Erbistock villagers quoted £550,000 for broadband link

[DorsetBoy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-11166119

Villagers have been told it would cost them £550,000 to be provided with a broadband internet connection.

British Telecom's estimate included installing the infrastructure necessary to provide the broadband link for 80 households in Erbistock, near Wrexham.

But the residents have since been given a £50,000 estimate by another firm, Rutland Telecom, and they hope to be online by October.

BT said it was actively investigating alternative solutions for the village......(more)

So BT shoot themselves in the Asp yet again.

[Steve]

More good news for Rutland Telecom though

[Rik]

Indeed, which in the long term, is more good news for us all.

[kinmel]

The icing on the cake is that the Welsh Assembly pays up to £1,000 per household to enable "Not Spots" such as Erbistock

[Rik]

Any idea how large the village is, Alan?

[Niall]

Looking on google maps, it seems pretty small. You could probably fit quite a few of them into Wrexham town centre

[kinmel]

Any idea how large the village is, Alan?

Apparently it has 200 people living in 80 households.

[Rik]

So they should get the whole installation paid for?

[pctech]

£550,000? What are they using? Gold cable?



Seriously though, its probably due to the civil engineering works required.

[Rik]

Which begs the question as to why Rutland can do it for so much less.

[pctech]

Pass.

[Rik]

I'd like to see the figures from both companies, wouldn't you?

[kinmel]

So they should get the whole installation paid for?

With change if they all apply !

Which begs the question as to why Rutland can do it for so much less.

BT claim that any installation they do must be made available to any ISP and hence much more complexity and equipment at the exchange.

Rutland don't have that problem, they simply get BT to run a supplied fibre cable from a single connection at the exchange through existing ducting to terminate in the village at a R.T. box.


I can't understand why other small Telecom companies don't offer similar services.

[Rik]

Or why villages don't setup cooperatives to do the same thing.

[Den]

Erbistock is more of a hamlet and is spread over quite a large area therefore it is difficult to service. Most of the cables I think are overhead to the out laying parts creating it's own problems. I am not surprised at BTs estimate but amazed at the other one. 

[Rik]

At that price, I'd have the fibre laid just to my home.

[pctech]

With change if they all apply !

BT claim that any installation they do must be made available to any ISP and hence much more complexity and equipment at the exchange.

As far as I understand it all the connections from the exchange go to the BRAS and then the ISP picks up the traffic there or BT will run it to one of the ISPs POPs where they connect to an edge router.

[Niall]

At that price, I'd have the fibre laid just to my home.

Since I went up to Caernarfon and the surrounding areas the other week, and fell in love with the isolation of some parts, I wondered how much it would cost me to get ADSL installed if it wasn't out there, which I'd be amazed if it was as there are about 3 houses there and 6 shops

[Simon]

Makes you wonder how the shops keep going.   

[kinmel]

Makes you wonder how the shops keep going.  

All the grockles, who love to buy Welsh mementos, usually made in Taiwan from reconstituted slate.

[Simon]

Ah...   

[kinmel]

Erbistock is more of a hamlet and is spread over quite a large area therefore it is difficult to service. Most of the cables I think are overhead to the out laying parts creating it's own problems. I am not surprised at BTs estimate but amazed at the other one. 

R.T. use fibre to the cabinet and then either the existing copper lines ( just like B.T.'s current roll-out ), or on long lines from the cabinet they use wireless instead of copper.

[Den]

Update from BT

Erbistock appears to be the centre of the broadband universe this week, a BT press release has announced that BT is to bring broadband to a welsh 'not-spot'. Erbistock is due to get a FTTC service from Rutland Telecom later this year, but it appears that BT Openreach is not giving up without a fight. The 80 customers in the Erbistock area will now have the chance to contact their current or prospective broadband supplier to get their line moved from the Bangor-on-Dee (Bangor ls-Y-Coed) exchange to the Overton exchange (map of the area). There is a cost to this move of around £100. No exact figure can be given as it is possible the retail broadband providers may vary the price. One downside is that the move to another exchange will necessitate a change of phone number.

The move should be relatively transparent for broadband users, as both exchanges currently only offer BT Wholesale ADSL based services. Openreach estimates connection speeds between 1Mbps and 4Mbps after the line migration should be possible.

"We have bent over backwards to find a broadband solution for Erbistock and have been exploring possible solutions for more than a year now. There have been considerable technical hurdles to overcome but we are pleased to say that we are now very close to delivering a broadband service to the community.

