FTTC & Router: Can I plug in WAN 2 of my old good draydek 2820

jm_paulin · Sep 20, 2010, 10:12:59

Right,

So I made some homework on FTTC, and I still have few question, mostly cabling related...

Q1: An openreach engineer will come to my house to install my stuff. So I guess it will replace my master socket by an filtered one. I already have a BT NTE5 faceplate fitted. Will that need changing or rewiring?

Q2: A cable goes from the master socket to the modem (BT or IDNet fitted), then a CAT 5 goes from the modem into my router. Can I plug that end into a Drayek 2820 on WAN 2? Do I need a cross cable?

IP... I do not really want to re-ip my home network. What will be the IP of the modem (on the LAN side that is)?

Thanks

Rik · Sep 20, 2010, 10:22:11

Like most people, I haven't seen a fibre installation yet, so I can't speak from experience, only what I've picked up from the handful of users who do have it.

AFAIK, the engineer will fit or replace the master socket and it does have a filtered face plate. I believe that this is meant to be different to the ADSL one, but sometimes isn't due to stock issues.

The modem is BT supplied and fitted, you connect your router or PC to that modem via an ethernet cable. AFAIK, it's a straight cable, but hopefully someone will confirm. I can't comment on the Draytek as I don't know the unit. I would expect the IP on the WAN side and LAN side of the modem to be the same, your IDNet static IP address, but again I don't know.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly wo has a cable connection and can give you more specific answers.

Steve · Sep 20, 2010, 10:43:16

I think you are correct Rik,straight Ethernet ,LAN addresses remain the same, PPPOE via router WAN port to modem

MisterW · Sep 20, 2010, 10:56:34

QuoteQ2: A cable goes from the master socket to the modem (BT or IDNet fitted), then a CAT 5 goes from the modem into my router. Can I plug that end into a Drayek 2820 on WAN 2? Do I need a cross cable?

I use a couple of 2820's for a site-site VPN, one of which uses the WAN2 port ( albeit using a static IP ).
The WAN2 port is autosensing so it really shouldnt matter about the cable type. You will need to configure WAN2 for PPPoE and put in your IDNET username and password. Only problem is that you won't be able to use the USB port as a 3G backup connection. It's either WAN2 OR the USB 3G as the backup to the ADSL (WAN1) port.

jm_paulin · Sep 20, 2010, 11:09:35

Thanks a lot MisterW. Good answer!

VPN is exactly what I use it for. I think PPPoE over WAN2 is possible (never tried it, but I am pretty sure I read somewhere this is possible).
Good point with the 3G backup.. However I never used it. It introduces far too much latency, and my ADSL is very pretty reliable, so never really needed it.

However, I guess I could consider keeping my existing ADSL, getting a new line and have FTTC on it... Keep existing ADSL on WAN1 and have FTTC on WAN2, and hope that Draytek can once again works its magic... right... setup will be interesting, will it be worth the hassle?

MrJM

zappaDPJ · Sep 20, 2010, 11:13:24

The BT engineer removed my NTE5 faceplate and fitted what I've only ever seen described as an SSFP.

The only other thing I can tell you is that I can't connect my PC directly to the BT supplied modem but I wouldn't take that as indication of anything. My Windows 7 PC simply won't recognise it as a valid connection.

jm_paulin · Sep 20, 2010, 11:26:23

Quote from: zappaDPJ on Sep 20, 2010, 11:13:24
The only other thing I can tell you is that I can't connect my PC directly to the BT supplied modem but I wouldn't take that as indication of anything. My Windows 7 PC simply won't recognise it as a valid connection.

Isn't it because you then need to setup a PPPoE dial-up connection? Just a thought...

jm_paulin · Sep 20, 2010, 11:32:09

Quote from: zappaDPJ on Sep 20, 2010, 11:13:24
The BT engineer removed my NTE5 faceplate and fitted what I've only ever seen described as an SSFP.

Cool.. a bit of googling, and it seems the SSFP plate looks much thicker than the NTE5A plate... I got the beer fridge in front of the existing socket. It is a close fit, but... it fits.... How much room do I need to have with this new faceplate?

zappaDPJ · Sep 20, 2010, 11:41:18

It is much deeper, almost exactly three times deeper than a standard NTE5.

zappaDPJ · Sep 20, 2010, 11:43:28

Quote from: jm_paulin on Sep 20, 2010, 11:26:23
Isn't it because you then need to setup a PPPoE dial-up connection? Just a thought...

That's was what I first tried but it just wasn't having it. It could well be down to me though, I've had a lot of problems getting Windows 7 to do anything in that area.

.Griff. · Sep 20, 2010, 11:44:10

Quote from: jm_paulin on Sep 20, 2010, 11:26:23
Isn't it because you then need to setup a PPPoE dial-up connection? Just a thought...

Correct. I've connected my pc directly to the vdsl2 modem by creating a pppoe connection in Windows 7.

jm_paulin · Sep 20, 2010, 11:48:15

Quote from: zappaDPJ on Sep 20, 2010, 11:41:18
It is much deeper, almost exactly three times deeper than a standard NTE5.

Gosh... now I need to also relocate the beer fridge... that was not in the plan

zappaDPJ · Sep 20, 2010, 12:14:13

Quote from: jm_paulin on Sep 20, 2010, 11:48:15
Gosh... now I need to also relocate the beer fridge... that was not in the plan

Here's a picture of mine sitting next to a standard NTE5 just to give you a proper reference.

.Griff. · Sep 20, 2010, 12:15:55

That looks nothing like my SSFP?!?

