2-4Mbps speed at peak-time

[Lance]

ive been informed by a BTo engineer that exchange backhaul congestion is actually rare and its usually down to the ISP not buying enough 155Mbit or 622Mbit pipes to feed their datacenter - could it be that IDnet are due to light another segment? of course this doesnt rule out other problems, like down servers somewhere or such, broken lines in the network causing congestion on re-route of traffic

It seems the BT engineer is mis-informed. We've seen plenty of examples on here of exchange congestion (included VP congestion).

The 155mb and 622mb centrals are old and out of date. IDNet, I think I remember, had theirs turned off about a year ago and they are now on 1gbps links, with automatic fail-over and load balancing. With the old centrals, it used to take ages to get new capacity but with the new links, capactity can be increased really quickly.

[pctech]

The engineer is referring to the BT Central feeds from 20CN.

Links from 21CN are 1 Gbps each.

[Rik]

ive been informed by a BTo engineer that exchange backhaul congestion is actually rare and its usually down to the ISP not buying enough 155Mbit or 622Mbit pipes to feed their datacenter - could it be that IDnet are due to light another segment? of course this doesnt rule out other problems, like down servers somewhere or such, broken lines in the network causing congestion on re-route of traffic

Your BT engineer is referring to centrals, the old 20CN network. IDNet have been exclusively on the 21CN (gigabit) hostlink for about a year. That has ample headroom and IDNet add to its capacity for events like the world cup. (Hostlinks can be upgrade for 3 months at a time, in just a few days, unlike centrals which took months to install and had a 12 month contract attached.)

that site above (DSLzoneUK) is not run by an ISP - its an open forum for DSL users to go with problems with there broadband connections - it has a list of all ISPs and only the users of that ISP can rate as its detected from IP address - you CAN NOT rate a different ISP other than your own - therefore those remarks will be from valid customers - what they say is another matter, im not complaining about the customer service and knew it was like that before we signed up, im/were not having a mad fit like some of those that do and quite happy to use it as-is until it can be looked at.

The site was founded by the now owner of ADSL24, and I've seen comments made by ex-customers. Perhaps he has tightened up in this respect?

again, my dad is only running tests on the hour to see whats happening because he is having few issues since moving to IDnet - he moved and paid more so he could get a faster connection with consistently faster speeds - if IDnet cant supply this then he would be better of paying HALF the cost for a lesser ISP who would also suffer from supposed "exchange congestion" - he doesnt sit there clicking RUN TEST , test after test and gett anoyed when theres a few Kbps difference - where talking about upto 5Mbps drop in speed at peak times - this isnt what we hoped for, he may aswell get 8Mb off plusnet for £6.49 and get same speeds and save £10 month on charges - this is the point im trying to make but Ive a feeling Im just annoying people by discussing it - I hope not, and I think its valid to 'complain' or 'discuss' if your internet slows down by that much and your paying MORE for it not too...?

We're doing our best to tell you the situation as we know is, Snadge, If you prefer to listen to others, it's your prerogative. I agree with you, if IDNet can't get a better result for your dad, then he may just as well pay less. The forum is here for discussion, but there's not much more we can say to you than we already have.

[pctech]

I would add that the capped 1 and 2 Meg prducts have been around for quite some time and its possible BT may phase them out when the 21CN roll out is complete.

[Gary]

I would add that the capped 1 and 2 Meg prducts have been around for quite some time and its possible BT may phase them out when the 21CN roll out is complete.

Will that ever happen? I wonder as I wonder if  BT will ever update 100% of the network? We have no date for WBC at all, and all the exchanges surrounding us have now been upgraded, including Chichester, which is only 4 miles away, so it seems exchanges with a relatively small number residents and businesses may not be upgraded at all as its not financially worth it, I hope that is not the case but I would not be surprised. 

[Rik]

f Rutland Telecom takes off, that may change rapidly, Gary, and they'll be offering to move you to an activated exchange.

[Gary]

f Rutland Telecom takes off, that may change rapidly, Gary, and they'll be offering to move you to an activated exchange.

I hope they do, the Kijoma wifi network is like getting on a merry go round at full speed, impossible it seems, Rik. It would be great to have, if nothing else a greater upload speed. I'll keep everything  that Rutland works out.

[Rik]

Me too, Gary, BT need some genuine competition.

[pctech]

Will that ever happen? I wonder as I wonder if  BT will ever update 100% of the network? We have no date for WBC at all, and all the exchanges surrounding us have now been upgraded, including Chichester, which is only 4 miles away, so it seems exchanges with a relatively small number residents and businesses may not be upgraded at all as its not financially worth it, I hope that is not the case but I would not be surprised. 

