2-4Mbps speed at peak-time

[snadge]

That's great.

again, thanks for the assistance

were gunna continue to monitor it just incase but i think its gunna be fine

[Rik]

 

[snadge]

well at 9pm after work the speedtest.net site @ XILO.NET was 2.1Mb - he tried a few servers (morecombe and manchester) and al came back 2.2 but BT came back

Download speedachieved during the test was - 4679 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :8128 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 7150 Kbps

so just dont know whats going on?  he seems to think its been like this since the beginning but he only mentioned it AFTER the outtage

he says if BT is right then he's happy
if speedtest is right then he's not

will continue to monitor

[pctech]

From what I've read speedtest is not supposed to be that accurate.

Might be better trying thinkbroadband?

[snadge]

From what I've read speedtest is not supposed to be that accurate.

Might be better trying thinkbroadband?

we tried various testers and all rolled in at extreme different results - he couldnt get on the BT tester initially but when he did it was 4Mbps

do IDnet support not work the weekend?
ive sent them an email to see if BT can tell them more...

[esh]

I find speedtest accurate to within 0.02Mbps measuring the exact output that goes through the router here. I think there is tech support at IDNet at the weekends but they can't do much because BT aren't on duty unless an exchange explodes or something.

[pctech]

I believe IDNet support monitor voicemail and respond to no connection events but BT don't do much unless you have enhanced care.

[Rik]

BT do nothing unless you have enhanced care.

[Rik]

do IDnet support not work the weekend?
ive sent them an email to see if BT can tell them more...

As has been said, Snadge, they'll deal with 'no connection' faults as best they can, but speed issues have to go to a BT team which works 9-5:30, Mon-Fri, so they can do nothing to help at weekends and will deal with your email on Monday.

[snadge]

speeds have been better today/tonight - still a little fluctuation when the evening arrives then drops by 10pm - also speedtest.net gets all stroppy when it gets slow like really bad packet loss I think - it fails to finish or stretches right out  -sometimes BT tester fails to finish

2pm:
Download speedachieved during the test was - 6395 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :8128 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 7150 Kbps

4pm:
Download speedachieved during the test was - 6238 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :8128 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 7150 Kbps

speedtest is milton......7.13

6pm:
Download speedachieved during the test was - 5960 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :8128 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 7150 Kbps
speedtest......milton....7.11

7pm:
Download speedachieved during the test was - 6232 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :8128 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 7150 Kbps

milton.....6.23

8pm:
Download speedachieved during the test was - 4112 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :8128 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 7150 Kbps

milto.....5.07

10pm:
Download speedachieved during the test was - 3257 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :8128 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 7150 Kbps

milton ........2.62

[Rik]

That looks like classic exchange congestion to me.

[snadge]

That looks like classic exchange congestion to me.

yup, but same patterns emerge with ISP congestion too, dont they? how do we know its not the ISPs 'allowed capacity' at the exchange? ...thing is, if ISPs like IDnet, NewNet, Fast etc etc charge that bit extra to pay for more headroom with BT... why should we be experiencing any 'exchange congestion' at all..?  its up to BT then to upgrade the exchange because these ISPs are paying more to ensure the customers GET the bandwidth ...thats what i was led to believe anyway...  is it not upto IDnet to kick BT into check?

- my dads quite happy but it dropped to 2Mb last night and this morning back to 7Mb - i think he is also suffering from Packet-Loss and isnt noticing it because when speeds get quite low the speedtest.net site stops responding and speeds up then slows down and takes an age to finish - BT tester and BBmax tester is fine but BT has timed-out before - BT tester always rolls in 'slightly' lower than other two, I have asked him to to pings through CMD and use pingtest.net to measure packet loss when speeds get low and speedtest.net starts getting scatty - thing is when speedtest.net gets scatty the other two (BT and BBmax) still work OK..?? - its like theres something between his exchange and speedtest servers (all of them too) thats causing this too happen - now when the outtages happened LAGGAN area was affected which is just south of him, im wondering if something is wrong there? - dunno its hard to say and hard to pin point - I also asked him to disable Comodo firewall and speedtests wre coming higher but still under par each time the wall was down - a difference of almost 2Mbps, so ive asked him to uninstall Comodo for now and fall back on windows firewall to ensure a clean test

