Test Router

[annc]

Hi - I am asking this forum for help once again.  My daughter has returned from holiday and has received a test router from IDNet.  She has plugged it in, but her laptop (running Windows Vista) cannot detect it!  Also - IDNet have not given her any method of return which has to be within 7 days and she will have to buy a jiffy bag and do this at her own expense.   

Has anyone here ever used one of these test routers and if so is there something she could be doing wrong.  Seems to be quite straightforward, plugged into power socket and into filter.  Any idea why her laptop can't find it?

Thanks
Ann

[Steve]

Hi Ann

I think we need to know which router she's been given i.e if it's a Netgear DG834 it won't have wifi or if it's a Netgear DG834G the wireless could be turned off.

[annc]

Hi Steve - you have hit the nail on the head.  Both of us had told IDNET that she connects wirelessly.  Her router is next to her front door so she can't stand in the hallway to use her laptop!!!  They have sent her a Netgear DG834.  Now she will have to return it at her expense.  This is all becoming a bit of a joke  I will have to phone them on her behalf tomorrow as she will be working from 8.00-6.30pm.  The support hours aren't very helpful if you are working.  

[Steve]

If your prepared to get your hands dirty, you can connect the DG834g which I think you also have in bridge mode to the DG834 so it will act as a wireless access point

Essentially log into DG834g turn off the DHCP server and then connect it to one of the ethernet ports of the DG834.

[annc]

Hi Steve - thanks very much for that.  I think I could do that, but she isn't quite so IT savvy and I am not sure she would know how to do it.   She lives quite a distance from me, so I can't just drop in and do it for her.  IDNET will have to send her a wireless test router. 

In the meantime, the drops she is getting are less, but only getting between 1-2Mbs download speeds which needs sorting by someone.

Thanks again for your help re: the router type, it never occurred to me that they would send out a wired router.

Ann

[Simon]

I would assume that they want to eliminate the wireless connection as being part of the problem, hence sending a wired router for testing purposes.  Can your daughter not use the packaging IDNet sent it in to return it?  I'm always using second hand jiffy bags.   I further assume that IDNet paid the postage to send it, so it's even, really.  

[Lance]

The postage on the router and any packing is a significant reduction in cost to a customer than purchasing a new router themselves or paying for a BT visit.

I don't know of any other ISP which offers this service (that's not to say there isn't any).

Legally required, by the way, is a break when working from 8 to half 6. If she chooses not to call support during this break, she could maybe email and request a out of hours support call.

[annc]

Thanks Lance

She requested a phone call from out of hours support last night but didn't get a call back.  She leaves for work at 8.15am and sometimes doesn't get back until after 6.30pm  Yesterday she was up in London organising a conference so no chance of phoning IDNET - today it is teleconferencing with the US until 6.30pm. 

Everything to do with her broadband connection was organised by IDNet 6 months ago, from the installation of the phone line to her broadband connection. 
It is only when things go pear shaped that you realise that an ISP that is only open from 8.00-6.30 Mon-Fri is absolutely useless if you are working.

Ann

[Steve]

I'm not sure we at the forum can offer any more help until a test router is connected and working, I sympathise with your daughters plight but some accommodation has to be made to resolve these issues. Although you will find extended out of hours support with other ISPs one has to be careful that this does not involve some script monkey based outside the UK

[annc]

Hi Steve - she will plug the test router in on Friday evening before she goes away for the weekend and will remove it when she returns Sunday.  Hopefully this will be enough time to monitor.  This of course is only to identify the stability of the router she has (that was bought from IDNET) and will not help to find the cause of her very low download speeds, not sure what the process will be after that.

Thanks again

Ann

[Steve]

If she can manage to get some stats from the router when she returns and also a BT speedtest it would be very useful, all this providing she has a length of ethernet cable to connect to the laptop.

[annc]

Hi Steve - this all gets curiouser and curiouser.  I did a search regarding the telephone line and the BT Wholesale Checker states that the maximum speed her line will take is 500Kbs.  I have phoned BT who say that the line up to her building will take up to 7Mbs.  I had phoned IDNet about this and they just said there was nothing they can do, however, this line was wired in by BT in April this year.  So if the line up to her building will take 7Mbs surely they did something wrong with her internal wiring?  She has nothing plugged into the master socket but the router (no telephone) and she has plugged it directly into the socket having removed the faceplate. 

I don't understand why the line up to the building would take a high speed but her particular line is only supporting 500Kbs - seems ridiculous.  Any suggestions as to how to proceed on this? 

