Is bt speedtester totally broken?

[SSK]

Just had a reply from IDNet support:
QUOTE
BT were carrying out work on the BT
speedtester however the changes they have implemented are working fine
for customers using the test tool at the moment. The relevant part of
your test is the throughput rate of which is reporting correctly.
UNQUOTE

I sent figures with my email to IDNet support, showing that the tester was still not working properly as recently as about 1.5 hours ago. Despite those numbers, they think it's still working fine as long as throughput is reorted correctly, even though connection rate figures are meaningless. If it doesn't matter that the connection rate and profile figures are useless, why bother having them as part of the test report?

So far I've been with IDNet for only 10 days and after 4 emails to them (one of which never received any response at all) I'm already disappointed with the standard of support. Thank heavens it's only a 1 month contract!

Sean

[Rik]

I think there's been a breakdown in communication. What IDNet were trying to tell you was that the important figure in your test results was the throughput. That bit of the tester is working fine. The other aspects of the tester have been reported to BT, and IDNet will keep an eye on them till they're fixed. The email to which they did not respond was one reporting speed during a period when they had asked you to monitor your speeds for 72 hours, so it was just added to the 'evidence' pile that was collected during that time as they could make no useful reply until they had all the data. The major problem with your connection is the noise margin, and whilst they have had the banding removed from your profile, they can't do anything to reset the margin, the system will decide when and if it's ready to reduce it.

[SSK]

Hi Rik,

Thanks for your input and for helping to sort out the communication breakdown.

I think there's been a breakdown in communication. What IDNet were trying to tell you was that the important figure in your test results was the throughput. That bit of the tester is working fine.

IDNet no doubt have a means of knowing that the throughput part of the test result is indeed correct, but I don't. When I do a test and find some of the results are wrong, how do *I* know that the throughput part of the test is accurate? If I know that I can't trust some results (connection rate), how can I trust the others (throughput)?

I realise the problem with the tester isn't the fault of IDNet, but as long as the consumer (eg me) can't have any way of knowing what part of the test can be trusted, it seems disingenuous to claim it is 'fine'.

The email to which they did not respond was one reporting speed during a period when they had asked you to monitor your speeds for 72 hours, so it was just added to the 'evidence' pile that was collected during that time as they could make no useful reply until they had all the data.

I run my own business and always acknowledge receipt of an email from one of my customers even if I can't do anything to action it at the time. If I don't respond how do they know if I've received it? How long does it take to write something like:  "Thank you for your email. Unfortunately we cannot do anything until at least 72 hours of data have been collected."? It just seems like basic customer relations to me.  

The major problem with your connection is the noise margin, and whilst they have had the banding removed from your profile, they can't do anything to reset the margin, the system will decide when and if it's ready to reduce it.

As I'd sent an email asking for the banding to be removed, how long would it have taken for someone to send a short email to tell me when it had actually been removed? Again, to me it would seem to be basic customer relations - a little time and consideration makes a huge difference to the customer's perception of the company.

BTW - Some posts on uk.telecom.broadband have indicated that even when noise problems have been fixed it can take months (if at all) for the automated system to bring down the SNR and that ISPs can ask BT to reset it. Are those post incorrect?

Asuming no noise problems on my line, could you guesstimate how long it might take for the automated system to return the SNR to what it was before whatever mysterious 'event' triggered the banding?

I've had an excellent stable ADSL line for several years (6-7 dB SNR and loop att around 25-29 dB) and for the first 12 hours or so on ADSL2+ I had:-
Up Speed   1152000
Down Speed   18325000
SNR Margin   6
Loop Att.   27

So it's rather surprising and very disappointing to find that that suddenly overnight my line became so bad that it had to have first a banded profile and now an indefinite time on a much higher SNR.

Thanks again,

Sean
PS
After writing the above I just had an email from support saying thatbthey have asked BT to restart the training period so that within that period the SNR will be reset to 6 dB.
Thank youu to IDNet support!

[MisterW]

I think they're tweaking it, Zap

I think they need a MUCH MUCH bigger hammer

[Rik]

IDNet no doubt have a means of knowing that the throughput part of the test result is indeed correct, but I don't. When I do a test and find some of the results are wrong, how do *I* know that the throughput part of the test is accurate? If I know that I can't trust some results (connection rate), how can I trust the others (throughput)?

You don't, tbh, all you can then do is check against other results and see if there's a significant variation. The best method is to download a largeish file from a 'known good' server.

I realise the problem with the tester isn't the fault of IDNet, but as long as the consumer (eg me) can't have any way of knowing what part of the test can be trusted, it seems disingenuous to claim it is 'fine'.

They're only saying your throughput is OK from the test, they've already escalated the rest of the speedtester issues to BT.

It just seems like basic customer relations to me.

I'm not really in a position to comment, but I was left with the impression you knew that they needed the 72 hours to pass, so the email was just added to your ticket without reply.

