FFTC Pricing IDNet vs BT

[zebrum]

BT called me today to make me aware FFTC is available on my line, somehow I had missed the email from IDNet back in May oops. I listened to their offering then said to call me back on Monday while I check IDNets pricing and now have a tough decision to make...

BT Infinity Package 1
Download allowance: 60GB (Anytime)
Price: £24.99/month
Installation: Can't see any price on BT's website but on the phone he said £50 plus £5 for the homehub shipping.
Contract length: 18 months
Extras: Free BT Openzone (Not 100% clear if it really is an Openzone account or just FON use)
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=29017

IDNet Home Starter Fibre
Download allowance: 16GB (9am to midnight)
Price: £19.99/month
Installation: £47
Contract length: 12 months
https://www.idnet.net/solutions/home/broadband/default-fibre.jsp

Switching to BT appears like the obvious choice based on price and download allowance alone, but I was wondering if there was anything I'm missing, apart from the obvious superior customer service from IDNet which would be tough to give up? I also emailed IDNet customer services to see if they were planning on updating their pricing to match BT's in the near future, and on the off-chance they would price match, because I can't really be bothered with the hassle of switching providers right now.

[zebrum]

Btw on the phone the BT guy said megabytes instead of megabits and also said BT don't do any traffic shaping, so I'm already dreading a possible move...

[.Griff.]

BT don't do any traffic shaping, so I'm already dreading a possible move...

Someone is telling you porky pies.. Their own website confirms they throttle P2P.

[zebrum]

Someone is telling you porky pies.. Their own website confirms they throttle P2P.

Yeh that's why I said I was dreading it ;-)

I just realised there is a cheaper option for fibre at £7.99 first 3 months, then £19.99 after and no £50 charge! Although its not explained very well at all on BT's site, it wasn't til I read this blog post that it made sense:
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/2010/08/23/bt-slash-price-of-uk-40mb-infinity-fibre-optic-broadband-and-phone-service.html

Well it makes sense in that the post explains "it offers most of the same features" meaning its mostly the same but cheaper, but still doesn't make sense why it's cheaper! I guess it could be an incentive to move your phone account back to BT from a cheap provider and they'll make the difference back on call costs...dunno.

[mchunt_idnet]

I would seriously look at

http://community.bt.com/t5/BB-in-Home/bt-infinity-fair-usage-policy/td-p/20879

It looks like if you exceed 100GB usage with BT you will be throttled down to a 1Mbps connection, and stuck in that contract for 18 months. Makes it very hard for us when others use the term 'Unlimited' when we show you clearly what you are going to get and they don't.

"Please note: your service won't be affected in any other way - we'll restrict only your speed, not the amount you can upload and download." -  by reducing speed they are reducing the amount you can download, or is my grasp of reality broken!

[Simon]

Very good point, Martin.

[Holodene]

Don't do it. You'll regret it if your broadband connection is important to you.

[Bill]

"Please note: your service won't be affected in any other way - we'll restrict only your speed, not the amount you can upload and download." -  by reducing speed they are reducing the amount you can download, or is my grasp of reality broken!

They're reducing it, but not limiting it, so it's still "unlimited".

Wonderful thing, the English language

[Simon]

It's limited, in that if the download speed is reduced, so is the amount that can be downloaded in a given time scale...  Isn't it? 

[Bill]

That's what I meant by the wonders of the English language... one meaning of the verb "to limit" is "to prevent going beyond a specific value". For example there's a bit of circuitry in an FM radio that prevents the RF voltage at one point from exceeding a certain value, it's usually called a limiter.

BT don't prevent you from downloading any amount that your line speed can handle, so in that sense it's unlimited.

Just as IDNet is unlimited... but in practice I couldn't download more than about 11.6 terabytes in a month even if I wanted to, so are IDNet fibbing?

I'm not defending the use of the term "unlimited", but there are shades of meaning that can easily be exploited

[Simon]

OK, just for arguments sake, if a vehicle has a speed limiter, and there was no road speed restrictions, it couldn't travel as far, in a given period of time, as a vehicle with unlimited speed, yes?  Doesn't that mean that the distance of the slower vehicle is being 'limited' by it's speed? 

[Bill]

Doesn't that mean that the distance of the slower vehicle is being 'limited' by it's speed? 

Yes, it does, according to one meaning of the word.

Just as, in comparison with someone on a direct link to the internet (eg via JANET), my connection via IDNet is limited. I've seen mention that FTTC can be reconfigured to give 60Mbps and that the current 40Mbps is "artificial", does that make my connection "limited"? On your definition, it does.

To me, "limited" means that there is a download figure beyond which you will not be allowed to go, regardless of any natural or artificial speed restrictions in place.

If you don't use a definition like that, then there isn't an unlimited connection on the planet!

So BT Infinity is restricted (throttled), but not limited. IMHO

[Simon]

[Rik]

I didn't know we were having a pedants day.

[Bill]

I didn't know we were having a pedants day.

Is there any other sort of day?

[Simon]

Well, someone has to make up for you not being here. 

[Rik]

This is true.

[zebrum]

Ok thanks for the replies have considered everything and decided that I want to stay with IDNet but don't think the upgrade to FFTC is worth £50 connection and for me an extra £7 per month (24.99 - 17.99), as well as a 12 month contract (although in Simon's email to me said it was 1 month but on the IDNet fibre page it says 12 so not totally clear on that). So just going to stick with what I've got til the price situation changes...at least until the connection charge disappears.

[Rik]

As I understand it, it is a 12 month contract because that's the contract IDNet have to agree with BT.

[Technical Ben]

I would seriously look at

http://community.bt.com/t5/BB-in-Home/bt-infinity-fair-usage-policy/td-p/20879

It looks like if you exceed 100GB usage with BT you will be throttled down to a 1Mbps connection, and stuck in that contract for 18 months. Makes it very hard for us when others use the term 'Unlimited' when we show you clearly what you are going to get and they don't.

"Please note: your service won't be affected in any other way - we'll restrict only your speed, not the amount you can upload and download." -   by reducing speed they are reducing the amount you can download, or is my grasp of reality broken!

Best of all (although I don't know the IDNet pricing structure) is you are honest, and helpful. You still provide the bandwidth/downloads if people go over the limit. They just go from "monthly" to  "pay per GB". So if you need that extra, you can just pay for it. BT don't give you the option of paying extra to get more. They just throttle you to practically Dial-up speeds.
[edit]
Oh, we don't have a problem with them saying "unlimited activity" Bill. But it's the "unlimited downloads" that is kind of misleading. Bit like the car example. Saying it can "Drive non stop for 1 month on a tank of fuel" is all good and helpful. But still dishonest if you did it from the top of mount Everest, and let gravity do the rest. 

[.Griff.]

I would seriously look at

http://community.bt.com/t5/BB-in-Home/bt-infinity-fair-usage-policy/td-p/20879

It looks like if you exceed 100GB usage with BT you will be throttled down to a 1Mbps connection

You are quoting a post on their forum that's over 5 months old.

BT have subsequently increased their "limit" to 300Gb before you will be throttled.