On behalf of my daughter, what's with all the disconnections?

[annc]

As a moving present I set up, 6 months ago,  and pay the monthly subscription for my daughter's IDNET service.  I had heard that IDNET were good and was thinking of migrating myself.  For the past 3-4 weeks she has been experiencing frequent disconnections and is just told to reboot her router which doesn't help.  Wondered if anyone can come up with an answer to this.  I am posting on this forum for her as she only has a hotmail e-mail address and so can't register.  I have been holding on to the support line now for 15 minutes to ask for their help for her - good heavens - glad I didn't take the plunge and move here.

[Rik]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

If your daughter signs up for a free idnet.com address, she'll have no trouble getting in, otherwise, PM me and I'll give you an email address to contact me on.

If she's having disconnections, it's a local problem between her router and the exchange, including all wiring, hers and BT's. Sorry, long list of questions:

Make and model of router
Is it connected to the master socket or an extension
What other devices are on the line
If she dials 17070 and selects option 2, does she hear any crackling
Can you get the downstream sync speed, noise margin and attenuation from her router?

[Rik]

Oh, and I'm queuing too, the support team work staggered hours, so there will only be one person on right now.

[annc]

I managed to get through eventually.  Was told that it was something plugged into her phone socket causing the problem.  The only thing plugged into the socket however, is the filter and router that IDNET supplied.  I also got her phone line installed by IDNET and pay the monthly subscription for this, they were put in by the technician who set up the phone line as there wasn't a line previously in her flat.  However, she doesn't have a land line phone as she always uses her mobile.  I have told her to phone IDNET but doubt she will get through tonight.  She has no internet at all despite rebooting the router.  The router is only 6 months old - not sure what make IDNET supply and can't say I looked while I was last there.

[annc]

Sorry - should have said that router is plugged into the master socket.

[Simon]

It's usually a Netgear.

[Rik]

Sorry - should have said that router is plugged into the master socket.

Thanks for that. How long is the lead from the master socket to the router?

[annc]

Hi Ric, thanks for your help - the router is on a small table directly in front of the master socket  - so I would say 18inches-2ft at most.

[Rik]

Using the lead supplied with the router, I presume. The reason IDNet feel there might be another device on the line is that the error count is high. Is you're daughter using a DECT phone, and is the base station near the router?

[.Griff.]

Using the lead supplied with the router, I presume. The reason IDNet feel there might be another device on the line is that the error count is high. Is you're daughter using a DECT phone, and is the base station near the router?

Doesn't look like she uses a landline phone at all -

However, she doesn't have a land line phone as she always uses her mobile.

Does she have Sky? Sky boxes can cause all sorts of problems if they're not filtered properly.

[Rik]

Doesn't look like she uses a landline phone at all -

Well spotted, Griff, I'm juggling with a post at TB right now, so am more distracted than usual. 

[annc]

Hi Griff and Rick - My daughter doesn't have any land line phone of any description at all and she doesn't have Sky - nothing but the router and filter.  She has a laptop which is connected wirelessly.  Her problems began about 3-4 weeks ago, all was well until then.  She has an Orange network mobile phone but I don't think that should cause any interference.

[.Griff.]

When you say she's experiencing disconnections do you mean loss of sync or periods/problems where she cannot access websites?

Can she try connecting the laptop via ethernet, temporarily, to cancel out any problems that may be caused by wireless and seeing if that improves things?

Finally does she have a spare filter she can try? Microfilters can, and do, fail from time to time.

[Rik]

Can she lay her hands on a battery-powered MW radio? If so, de-tune it till she only has 'hiss', then move around the area of the phone line and router, if the noise increases, she has something electrical causing interference.

Routers can turn faulty, is there anyone she could borrow a 'known' good router from to see if it helps.

If you can dig out the router stats, it would help us a lot. Also the 17070 quiet line test.

If you can give us a rough location for her, there may be a member willing and able to get to her to try and help.

Plus what Griff says.

[annc]

Sorry Rik - can't give you the router stats as she doesn't know where to find them and can't do the quiet line test because no phone.  She couldn't get through to support today so is going to try tomorrow after work.  In the meantime, she moved to a new job in Horsham 6 months ago and doesn't know anyone she could borrow a router from.  I think that this is one that support is going to have to sort out.  It also seems that it is very likely the router is at fault unless there are BT exchange problems.