The proposed solution will deliver a stable copper broadband service to everyone in the village, and the open nature of our network means that local people will be able to enjoy a choice of broadband supplier and the great value deals that come with competition."

Olivia Garfield, (Strategy Director) BT
While the best value deals will not be available to Erbistock customers, since there is no LLU available at the exchange, we are sure residents will be very happy to be able to start abandoning dial-up Internet access. A few months down the line, once Rutland Telecom gets its service up and running, access speeds of 20 to 40Mbps should be possible too. The big question for those in the area is whether they should wait for Rutland Telecom or order broadband now - the best recommendation would be to look for broadband with a provider who offers short one month contracts to give you a flexibility in the future. For those working from home where the company is willing to pay for the broadband, the availability of a wide range of providers can be paramount, as a firm can use their preferred broadband supplier.

We can expect to see lots of comments that BT is only doing this because of the possible competition from Rutland Telecom, and in the past similar situations were common where an area would arrange for an alternate solution to get first generation broadband to an area (e.g. wireless) and then BT would then enable the exchange for basic ADSL services. This seems to be the nature of commercial competition, a town will have no coffee shops for years, then within months of the first one opening, the usual suspects will have appeared in the High Street.

A big question now for other not and slow spot areas, is that now BT Openreach has done this once, are they willing to do it again? We doubt that a single customer would be able to request such a change of exchange, but if there are 60 to 80 lines that would benefit, perhaps something can be made to happen.

Funny really: Erbistock is much closer to Overton, just the river Dee in the way

[Rik]

Bt are running a spoiler action, presumably to make the Rutland move non-viable.

[Niall]

It makes me wonder how a village that has no broadband can go from nothing to fibre within a few months, while Wrexham's main exchange with thousands more users isn't getting it any time soon

BT = media whores.

[Den]

I'm only a couple of mile from you Niall (on the Gresford exchange) but you are on much faster Broadband than me (6.3mb) and I'm not moaning 

[Niall]

I just think it's daft. What I've got is more than enough for me, but I find the whole thing stupid. Having a media battle over 80 houses, saying they will install FTTC when my exchange is serving 21k residential properties, and doesn't have it.

One thing I just noticed on samknows is that they used to have estimated dates for things on the status page, but it just shows that something is available or not now.

[Technical Ben]

I just think it's daft. What I've got is more than enough for me, but I find the whole thing stupid. Having a media battle over 80 houses, saying they will install FTTC when my exchange is serving 21k residential properties, and doesn't have it.

One thing I just noticed on samknows is that they used to have estimated dates for things on the status page, but it just shows that something is available or not now.

BT basically did the same with the word "unlimited" with the phrase "on such and such a date". Samknows realised this, and so dropped all the dates, as BT must be following some Aztec cross Martian calender.

[Den]

Update --- Update --- Update

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-11287904

See what you get when you ask 

[Rik]

BT are embarrassed I suspect, Den.

[Lance]

I just think it's daft. What I've got is more than enough for me, but I find the whole thing stupid. Having a media battle over 80 houses, saying they will install FTTC when my exchange is serving 21k residential properties, and doesn't have it.

One thing I just noticed on samknows is that they used to have estimated dates for things on the status page, but it just shows that something is available or not now.

Niall,

Don't get confused between BT who are only offering a move of exchange for £100 but staying with copper, and Rutland who are installing the FTTC solution at the expense of the community (or in this case the Welsh Assembly through a £1,000 per household grant).

[pctech]

Reducing the length of the copper loop is always a good idea.

If you want to work from home you need a bit quicker than 8 meg if you are you working on applications hosted on a LAN.

[Rik]

But 3.5M is perfectly adequate for the forum.

[pctech]

They are Niall, best thing the ConDems could do is force a hand over of the infrastructure which should never have gone into private hands anyway.

[pctech]

But 3.5M is perfectly adequate for the forum.

It is, as is 1.9 but maybe not so good for a remote desktop protocol session.

[Rik]

Luckily, I'm past all that stuff, Mitch.

[kinmel]

They are Niall, best thing the ConDems could do is force a hand over of the infrastructure which should never have gone into private hands anyway.

Those that think that privatisation of the telephone network was a " bad thing " simply do not remember how it was before then.

Up to 6 month wait for a phone line, shared lines, no choice of handset, "all lines are busy, please try again later" and having to book in advance for international calls.