ive sent emails to support so see what they can do tomorrow - theres no rush like it works just fine (for now - need to find out if any packet loss) - ive explained that its probably exchange specific - the facts stand that even with AOL his 2Mb would slow to 1Mb in evenings JUST like his 7Mb drops to 2-3Mb - so this also points to exchange congestion - but it costs nothing to keep trying monthly contract ISPs until you get one your happy with, while its probably likely he will suffer slow downs with ANY ISP he can only try - it happened to me and was told it was exchange congestion by BT when with Tiscali but when i moved it was fine (actually it was my 3rd ISP cos i was with AOL (slow) TISCALI (slow) ENTANET (fast) - so i went through 2 ISPs that suffered "exchange congestion" before i got one that didnt

see what happens

[Rik]

ISPs don't pay extra for capacity at the exchange, the only way of gaining priority there is to move to a Pro package which does get the priority. The difference between ISPs lays in their own network - can it cope with the demands that their customers are making on it. IDNet have always tried to ensure that theirs can, and have told us, on the rare occasions that it can't, why and what they are doing about it.

I'm not being funny, but is your dad actually using his connection, or does he spend all his time running speed tests? I only ever run one if I think there's something wrong. As has been said, speedtest.net isn't the best site to be using, there are simply too many variables with it. Use the BT site and only the BT site if you want accurate figures. To check for packet loss, run a 'long' ping test, eg ping www.idnet.net -n 100.

The variation between ISPs at a given exchange is often down to a congested VP issue. IDNet will check for that and, if possible get him moved to a different VP.

[snadge]

ISPs don't pay extra for capacity at the exchange, the only way of gaining priority there is to move to a Pro package which does get the priority. The difference between ISPs lays in their own network - can it cope with the demands that their customers are making on it. IDNet have always tried to ensure that theirs can, and have told us, on the rare occasions that it can't, why and what they are doing about it.

I'm not being funny, but is your dad actually using his connection, or does he spend all his time running speed tests? I only ever run one if I think there's something wrong. As has been said, speedtest.net isn't the best site to be using, there are simply too many variables with it. Use the BT site and only the BT site if you want accurate figures. To check for packet loss, run a 'long' ping test, eg ping www.idnet.net -n 100.

The variation between ISPs at a given exchange is often down to a congested VP issue. IDNet will check for that and, if possible get him moved to a different VP.

I will get him to run a long ping and see what it says

he does use the connection, but now, cos theres been sync/speed issues since signing up with IDnet he's running a test every hour to see if these issues are 'fixed' and he is getting the line speed his line is capable of and should get - but normally he only runs test when YouTUBE stops working as it should, he is happy with it but dropping to 2Mb is no good because he was already (and could) pay less to get 2Mb connection (or one that slows to 2Mb)- the reason he paid the "extra" was to get constant faster broadband - but if its going to suffer then he may aswell pay less for a lesser ISP  - see my point? - he doesnt sit the constantly running speedtests...

what is a VP..?

thanks

[Rik]

If BT haven't got the backhaul to the exchange, he might be better off using an LLU provider if there is one Snadge.

A VP is a virtual path, the apparent connection between his router and IDNet. It's not a real, end-to-end, connection, though, but a series of BT networks and routers. Hence, at any exchange, one VP can run hot, while the others have spare capacity. BT can redistribute the load if that's the case.

[snadge]

If BT haven't got the backhaul to the exchange, he might be better off using an LLU provider if there is one Snadge.

A VP is a virtual path, the apparent connection between his router and IDNet. It's not a real, end-to-end, connection, though, but a series of BT networks and routers. Hence, at any exchange, one VP can run hot, while the others have spare capacity. BT can redistribute the load if that's the case.

ahh right - so does it take an engineer visit at exchange to switch to a different patch point or is it all done on a computerized system in an office?

there are no LLu providers at his exchange unfortunately...

cheers

[Rik]

It's generally all done remotely, re-routing his connection.

