as you have suggested and will report back in due course.

Foreversummer

[zappaDPJ]

 

[Lance]

Sync 7616 kbps
8.7 db line attenuation
11 db noise margin (last night the noise margin was 7.6 db).

The attenuation of 8.7db, people here would die for, mine is 60.6db, are you in the exchange?

There is noise on the line, but you already know that, as the 11/12db nm shows. Once you can isolate the cause of the noise, the nm should reduce and the line speed increase.

I disagree. I think the sync indicates an interleaved line and therefore the increased noise margin is the margin to spare. I think a BT speedtest would be useful to see along with error counts (I'm not sure if that is possible from Netgear routers).

[DorsetBoy]

Thank you both guys.

I will try that.  I've been so impressed with the service at IDNet but I guess I do not need to tell you that!

I don't think I was LLU (fast fibre optic?), just rural Dorset old wires, but quite close to my exchange.

What do you make of my stats?  Have learned so much over the past couple of weeks but still trying to get to grips with things.

Foreversummer (wishful thinking of course!!)

Dorset??? Someone say Dorset  ?      Which exchange are you on?  (LLU by the way is not a fibre service )  Noise could be line or a duff filter so Quiet line test, if line is noisy with just the phone connected the problem is the BT line, if line is quiet try a new filter then internal wiring and noise sources,  a BT speed test and the router stats would be good to see.

[Steve]

 

You need to check your home wiring especially looking for the bell or ring wire since you've got a couple of extensions. It might be worth considering a filtered face plate on the master socket which will do away with the need for extra filters.

[Rik]

Hi Forever and welcome to the forum. I agree with Lance, your stats suggest noise or errors on the line and interleaving has been turned on. If you can hear the router on the phone, the first thing to do is try a different filter. For that attenuation, I'd also expect a higher noise margin, so if you have a battery powered, MW radio, de-tune it so that all you have is a hiss, then following your phone line from where it enter the house right up to the router. If the hiss gets louder, something in that area is giving off interference.

[foreversummer]

Hi Guys

Just an update and a question.

Everything has been working fine in our house.  Haven't had time to carry out any of the tests yet probably because everything has been going really well until today.  On the odd occasion that I did do a speedtest speeds have been improving.  We were around 6.6 meg (absolutely brilliant!!)

However, today the kids have complained of the router disconnecting about every 45 mins.  The little red light on the DGN1000 router shows just for a few seconds and then they can connect without problem again.

However, speed has dropped to about 3-4 meg, sync speed has dropped to 6624 and the line attentuation has increased to 14.2 db!!!!!  Now correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the attentuation was about how far you are from the exchange?  The house is still in exactly the same location as it was yesterday and I'm sure the exchange is probably in the same place as it was the last time I went past it on Friday!  How on earth can this be?

Foreversummer

[Rik]

I think you're probably looking at the noise margin there, unless you're very close to the exchange. An increase in that figure would fit with a lowering of sync speed and frequent losses of sync. It suggests interference, either locally or along BT's wiring. How is the router connected to the BT socket, ie direct of via an extension? What else is connected to the line, phones, Sky boxes etc?

[foreversummer]

Hi Rik

Many thanks for coming back so quickly.

The attentuation figure is definitely 14.2 db again 8.7 db previously (we are close the the exchange - it is just a couple of minutes walk away).  The noise margin is currently 11.6 but does fluctuate between 11 and 13.5 dcb.

The router is connect to an extension socket.  Unfortunately the master socket is just inside my front floor quite low down so it would be a silly place to put the router unfortunately.

I just can't see why my attenuation would rise (almost double) so suddenly!!

Foreversummer

[Rik]

Neither can I, except through a wiring fault. What kind of extension lead is it, flat or round? If you dial 17070 and select option 2, quiet line test, do you hear any crackling? Can you do a BT speed test for me an post the results?

[Steve]

Unless you've changed router,moved from adsl to adsl2+ or the line has deteriorated.

[foreversummer]

Hi Rik

The extension lead is round and goes from the master socket through the external wall of the house and back into the house to a different room.  (The extension was done for us by an engineer when we moved into the house four years ago).   I've just done the quiet line test from the phone attached to the same socket and at first I can hear the broadband noise (like the old broadband dial up noise), then a slight hiss but no crackling.

Steve, thanks for replying.  I moved to IDNet on 16th August and purchased the Netgear dng1000 router from them and I live in dorset so have old wiring.

Foreversummer

[Rik]

Try using a different filter and, if possible, a different extension. Did the engineer use proper external grade cable, has the insulation degraded in any way, eg become crombly?

[foreversummer]

Oh crickey.