Most of BT's problems now are because the old mindset still exists within BT.

[Rik]

Transatlantic calls that cost £5 for 3 minutes in the 50s...

[pctech]

I was 2 when BT was privatised so you are right Alan I don't remember.  

Not quite sure how a shared line would work but I have a funny sketch forming in my head.

My beef is that instead of wasting money on things like the Millennium Dome the Government should have retained control of the infrastructure and rolled out fibre which would have been better than DSL which would have a positive impact on the economy.

[Rik]

With shared lines, you had a button on the phone to connect to the line, Mitch. If the other sharer was already using it, you just had to wait.

[pctech]

My grandparents' phone must have been high tech then as it just had a rotary dial.

[Rik]

Ours did too - used to wear my fingers out on those things.

[pctech]

It was only replaced in 1995 when they needed an answerphone.

[Rik]

My parents moved to the Trimphone in the 60s. I hated that noise.

[pctech]

Thats one ugly phone.

[Rik]

It was, but very trendy at the time.

[Glenn]

And collectable now.

[Rik]

Inevitably. Ours was a ghastly two-shade green.

[Ray]

Ours did too - used to wear my fingers out on those things.

Even worse when you had to crank the handle on them as well, Rik.  

[Ray]

Inevitably. Ours was a ghastly two-shade green.

Ours was 2 shades of grey, the ringtone on them was enough to drive you up the wall.

[pctech]

Does this bring back memories Rik

[Rik]

Even worse when you had to crank the handle on them as well, Rik.  

This is true. Plus all that dialling 100 to make a call...

[Rik]

Does this bring back memories Rik

[Rik]

Ours was 2 shades of grey, the ringtone on them was enough to drive you up the wall.

It did. My mental health has never been good since.

[pctech]

As my job revolves around answering a phone I let the answerphone get it if noone else does at home.

[Rik]

Most calls are for Sue anyway...

[Ray]

Does this bring back memories Rik

no!! nearly gave me heart failure everytime it rang as well.

[pctech]

Good job modern phones don't use bells anymore.

[Rik]

The Trimphone was the first 'warble' phone, Mitch. There were many reports of birds learning to mimic them.

[pctech]

 

Now they mimic Mobiles

[Rik]

I must start playing the local bird population some decent Scottish tunes.

[Glenn]

Don't scare them off. 

[pctech]

Pipes and drums of the Scots Dragoon Guards would be a good start.

[Rik]

Don't scare them off. 

They'll love them as they are all in the pentatonic scale.

[Rik]

Pipes and drums of the Scots Dragoon Guards would be a good start.

I'll take them straight to Simon Fraser and see if they can cope.

[Glenn]

They'll love them as they are all in the pentatonic scale.

You may attact the Common Potoo.

[Rik]

All we get round here is the common poo.

[pctech]

'tis true.

[Rik]

A poet.

[kinmel]

In 1975 I was "allowed" two push button Trimphones, two tone green of course.

Everyone who saw them were sooooooooooo jealous

[Glenn]

You lucky, lucky b*****d, Alan. Proper little BT's pet. 

[kinmel]

You lucky, lucky b*****d, Alan. Proper little BT's pet.  

It's all about who you know  

I had started with the rotary trimphones, but they were too light and moved all over the place when you tried to dial

[Rik]

And blutack hadn't been invented.

[trophymick]

With shared lines, you had a button on the phone to connect to the line, Mitch. If the other sharer was already using it, you just had to wait.

I think it was commonly known as a 'party line' for some obscure reason.

[Rik]

It was, Mick, I think the language came from the term used by operators, 'we have the other party on the line'. Never heard one champagne cork myself.

[Gary]

I would love a Trimphone now, they did a high tech version with buttons, but as it was analogue not digital you still had to wait for the outgoing connection so it took just as long as the dial version no matter how fast you pressed the buttons 

[kinmel]

I would love a Trimphone now, they did a high tech version with buttons, but as it was analogue not digital you still had to wait for the outgoing connection so it took just as long as the dial version no matter how fast you pressed the buttons 

But the phone stayed still when you pressed a button, to use the dial you had to hold the phone base still with your other hand.

[Gary]

But the phone stayed still when you pressed a button, to use the dial you had to hold the phone base still with your other hand.

ahh the joys of form over function, and how I used to love crossed lines, a real thing of the past now

[Rik]

But still useful as a way of getting a new exchange pair.