New ADSL Modem/router recommendations

[stevenrw]

Hello everybody..
some info and recommendations please.
My 2700HGV router finally gave up the ghost last week so I've reverted to my trusty old Netgear DG834G V3 which has given me the following results
5499 d/s, 880 u/s from BT speedtester with d/s attenuation 40db noise margin 10db and u/s attenuation 11db, noise margin 6db taken from the router stats.
This is from the wired connection.

Now, the set up is a wired connection to the desktop and wireless to a laptop downstairs. Wireless strength is fair to good most of the time.

However, the laptop, being quite new, has wireless N capeability, so I'm wondering if I should upgrade the modem/router keeping the DG834G as a spare.
I'm also wondering if I would get any appreciable improvement on the wired connection if I went for a router with gigaports or would I be limited by the on board wired adapter (Mobo is about 2 years old)
NAS capeability would be a bonus rather than a requirement.
There are so many conflicting reviews out there, so I thought I'd come here to the font of all knowledge to see what you guys could suggest.

I first looked at the Netgear DGND3300, but the Billion Bipac 7800N seems to get glowing reviews.

I'm not sure if my connection stats would result in me getting full value from these "better" models, but I could really do with increasing the wireless range to up the signal strength on the wireless lappy.

Any suggestions you may have would be much appreciated. Both the above models are at the top limit of my budget.

[Ray]

I've recently upgraded mine to a Draytek Vigor 2710n which works well for me and I've had no problems with it, no disconnections and the wireless signal strength seems good.

[Rik]

If your computer only has a 100Mb port, a gigabit network would be a waste, other than as an investment for the future. Most machines built in the last 3-4 years have, in my experience, had gigabit ports, but most laptops have not - though if you're working wirelessly, that won't matter.

Your stats suggest to me that there would be little speed advantage in moving to N, unless you do a lot of file transfers across your network. They also suggest that you may want to take a look at your internal phone wiring, you have a noise margin of 10db, which says that it has likely been raised to stabilise the line.

I've no personal experience of the models you list, but I've been hearing more bad stories of Netgear support recently, so I'd probably avoid one of their products.

[Gary]

Depends on your usage, for me the 5Ghz spectrum on the DGND3300 is ideal for my Mac and everything else runs on 2.4ghz, its a good solid router, but as Ray says the Draytec is a good router, although for me its overkill and ugly as sin in my view, but it does what it says on the tin and very well by all accounts. There is no point in getting something you don't need, but also don't sell yourself short for future expansion. Any of the routers you mentioned are good, as is Rays, there are some good Speedtouch ones as well.

[Gary]

If your computer only has a 100Mb port, a gigabit network would be a waste, other than as an investment for the future. Most machines built in the last 3-4 years have, in my experience, had gigabit ports, but most laptops have not - though if you're working wirelessly, that won't matter.

Your stats suggest to me that there would be little speed advantage in moving to N, unless you do a lot of file transfers across your network. They also suggest that you may want to take a look at your internal phone wiring, you have a noise margin of 10db, which says that it has likely been raised to stabilise the line.

I've no personal experience of the models you list, but I've been hearing more bad stories of Netgear support recently, so I'd probably avoid one of their products.

Netgear support has never been great, Rik. They send you out a new router if you need it, thats good enough for me, they replaced an old power supply for a DG834N last year without any troubles, the art with them is to not argue but just tell them you did what they asked (even if you didn't) as the tests are pretty obvious and then they will send a router out, you can do a swap on the door step I think.

[stevenrw]

Thanks to everybody for your views and advice.
I just need a bit of clarification however...
Rik suggests that the phone wiring is iffy, so if I was to connect the router to the main master socket, thus reducing the noise that will allow the speed to increase - yes?
That would mean both machines on wireless.
Assuming I went for a wireless N router and obtained a wireless n adapter dongle for the desktop, would that then potentially give me faster speed than the current wired arrangement (10/100 at present through the DG834G)?
The wired machine has a gigabit adapter, but we don't transfer much between the two machines across the network at the moment.
I agree, great performer it may be but only a mother could love the looks of the Draytek , I'm moving toward the Billion I think.
I'm just not sure which arrangement will give me the best results. Wired from the master socket isn't practical.

[Rik]

You need to connect to the test socket, the one behind the faceplate of the master socket, to eliminate your internal wiring as being a possible cause. After you connect there, check your router stats immediately, as that will give us more certainty about the target noise margin. If things improve, you need to resolve the internal wiring issues. If they don't, then it's possible there's a BT line or exchange fault.

[stevenrw]

Update:
Just some feedback - I bought the Billion 7800N in the end. Although it looks like it was probably built in the Soviet Union in about 1975, it was easy to set up and is working well. Wireless coverage is greatly improved.
As requested I did a test from the master BT socket behind the faceplate. These are the results
Speeds from BT speedtester, other stats from the router.

Down 5985 kbps
SNR 7.0
Line attenuation 42.0

up 910 kbps
SNR 5.8
Line attenuation 22.5

Up/down speeds are pretty good but what do the other figures mean? They don't seem a whole lot different to the ones I got from the extension socket. Are they good/bad and what effect are they likely to have on the connection?
Its all a mystery to me, but the connection seems solid so far.

[Rik]

They are hugely different, in terms of upstream attenuation to your previous figures:

5499 d/s, 880 u/s from BT speedtester with d/s attenuation 40db noise margin 10db and u/s attenuation 11db, noise margin 6db taken from the router stats.

D/s attenuation is also slightly higher but the sync speed is also increased, while noise margin is down. That suggests the router is doing a better job and extracting a bit more from your line.

[stevenrw]

Thanks for the clarification Rik.
So its been a good investment it seems.
The 802n has certainly given HID's lappy wireless signal a kick up the bottom!
I'm a happy bunny as long as the speeds remain stable.

[Rik]

Well, you're in the lap of BT's DLM god there, Steven. Offer up a sacrifice.

[Tacitus]

Well, you're in the lap of BT's DLM god there, Steven. Offer up a sacrifice.

It's been an interesting if frustrating experience running RouterStats with the 2700.  The one thing that stands out is how BTs DLM over reacts to a one-off noise event, albeit a significant one.  Things were running fine for several days after the line was reset, but one bout of noise which pushed the margin to zero and immediately the SNR is raised and the speed pushed right down.  It doesn't seem to wait and see if it's a one-off it just massively over reacts.

Then at around 3.40 AM this morning the signal vanished altogether and didn't come back up until around 9.30 AM  Unfortunately by that time I'd stopped running RouterStats so I couldn't see what happened.  Profile is now 250 kps.....

Aren't BT wonderful?  I'll put in a call to support on Monday.  They'll be as reluctant as I am to get BT out, but something very odd is going on. 

[Rik]

Let's hope BT will investigate for you, Tac.

[Tacitus]

Let's hope BT will investigate for you, Tac.

Me too Rik.