Primary idea behind 21CN as I understand it was to get all services on one network with equipment supplied by specific vendors to make it easier to manage instead of it being a patchwork.

[Gary]

Primary idea behind 21CN as I understand it was to get all services on one network with equipment supplied by specific vendors to make it easier to manage instead of it being a patchwork.

I think that was the idea, but  75% by 2011 depending on demand worries me, well the depends on demand bit does, as if its not there, as in a small village why do it at all if its not commercially worth it. I do think BT needs some genuine competition as Rik was saying, other wise low speeds in rural area's may never increase or small exchanges may slip though the net. 

[davej99]

I wonder if the following speculation is of help here.

Perhaps Balmacara "Exchange" is a bit of misnomer. With only 145 subscribers, along with Stromeferry, 78, Dornie, 228, Glenelg, 209 and Glenshiel, 178, it is a shack that passes for a 20CN network hub in the Highlands. Roll in Plockton, 258 and Kyle with a whopping 660, you have 1856 subscribers over roughly 200 square miles, and this is a popular locale. This kind of network is typical of most of rural Scotland. So my speculation is that the cost of getting connected to backhaul is high and as a result the capacity of the links employed are inadequate. ADSL+ in many locations is relatively new, 21CN is a distant dream and LLU is a nonstarter. I have often heard the the story in the area that yes we are connected but the speeds are rubbish even close to the "exchange".

Snadge, I think the evidence is that IDNET do not have a problem with capacity and my speculation is that beautiful Lochalsh is served lamentably by BT with a local infrastructure that cannot carry the traffic. It's a bit like the road over to Glenelg, a century or so past its sell by date. You can change the coach driver but the ride is still rubbish.

I would talk to others in the area and see if the problem you are seeing is common to the network rather than to an individual ISP and seek help from IDNET with diagnostics. After that its down to political activism to get BT to serve rural Scotland as well as it does the south. 

[Rik]

I agree with you, Dave, especially about the road.

[snadge]

I wonder if the following speculation is of help here.

Perhaps Balmacara "Exchange" is a bit of misnomer. With only 145 subscribers, along with Stromeferry, 78, Dornie, 228, Glenelg, 209 and Glenshiel, 178, it is a shack that passes for a 20CN network hub in the Highlands. Roll in Plockton, 258 and Kyle with a whopping 660, you have 1856 subscribers over roughly 200 square miles, and this is a popular locale. This kind of network is typical of most of rural Scotland. So my speculation is that the cost of getting connected to backhaul is high and as a result the capacity of the links employed are inadequate. ADSL+ in many locations is relatively new, 21CN is a distant dream and LLU is a nonstarter. I have often heard the the story in the area that yes we are connected but the speeds are rubbish even close to the "exchange".

Snadge, I think the evidence is that IDNET do not have a problem with capacity and my speculation is that beautiful Lochalsh is served lamentably by BT with a local infrastructure that cannot carry the traffic. It's a bit like the road over to Glenelg, a century or so past its sell by date. You can change the coach driver but the ride is still rubbish.

I would talk to others in the area and see if the problem you are seeing is common to the network rather than to an individual ISP and seek help from IDNET with diagnostics. After that its down to political activism to get BT to serve rural Scotland as well as it does the south. 

well done on gathering that bit of info dave - i see your point, its probably true -  i will show my dad WHO by the way has gone and ordered a MAC code without telling me he was going to, since he has done support have failed to reply to my email today - just cos he has MAC doesnt mean he will move... he had 3 off AOL before he actually made the jump.

anyway, the locals are all with BT because most of them have family that work for BT and he spoke to one about a year ago who got 0.3Mbps but BT is like that NO MATTER where you are IMHO on ADSLmax - another is on SKY on the PLOCKTON exchange (IPstream) and he told my dad he gets full 8Mb speed but I doubt the legitimacy of his claim because he said 8.1Mb to my dad well we all know thats impossible on IPstream , my dad said he not type to lie and probs got mixed up

at end of the day its up to my dad and Im just trying  to get help with his line - he may not change ISP but he is aware that NewNet are same price and same monthly contracts and i think that would be his next "port-of-call" should he leave IDnet

I wont be surprised if the current facts by dave change my dads mind - or at least DO when NewNet turns out to be the same!!

thanks for your help guys...

[Steve]

He may be lucky if he moves to another ISP but only if he ends up on a less congested VP, he may of course stay on the same one, you should get simliar performance from Newnet,AAISP and Zen it just depends which package suits ones needs.

[snadge]

He may be lucky if he moves to another ISP but only if he ends up on a less congested VP, he may of course stay on the same one, you should get simliar performance from Newnet,AAISP and Zen it just depends which package suits ones needs.