My line attenuation has just gone down to 8.5 db.  Am keeping the router stats minimised.  Sync is now 7296, attentuation 8.5db and noise margin 13.1.

??

[foreversummer]

Hi Rik

I have replaced all the filters in the house a couple of weeks ago.  The wiring looks ok by eye.

Foreversummer

[DorsetBoy]

Which exchange are you on?

[foreversummer]

Bere Regis exchange in Dorset.

Router still dropping.  Dropped about 10 minutes ago.

[Rik]

How about other attached devices? What happens if you only have the router connected?

[DorsetBoy]

Bere Regis exchange in Dorset.

Router still dropping.  Dropped about 10 minutes ago.

Hi neighbour   we are just down the road at Carey,Wareham.

[foreversummer]

Hi Dorset Boy

Well well, a small world as they say.  Nice to hear from you.

Rik, I guess the sensible thing is to unplug everything and go straight into the test socket with a corded phone and do the quite line test.  Then if that is OK unplug my extensions one by one and try to eliminate.

The thing is, at present my router is connected to my main computer with the ethenet cable but my son does not get a good signal in his bedroom.  So the router will need to be moved to a more central position, then we will all connect wirelessly.  Might this overcome the problem?

Foreversummer

[Rik]

It might, the first thing, though, is to find out if the cable to the router, or the router itself, is the problem.

[foreversummer]

Do you mean the ethernet cable as I have a spare somewhere?

Foreversummer

[Rik]

No, the phone-extension cable. If you can  do it, move the router to the master socket and use a long ethernet cable to connect one machine. If the situation stabilises, the extension lead is the problem. (If you can get to the test socket behind the faceplate of the master, so much the better.)

[DorsetBoy]

If you need a second router for testing, I have a Speedtouch 586 sitting here, I can drop that in to you tomorrow if needed.

[Rik]

Thanks, Dorset. 

[foreversummer]

Hi Rik

I will move the router to the master socket as you say then I'll know if it is the extension cable or not I guess.  Looking at it, I have one of those faceplates that are in two parts if you know what I mean so I guess I can get to the test socket without too much of a problem.  

DorsetBoy - how very kind of you.  I really appreciate your willingless to help a complete stranger albeit we live just a few miles apart.  I don't want to put you to any trouble until I've tried everything I can at my end so I'll try the test socket first and report back.  Thank you so much once again.

Thanks you both for spending you Sunday evening helping me.

Foreversummer

[Rik]

Our pleasure.

One other thing to try is to download a copy of Routerstats:

http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm
http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/moreinternet/files.htm

and leave that running on your machine for 24 hours. That will demonstrate just what's happening when the router resyncs.

[Technical Ben]

Have we suggested removing the bell wire yet?

[foreversummer]

Oh dear.  New problem this morning.

Router has stayed connected all night, but, about half of the web pages I am clicking on this morning come up with "this page cannot be displayed" and I have to hit refresh to get it to load, which it does straight away.

Also, I worked out how to do the BT Line Test this mornng, results are:

7150 max achieveable speed
4753 Download
DSL Connection rate: 7264 kbps downstream, 736 kbps upstream
IP Profile 5000 kbps

Any ideas?

Foreversummer

[Gary]

I unplugged my router for about 5 mins then plugged back in, IDNet are now using one of Open DNS servers instead of 212.69.36.3. So its 212.69.40.3 then 208.67.222.222 that works and they will keep 212.69. 36.3 offline till they get than DNS server sorted.

[Rik]

Something obviously went wrong last night.

[Gary]

Something obviously went wrong last night.

36.3 was taken down from what Miriam said this morning, Rik. It won't be put back on till they know all is well. Might be worth mentioning it in the Sticky maybe? Or just add them manually if need be for people comfortable doing that.

[foreversummer]

I've rebooted my router and are not getting any more "this page cannot be displayed messages".

Thank you.

[Rik]

Phew.

[foreversummer]

Hi. 

I've had several loss of connections over the past few days and my sync speed has been dropping (down to 6238 yesterday morning from 7616 at its peak).  So yesterday morning at 9am I plugged my modem and one telephone into the test socket.

There was one drop last evening at about 7.30pm.  However this morning my router stats show:

Sync speed 4928
Line Attentuation 7.7 db
Noise Margin 20.4

So the noise margin has shot up and the sync speed has gone to the lowest its ever been.

Regarding the ring circuit, I can see some yellow wires but it is a jungle in there and I'd not want to fiddle!  Presumably though now that my internal wiring is disconnected this will not be an issue?

Any thoughs greatly appreciated as always.