Thanks

Ann

[annc]

Ah - forget last post.  I finally spoke to someone at IDNet who has explained it all to me and the light has dawned   Apparently, until her connection is stable the speed will be driven down in an attempt to provide something/anything.  Once we get to the route of the disconnections the line can be reset and hopefully maintain higher speeds.   I must say that I was very surprised that in the middle of a busy town she should have such poor speeds, while I am out in the sticks and get a constant 6.5Mbs.

So it is now all wait and see with fingers crossed. 

[Steve]

The joys of BTs IP profile system and the imposition of banded profile's on adsl2+. A lot of the issues relate to noise or interference induced into the adsl signal by internal wiring and also in addition faulty adsl routers and filters. BT charge £160 + vat to check a broadband line if no fault is found between the master socket and the exchange, we the user, therefore have to make sure  first of all that there are no issues our side of the master socket.

[annc]

Phone IDnet this morning to say test router had been plugged in all weekend (not connected to laptop so computer is out of the frame).  They said there had been constant drops on the line - so looks like it isn't her router that is to blame. 

BT set this line up in April.  There are no extensions, no phone connected and the router is plugged directly into the master socket with the face plate off.  Any thoughts as to what the cause of this could be?

Thanks
Ann

[Simon]

Could be a line fault.  It might actually help if she had a phone to connect, as she could then do a 'quiet line test'.  If there is noise or crackling on the line, that could cause problems.

[annc]

Thanks Simon - but what can be done about noise on the line?  Her broadband is virtually unusable at the moment.  She was getting better speeds from the Orange dongle that I bought for her when she first moved in. 

[Simon]

Well, if there's noise on the line, that can be reported to BT as a voice fault, which they are more likely to fix. 

[annc]

Ah - thanks for that.  IDnet have said that they will do some tests on the line this morning and phone me back, so will wait for that, might then just report as a line fault anyway - must be that as I can't think of any other explanation.  If it is her wiring, then they are responsible anyway because they did it only 7 months ago!

[Steve]

I think we need to be clear of the difference between reporting a line with voice fault and a broadband fault. The voice fault is noise heard on a non portable phone during the quiet line test, with regard to a broadband fault, I would be directed by IDNet who have the experience to tell whether a BT call out is warranted . If BT find no fault between master socket and exchange, the user ends up paying.

[annc]

Thanks Steve - If there is no fault between the master socket (router plugged directly in) and the exchange, then the fault is down to IDnet.  It is all well and good for each service to blame the other, but if the broadband service is unusable through no fault of the customer then what to do?

[annc]

Ok - it is being referred to BT as there is no equipment fault.  Will take approx 24 hours for them to check - hoping that they will find fault and rectify     Thanks to everyone for input and for putting up with my ranting.  Problems like this are very frustrating. 

PS - can't find an edit button to help modify previous post.  I know my eyesight isn't as good as it was but 

[SSK]

If there is no fault between the master socket (router plugged directly in) and the exchange, then the fault is down to IDnet. 

Perhaps that depends on exactly what is meant by 'between the master socket and the exchange'.
Does that actually include the equipment in the exchange?
My understanding is that any fault in the exchange is BT's responsibility.

Last year I totally lost all internet connection (no synch at all) for over 2 weeks because there was a fault in the card at the exchange. For 10 days BT claimed there was a synch and that their remote diagnostics showed no fault at the exchange. I had to buy and test another router before they would believe there was no problem at my end. Only then did they agree to send an engineer to the exchange. It took a couple of days for them to do that, then another few days to get a new card and fit it.

Anyway, the points I'm trying to make are: 1) the fault may not be BETWEEN the test socket and the exchange but can still be BT's problem; 2) BT will always deny anything is their problem; 3) BT's remote diagnostics don't always give correct results; 4) BT will try any delaying tactics they can to avoid sending an engineer to the exchange.

Sean

[Simon]

That is your own experience though, Sean.  Others have fared better. 

Ann, you can only edit a post for a certain time, after which the Edit button disappears.

[annc]

Anyway, the points I'm trying to make are: 1) the fault may not be BETWEEN the test socket and the exchange but can still be BT's problem; 2) BT will always deny anything is their problem; 3) BT's remote diagnostics don't always give correct results; 4) BT will try any delaying tactics they can to avoid sending an engineer to the exchange.

Sean

Hi Sean - yep I have had that myself.  Even had a BT engineer out to test my wiring (phone kept cutting out as well as broadband but I have got 5 phones and several yards of extension cable  )  They insisted that the fault lay with myself, but later it was discovered that there was a fault at the exchange that was affecting a number of users.  I had already been billed by BT by this time, but complained and eventually received a refund.  Anyway - I am well aware of BT's tactics but am hoping that something will be done in this case as it is much more simple, no phone and no other equipment or extension cable and router - now proved to have no fault - plugged directly into master socket, they simply can't blame anything else. - Or can they