OK thanks steve...

[pctech]

If you are adamant about moving from IDNet I can definitely recommend Zen (I use them for BB because of their capping and like IDNet the fact they are a business provider who do provide excellent support)

You can switch between packages without charge, Newnet will charge you about £12.95 to do this but as has been said there is no guarantee this will correct the issue.

[Lance]

he told my dad he gets full 8Mb speed but I doubt the legitimacy of his claim because he said 8.1Mb to my dad well we all know thats impossible on IPstream , my dad said he not type to lie and probs got mixed up

The max sync on Max is 8128 which gives a profile of 7150. Therefore, I expect his friend was talking about sync.

[pctech]

The reason you'll only get 7150 is the rest of the bandwidth is taken up with headers for the various layers such as ATM.

[Lance]

I disagree. Whist overheads play their part, they come out of your profile ie the 7150 profile gives max throughput of somewhere around 6950-7050. This is evidenced as well with LLU ISPs who don't have profiles.

[davej99]

anyway, the locals are all with BT because most of them have family that work for BT and he spoke to one about a year ago who got 0.3Mbps but BT is like that NO MATTER where you are IMHO on ADSLmax - another is on SKY on the PLOCKTON exchange (IPstream) and he told my dad he gets full 8Mb speed but I doubt the legitimacy of his claim because he said 8.1Mb to my dad well we all know thats impossible on IPstream , my dad said he not type to lie and probs got mixed up
thanks for your help guys...

None of the "exchanges" I mentioned, and I will guess any west of Inverness, have any LLU providers. They are on BT 20CN IPstream or nothing, so there is no choice. The general opinion seems to be that the big providers like Virgin, Sky, TalkTalk/AOL offer a poor service over BT as a result of throttling and insufficient capacity in their private networks. The general opinion is also that the quality providers like IDNET and ZEN have more than adequate private networks and do not in themselves limit the speeds customers see. In the latter case speeds are only limited by line length and quality from the exchange, or by local congestion in the BT network. If that problem cannot be resolved by an IDNET or a Zen working with BT, then it probably is not fixable by any ISP and you are stuck with it till BT address their network. In this sense if IDNET can give you some feed back on the probable cause, Dad could be spared the inconvenience of moving for no gain and, if to an ISP that throttles, a long contract and an inferior service.

I would see if IDNET can give you a reply to both retain a customer and save dissapointment. But, be patient, IDNET often have to wait for BT. I would keep logging BT speed test at the best and worst times of day to provide diagnostic data. It is a good idea to use thinkbroadband for an interim estimate of speed and then BT to confirm it. This works round the one hour BT test lockout.

[Rik]

Sound advice, Dave.

[davej99]

Sound advice, Dave.

Do not usually get involved in problems which our experts deal with better. It just happens I was in Balmacara and North Skye last week and I generally spend a good bit of time in the area. The picture is that broadband there is shocking, not just because of line lengths, you have that in MK, but across the street from the "exchange." My speculation is that a DSLAM in a hen hut is called a broadband service and that onward connection is a bit of coax to the next hen hut and then maybe to a luxury hen hut with a microwave link. In short a joke. We are spending a fortune on really usefull Gaelic media and bilingual roadsigns and nothing on teleworking. Henhuts gu brath!

[Rik]

But, apart from that, BT are doing a bang up job, eh?

[pctech]

I disagree. Whist overheads play their part, they come out of your profile ie the 7150 profile gives max throughput of somewhere around 6950-7050. This is evidenced as well with LLU ISPs who don't have profiles.

You are also forgetting about latency caused by the equipment processing the packets.

[snadge]

The max sync on Max is 8128 which gives a profile of 7150. Therefore, I expect his friend was talking about sync.

no, he wouldnt know what SYNC was if you asked him.

i know theres no LLu up there...

still no reply from IDnet at all??  I think they arent bothering because he went and requested a MAC code - he hasnt run the latency tests for me but says that pages are slower during peak time, when he was with AOL he never got this during peak time - only the drop in speed from 2Mb to 1Mb and YouTUBE would barely work right - latency was still OK though - but I cant be 100% sure as im not at the machine and he hasnt run any tests yet either to test latency during peak time

Oh, and if its IS poor connection from BT to exchanges in scotland - why would they even bother upgrading to ADSLmax? they would just leave the current ADSL system in place would they not? as ADSLmax would have cost lots of money to unbundle for no/little gain in speed? (and we all know what BT are like for penny pinching)

thanks for the advice from you all...



Edit: Personal information removed at the request of Snadge