Must admit, a couple of years ago I had a similar problem.  My then ISP blamed it on everything but the kitchen sink and had me jumping through hoops, eventually turned out to be a  problem at the exchange.  BT billed me for sorting it out!  I had to complain and get the money refunded - Grrrr.

(Should add that I am in East Kent - so quite a distance away from her).

[Rik]

I don't think we have anyone in the Horsham area Ann, sorry. Would your daughter feel confident at doing a factory reset of the router? (It involves a paper clip and then re-entering the IDNet login information).

The router stats can be obtained by typing http://192.168.0.1 into the browser address bar
> Router Status
> "Show Statistics" Button

alternatively click this link --> Show Statistics.

Default username = admin, password = password (This is normally reset by IDNet to the IDNet username and password.)

[annc]

Hi - I am visiting my daughter today and have found that her connection is dropping fairly frequently.  These are her results from a recent speedtest

I contacted IDNET and they suggested it must be a faulty router and are sending her a 'test' router to try.  This seems to me to be a bit deeper than a router fault.  Would a faulty router cause such slow speeds?  I think this is either a problem with IDNET or BT.  I was very surprised that, unlike other ISP's I have had experience of, techinical support at IDNET did not ask for any BT speedtests, or request any information at all, just blaming everything on equipment (initially that she must have something else plugged in to the socket which she doesn't) 

Yesterday they had her remove the face plate of the phone socket and plug directly into it - this has made no difference whatsoever.  I am paying a lot of money for this connection for my daughter.  IDNET set everything up from setting up the phone line to initiating her broadband, and supplying the router.  So far I am not impressed at all.

[Simon]

This could be a fault at the exchange, somewhere along the line, or with the equipment.  IDNet are trying to eliminate the equipment by sending a test router, and getting her to use the test socket, otherwise, calling BT out may result in a £160 charge if the fault is found to be internal.  Unfortunately, it's a question of going through the motions.

[annc]

Hi - I have just run a BT speedtest on her line - the results are interesting:

download speed 965 kps
acceptable speed 400-2000kps

DSL Connection rate 7616 down
448 up
IP profile for line is 2000kps

Why oh why is the IP profile only 2000kps??

So router problem?  I think this is down to IDNET or BT

[Simon]

As I understand it (and I'm no expert), the 7616 is what IDNet are delivering to the exchange.  The fact that the profile is low, indicates a problem between your daughter and the exchange, or at the exchange itself.  2000 is sometimes indicative of a 'stuck' profile, but I'm not sure if that's the case here.  Suggest you pass the BT speedtest results on to IDNet, which may help them diagnose the problem.

[esh]

I think the next step is IDNet will request BT "up" the profile (to clear it if it got stuck), then if it goes down again the problem is almost certainly your end, be it router or wiring or even interference.

[Rik]

So router problem?  I think this is down to IDNET or BT

BT, Ann. The local loop connection, as it's known, is entirely a matter between the end user's equipment and the exchange. It can be caused by a flaky router, interference or poor internal phone wiring, a cable fault or an equipment fault at the exchange. It's all happening before your daughter reaches the IDNet network.

My best guess, based on what you say, is that the connection has been dropping frequently, and this has depressed the profile, limiting speed throughput.

What IDNet are getting you to do is to eliminate anything local being the problem. If they call a BT engineer out for you, he will plug his laptop into the test socket and, if he gets an acceptable result, will send you a bill for £160+. The elimination testing, tedious as it may seem, is done to protect you from incurring that charge.

[foreversummer]

Hi Ann

I'm pretty much in the same situation as your daughter.  Been with IDNet since mid-August and had although I had very good speeds initially suffered repeated disconnections.  I was in the test socket last week but instead of my speeds rising, unfortunately they dropped even lower. My profile has now dropped to an all time low of 2000 and I'm getting almost exactly the speeds on speedtest.net that your daughter is getting.