[snadge]

http://www.dslzoneuk.net/isp_ratings_comments.php?isp=91


as u can see from user remarks above IDnet does have some issues as of lately

[Steve]

But the overwhelming majority are positive? at least it's only a 30 day contract perhaps the grass will be greener elsewhere

[snadge]

But the overwhelming majority are positive? at least it's only a 30 day contract perhaps the grass will be greener elsewhere

yeah they are but the few neg comments seem to be recent ones as if theyre starting to drop in ratings

we'll see

[Steve]

Trouble is people prefer to moan rather than praise and unfortunately whether it's the home setup,the BT network or the BT dependent ISP, the ISP gets the blame. it's very difficult to get BT to respond to a congested VP as it may involve an increase in the exchanges capacity. They will not do that until it becomes economically viable i.e an increase in broadband subscribers at a particular exchange.

[Lance]

Unfortunately, the majority of complaints about speed at IDNet are from people who don't understand the difference between exchange congestion or a local problem. SO many times we've had users on this very forum come on and start moaning about IDNet when, after some investigation, we've found the problem is with BT or even with their own PC.

Anything gripe I've got about complaining users is what gives them the right to moan at their being no or minimal out of hours support if they haven't found out about support hours prior to signing up?

In your fathers case, Snage, I suggest you recommend your father to stop doing the tests unless he actually experiences a problem. The problem with all speedtests is, as you've found, there are lots of variables such as server load and exchange congestion.

[Rik]

Given the forum is run by another ISP and allows posts by people who are not customers, we don't tend to put too much store by remarks posted there. Whatever ISP you look at, wherever you look, you will find good and bad comments, because people have good and bad experiences. It's important to understand a few things though:

1) We all connect through BT and, until BT hand off the signal to IDNet, we are at their mercy, hence my question about LLU.

2) The supposed unwillingness to involve BT is a comment made by someone who really doesn't understand the issues involved. IDNet will take a customer through an extensive set of local diagnostics, just as we will, before involving BT. Why? Because they know that if they call BT out straight away, the chances are the customer will be saddled with a £160+ bill. There are exceptions, though, when they can see and identify the fault they will be straight on to BT, but they have to be sure it's on the BT side of the customer's test socket. Things didn't use to be this way, but BT introduced the SFI visit with the charge, and IDNet are doing their best to protect customers from the costs.

3) The introduction of 21CN has created a faster but more vulnerable network - witness last week's problems, when a failure at Stepney Green affected the entire country's broadband. ISPs don't have any control on that BT network and only the largest can go LLU. IDNet have explored other carriers but reliability and price issues have stopped them going any further.

4) In any forum, you are likely to see people posting complaints. The vast majority don't post to say 'my connection is working well'.

IDNet are aware of problems with WBC and fibre lines, and are pushing BT hard to resolve it, but ultimately, they can't force them to do anything.

[Simon]

My connection is working well. 

[snadge]

ive been informed by a BTo engineer that exchange backhaul congestion is actually rare and its usually down to the ISP not buying enough 155Mbit or 622Mbit pipes to feed their datacenter - could it be that IDnet are due to light another segment? of course this doesnt rule out other problems, like down servers somewhere or such, broken lines in the network causing congestion on re-route of traffic

that site above (DSLzoneUK) is not run by an ISP - its an open forum for DSL users to go with problems with there broadband connections - it has a list of all ISPs and only the users of that ISP can rate as its detected from IP address - you CAN NOT rate a different ISP other than your own - therefore those remarks will be from valid customers - what they say is another matter, im not complaining about the customer service and knew it was like that before we signed up, im/were not having a mad fit like some of those that do and quite happy to use it as-is until it can be looked at.

again, my dad is only running tests on the hour to see whats happening because he is having few issues since moving to IDnet - he moved and paid more so he could get a faster connection with consistently faster speeds - if IDnet cant supply this then he would be better of paying HALF the cost for a lesser ISP who would also suffer from supposed "exchange congestion" - he doesnt sit there clicking RUN TEST , test after test and gett anoyed when theres a few Kbps difference - where talking about upto 5Mbps drop in speed at peak times - this isnt what we hoped for, he may aswell get 8Mb off plusnet for £6.49 and get same speeds and save £10 month on charges - this is the point im trying to make but Ive a feeling Im just annoying people by discussing it - I hope not, and I think its valid to 'complain' or 'discuss' if your internet slows down by that much and your paying MORE for it not too...?