As I'd sent an email asking for the banding to be removed, how long would it have taken for someone to send a short email to tell me when it had actually been removed? Again, to me it would seem to be basic customer relations - a little time and consideration makes a huge difference to the customer's perception of the company.

Unbanding is handled by BT and you will generally know before IDNet do when it's been done.

BTW - Some posts on uk.telecom.broadband have indicated that even when noise problems have been fixed it can take months (if at all) for the automated system to bring down the SNR and that ISPs can ask BT to reset it. Are those post incorrect?

As I understand it, Max connections can be reset but WBC/21CN cannot, the DLM is different (and more sensitive). That will be changing, as it did for Max, and ISPs will be able to reset parameters themselves.

Asuming no noise problems on my line, could you guesstimate how long it might take for the automated system to return the SNR to what it was before whatever mysterious 'event' triggered the banding?

About six weeks, if the line maintains sync and has no errors. Or they can be sneaky.

So it's rather surprising and very disappointing to find that that suddenly overnight my line became so bad that it had to have first a banded profile and now an indefinite time on a much higher SNR.

I quite understand your frustration, having been on the end of this situation myself. Unfortunately, BT are judge, jury and executioner and Ofcom shows no interest in making them improve their systems.

[Bill]

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes. seed the teaboy put into the random number generator 

[Rik]

 

[SSK]

Thanks, Rik, for taking the time to explain things.

Apologies if I came across as being rather strident. I just felt frustrated and powerless with the situation apparently just being left in the hands of an uncaring BT.

Certainly there seems to have been misunderstandings between support and myself, perhaps partly because they thought I knew more than I actually did about how the system works. I'm a bit shocked (but not surprised) that BT (in their arrogance) don't tell the ISP when they have unbanded a profile.

Anyway, support managed to get BT to restart the 10 day training period about 14 hours ago and the resulting resync immediately gave these router stats
Down speed  19544332
SNR  5
Loop Att 23

The latest stats this morning show
Down speed  19544332
SNR  6
Loop Att 23

So unlike the first night after the upgrade to ADSL2+, it has remained stable and hopefully (fingers crossed, touch wood, etc) it will continue to do so.

As expected, the BT speedtester still gives some silly numbers for connection rate...
Download speed - 17681 Kbps
Connection rate - 2387 Kbps

Anyone want to place bets on how long it will take BT to fix the tester? 

Thanks again,

Sean

[Rik]

My money's on 2012. Glad things have improved, Sean.

[Lance]

Is that so we can speedtest when the Olympics slows everything down? 

[Rik]

Many a true word spoken in jest, Lance...

[SSK]

I'm very happy with the situation as regards my connection now, but regarding bt tester, at the moment it looks like it can't even get the speed right... it seems to be considerably underestimating it.  So now I can't rely on the bt tester even for basic throughput speeds.

bt tester says 10791 Kbps
namesco says 15422 Kbps
speedtest.net says 1599 Kbps

bt tester also says the connection rate is 8125 Kbps

Regarding testing large files from a reliable server - can anyone recommend such a server?

Thanks,

Sean

[Baz]

so its the throughput rate that is correct eh?

Download speed achieved during the test was - 3611 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 100-500 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :572 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 444 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 500 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 5.42:32.6:61.98 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

   Upload Speed
   0 Kbps
   
0 Kbps   444 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 444 Kbps


mines looking great today then


one another tester I just got 7000+ 

[Rik]

Regarding testing large files from a reliable server - can anyone recommend such a server?

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/download/, Sean.

[Rik]

one another tester I just got 7000+ 

Shows you how borked the tester is, Baz.

[Baz]

 

indeed.meant to say yesterday Rik, I like that word...borked.

Havent heard it for ages   

[Rik]

I just feel it fits the tester, Baz.

[gyruss]

I quite like fubar too

[Rik]

 

[Baz]

I quite like fubar too

well we could say that about the tester of late  



I use a  media player called Foobar  

[SSK]

Sorry if I seem to be going on about this, but it occurs to me...
AIUI the IP profile is determined by the connection rate. So if the BT tester gives the wrong connection rate, doesn't that mean people could end up with a totally inappropriate IP profile?

For example, if my router says I'm syncing at 19544 Kbps the bt tester says connection rate is 3695 Kbps, (tonight's actual numbers) will the system put me onto a much too low IP profile?

Or does the connection rate reported by the bt speedtester not have anything to do with the rate that the system uses to calculate IP profile?

Kit

[tobykim]

I think they're tweaking it, Zap

They've been tweaking it for months for me, luckily I don't have any problems. I've tempted fate now haven't I 

[Rik]

Yes. 

[Rik]

Or does the connection rate reported by the bt speedtester not have anything to do with the rate that the system uses to calculate IP profile?

To judge by recent results, Kit, the information is coming from different parts of the system.

[SSK]

Just in case anyone is wondering how Sean became Kit...
No it's not a multiple personality disorder.
Kit is the nickname my family have for me and I'd just written an email to my brother so my brain was still in 'family' mode.

Apologies for any confusion.

Sean