Unlike your daughter I have several phone sockets around the house.  When my router is connected I get a hissing noise on all my telephones.  I've now tried plugging in my old Sky router and although it is not possible to reconfigure (Sky have locked it) I still get the same noise on my phones (although did not have it before).

In desperation, and because BT hold everyone to ransom with their £160 fee, I've have a local telecom engineer coming on Saturday to check all my internal wiring.  Obviously, this is something that you do not need to do as your daughter's set-up is so straight-forward.  For me, I am hoping that he does find something that is causing the problem so it can be sorted my end but I'm not convinced.

I will of course report back to let you know how it goes.

Foreversummer

[Rik]

I take it you have tried an alternative filter?

[foreversummer]

Hi Rik

I've replaced all my filters, but if Ann's daughter hasn't she should give it a try.

Foreversummer

[Rik]

Mmm. That's the most usual cause of noise breakthrough. Having your wiring looked at is the next logical step, unfortunately. Keep us osted and, if we can do anything to help, let us know.

[foreversummer]

What is still don't understand though Rik is why my speeds did not increase in the test socket.  I read reports of people seeing immediate increases in speed and that certainly did not happen for me.  My speeds did gradually come up again but as soon as they did the disconnections started again whilst still in the test socket.  I thought that with my internal wiring disconnected things should have been pretty stable.

Now with my profile at 2000 I still had one disconnection last evening.

I will certainly be interesting to see what happens on Saturday.

Foreversummer

[Rik]

You're currently on a 4.5M profile as the profile catches up with the sync speed. With an 8db attenuation, you should eventually move to a full 8182 sync, so support have reset your target noise margin back down to 6db to achieve this. Assuming you are using the test socket, this does firmly point the finger at your internal wiring.

[foreversummer]

Hi Rik

Am I?  But I'm not in the test socket any more.  I came out again on Monday so now I'm hooked up again to my internal wiring.

Foreversummer

[Rik]

Odd, the line seemed to improve when you went to the test socket. Can you run a BT speedtest for me, please, and post the results.

[foreversummer]

Hi Rik

Did one less than an hour ago so won't let me unfortunately.  The IP profile was 2000 I know, plus the measured speed was 1.80.  Didn't take a note of all the other bits and pieces.

Just done a test on speedtest.net and am getting 1.96 mbps up, 50 mbps down and 81 ping.  (I still have worked out how to copy and paste the little blue box.

Foreversummer

PS I'm sorry, didn't want to hijack Ann's thread, could just sympathize with the loss of speed her daughter was having.

[Rik]

Can you go back to the test socket and see if things improve?

[annc]

I spoke to IDNET this morning.  As my daughter is going on holiday on Saturday they said they will send the test router out when she returns.  We can then eliminate (or not) this factor.

When my daughter moved into her flat 5 months ago, we found that, although there was wiring for a phone, the phone line had never been activated.  I did this though IDNET and I pay them the monthly rental for the phone line.  When the (BT?) engineer set everything up, he disconnected the socket that was there in the living room and put a new one in the hall.  So, if there is a problem with the internal wiring it is down to whoever did this work (I suspect it must have been BT, but don't know who IDNET use.  Whoever did this work would have to be the body responsible for any wiring fault, not my daughter - no way she could be held to pay £160.  She didn't even plug the router in, the engineer did!  (There must be some kind of guarantee on such work I would have thought?)

This is why I am saying that any fault, other than the router, is down to IDNET or BT!

PS I purchased the router from IDNET as well - so new netgear 5 months old now.

[annc]

Have found out that as it was BT that moved her master socket, they are responsible (for the master socket and anything up to it).  That is a bit of a relief 

[esh]

Yes it will be BT. As Rik says, IDNet can only operate *from* the exchange, not directly to your house, so anything there is good old BT's regime.

[Rik]

If you could get your daughter to join, Ann, she just needs to setup an email address from within her customer portal,  we could do more to help her as I could then identify her to support (using her IP address, thus without knowing anything about her, including her name if she doesn't want to use it), and work with them towards a speedy solution.

I can confirm that BT Openreach will have done the wiring, they are the only people legally allowed to. IDNet will chase them hard for you if needs be, but these days it's important to establish there's nothing wrong on the customer's side of the test socket, hence the loan of the router.