Might explain your problem?!?

jm_paulin · Sep 20, 2010, 14:39:44

Quote from: zappaDPJ on Sep 20, 2010, 12:14:13
Here's a picture of mine sitting next to a standard NTE5 just to give you a proper reference.

I have hope. It seems the new box can be slightly away from the master socket... or has the master socket been moved in that case....

Never mind, hope is fading away... BT now report the VDSL rollout date being end of December... just been pushed out by 3 month....

zappaDPJ · Sep 20, 2010, 14:51:07

From experience the only way to tell when your area has been enabled is to put your number into a checker like the one on IDNet's main site. What I can tell your for sure is that the lists published by BT and used by ISPs are totally inaccurate. The checker however seems to reflect reality so it's worth putting your number in at least once a month. If your exchange is enabled it will tell you, it just won't tell you when it's to be enabled if it isn't.

Just to clarify a couple of things. I have two phone lines, the FTTC point being the one on the right which replaced an NTE5A faceplate identical to the one on the left. However I do believe BT will install your FTTC socket on a cable up to 30 meters from the master socket but it's a additional service that incurs a charge.

As to my face plate looking different, it's the same as the one shown here: http://www.leyingitout.co.uk/2010/01/what-is-fttc-and-how-does-it-work/ (scroll to the bottom).

jm_paulin · Sep 20, 2010, 17:18:48

Good link.... Thx

As for the checker... Last week (in fact, Friday) the BT checker said end of September 30th... This morning, it says December 31st...

Rik · Sep 20, 2010, 17:19:17

Tomorrow, who knows.

MisterW · Sep 20, 2010, 19:17:36

QuoteAs for the checker... Last week (in fact, Friday) the BT checker said end of September 30th... This morning, it says December 31st...

Likewise, my exchange was supposed to be complete by Sept 2010, now it says Dec 2010.

Rik · Sep 20, 2010, 19:19:54

Well, at least it's only a 3 month delay...

Holodene · Sep 22, 2010, 21:48:29

My exchange was supposed to be ready at the end of this month. The date has changed to 31st March 2011. They have already laid the fibre. I don't know what is going on.

Simon · Sep 22, 2010, 21:56:31

Unfortunately, BT is going on...

Bill · Sep 22, 2010, 22:00:34

Quote from: Holodene on Sep 22, 2010, 21:48:29I don't know what is going on.

I think BT must be prioritising areas, though goodness knows on what basis. Mine was done 6 weeks earlier than the given date, and the engineer hinted that other engineers were being pulled in from surrounding areas

Glenn · Sep 22, 2010, 22:05:28

Our 'onsite' BT engineer was told he was moving to upgrade exchanges, but his move has been put on hold, as BT have a contract to supply an engineer onsite.

Bill · Sep 22, 2010, 22:09:14

It fits... Oxon, Berks, Bucks sort of area.

Fibre follows the money at a guess.

Oops- add Surrey to the list

Rik · Sep 23, 2010, 08:43:38

Or it could be planning issues in NIMBY areas...

Lance · Sep 23, 2010, 09:16:13

Quote from: Holodene on Sep 22, 2010, 21:48:29
My exchange was supposed to be ready at the end of this month. The date has changed to 31st March 2011. They have already laid the fibre. I don't know what is going on.

Maybe (and it's a big maybe) BT have realised they haven't got the capacity on the backhaul from the exchange so won't light the fibre until they've sorted that.

Rik · Sep 23, 2010, 09:18:31

Perhaps they use it as Xmas decorations in the interim.

Gary · Sep 23, 2010, 10:09:17

Quote from: Rik on Sep 23, 2010, 09:18:31
Perhaps they use it as Xmas decorations in the interim.

No xmas talk till December

Rik · Sep 23, 2010, 10:09:37

jm_paulin · Sep 23, 2010, 10:55:07

Ok, let's face it... I really would love xmas to beat Halloween...

So I checked again, the BT checker is dead (why did they broken it for chrome users), but my exchange (Mitcham) is marked as `live`....
IDNet checker still say Dec 2010....

When is xmas again?

Rik · Sep 23, 2010, 10:59:06

Which year did you have in mind?

Glenn · Sep 23, 2010, 11:03:59

What does it say here http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome The exchange may have FTTC, but there maybe additional work to enable the cabinets connected back to the exchange.

jm_paulin · Sep 23, 2010, 13:41:13

BT Says:

Quote
Your cabinet is planned to have WBC FTTC by 31st December 2010. Our test also indicates that your line currently supports a fibre technology with an estimated WBC FTTC Broadband where consumers have received downstream line speed of 22.2Mbps and upstream line speed of 9.9Mbps

I guess this is my answer...

MisterW · Sep 23, 2010, 14:17:35

Very similar to mine

QuoteYour cabinet is planned to have WBC FTTC by 31st December 2010. Our test also indicates that your line currently supports a fibre technology with an estimated WBC FTTC Broadband where consumers have received downstream line speed of 17.8Mbps and upstream line speed of 7.7Mbps.

The downstream estimate for FFTC seems a bit conservative to me. I currently get 8Mbps on ADSL MAX and the same checker says

QuoteOur test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 15Mbps.

Surely if the line would support 15Mbps on ADSL2+ its going to more like 30Mbps on FTTC ?

jm_paulin · Sep 23, 2010, 14:52:44

Quote from: MisterW on Sep 23, 2010, 14:17:35
I currently get 8Mbps on ADSL MAX and the same checker saysSurely if the line would support 15Mbps on ADSL2+ its going to more like 30Mbps on FTTC ?

Not quite. See the VDSL degradation over distance from the cabinet here: http://www.leyingitout.co.uk/2010/01/what-is-fttc-and-how-does-it-work/

VDSL is not always the answer to speed....