Foreversummer

[Rik]

It sounds like you may have been put on a banded profile. Contact support - though you will need to find the cause of that noise.

[foreversummer]

Hi Rik

Thanks for your reply.  So I'm in the test socket with my internal wiring disconnected so the noise is not coming from there presumably.  I've just done the quiet line test on 17070 and it is crystal clear.

So where can the noise be coming from?  I understand that interference from electrical items can affect a connection but does it still do that if the internal wiring is disconnected?

Foreversummer

[Steve]

It should stabilise on the test socket unless there is a  external line, filter or router fault.

[Rik]

It can do. Can you lay your hands on a battery-powered MW radio? If so, de-tune it so you only have white noise (hiss), then follow the phone line from where it enters your house to the router, listening for an increase in volume. If you hear one, that's interference.

[foreversummer]

Hi Rik

Well, the router is right next to the master socket.  In the vicinity the light makes a little noise when turned on if I'm very close to it.  The telephone I've jot plugged in does not show any noise nor does the electric socket.  But if I go near the router it cracks and pops very loudly!

Sorry, I don't really get all this stuff!

Foreversummer

[Rik]

What's the router? Do you have, or could you get, a spare to try out?

[DorsetBoy]

I still have the Speedtouch sitting here and could be in Bere Regis in @10 minutes.

[foreversummer]

Its the Netgear DNG1000 which I purchased from IDNet.  The first one they sent me (same router) booted up once then died a death.  The only other router I have here is my previous sky router which support thought there may be a problem in configuring as some ISPs fix their routers so you cannot use them with a different ISP.  They did offer to try for me but I thought I'd push out the boat and have a new one.

I did phone Miriam in support yesterday morning and she tested the router and said it was working fine.  May there be problems she cannot detect her end?

Foreversummer

[foreversummer]

Hi Dorsetboy - you're a gem.

Unfortunately, I have to go off to work shortly so can't do anything else for the rest of the day.  I'm keeping it in the test socket for now and monitor it over the next 24 hours or so and if things don't improve I will take you up on your kind offer.

Thank you so much.

Foreversummer

[DorsetBoy]

Hi Dorsetboy - you're a gem.

Unfortunately, I have to go off to work shortly so can't do anything else for the rest of the day.  I'm keeping it in the test socket for now and monitor it over the next 24 hours or so and if things don't improve I will take you up on your kind offer.

Thank you so much.

Foreversummer

No problem , let me know what you want to do. You can always send a private message via my Profile page.

[Rik]

That would be great, Dorset. 

[foreversummer]

I am so confused and slightly disillusioned this afternoon.

I am on ADSL (not 2).  I spoke with Miriam on Friday morning and she says that everything points to the fact that my line cannot support the higher speeds and 4000 is probably my best IP profile (as selected by DLM).  Since then, until last evening, my sync speed has been 4900 and everything is fine.  I managed to stay connected (in the test socket) for 75 hours!!  We are very happy with that speed and appreciated the stable connection.  

However, today I have had multiple disconnections and now for the first time every we have actually had to reboot the router to get our connection back.  This morning I noticed that we are syncing at 6100.  So it looks that DLM has upped our speed because the line has been stable!!  Well correct me if I am wrong, but this is a vicious circle.  How the hell on earth am I ever going to have a stable connection if everytime it is stable they put the speed up?

Getting cheesed off and confused at the same time.  

Foreversummer

[Rik]

Have you tried an alternative router?

You could ask IDNet to have your target noise margin fixed at a higher level, this will generally stop DLM moving the sync speed up and down too much.

[foreversummer]

Hi Rik

I haven't tried a different router because Miriam said my stats show that it is fine.  Also, the fact that we have managed to stay connected for 72 hours (the longest every since joining) albeit at the slower speed seems to back up what Miriam is saying.

I guess it is best to talk with her again tomorrow.  If she can fix it at the higher level and our profile can remain at 4000 I guess that is best for us.  Goodness knows why we cannot get the higher speeds with only 7.7 db from the exchange but there you are.

Main priority is to get a stable connection.

Thanks for you prompt reply as ever.

I can't help feeling that you think we may have a router problem.  But all of the above does not point to that.  I have an old Sky router here which I could try to reconfigure and Dorsetboy has kindly offered to lend one of his.  But if we managed to say connected for a longer time on the 4000 profile  surely this is our problem!

Foreversummer

[Rik]

It's always handy to eliminate the possibility of a router fault. It's not that I think you have a problem, rather that I like to make sure there isn't.

[foreversummer]

Thanks Rik

Greatful as every for your input.

I'll talk with Miriam again tomorrow and see what she suggests.

Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.

Foreversummer.

[Rik]

And you.