Surge protection for ADSL

[Polchraine]

I've emailed them for confirmation. It mentions on one of the cables, but not others.

Ted,  let us know the answer, it will save me time occasionally.

[BrianM]

I had a lightening strike on my first PC a few years back, i had no surge protection at all. The strike took out my house phone, and damaged the motherboard and modem, luckily pc was still under warranty and they repaired it, also replaced the hard drive, don't know if the strike damaged that though.  I haven't gone down the router route yet but my current modem goes through the surge protector. 

[pctech]

Had a dial-up modem taken out by a lightning strike but thankfully my PC was ok.

[armadillo]

Polchraine, thank you so much for a brilliant explanation of what cable to use and how to connect it. Absolute clarity and I am really grateful to you for taking the trouble to set it out. I did not know that 2 pair Cat5e even existed, never having seen it on any of the sites I had looked on.

The short RJ11 flat router cable supplied with the router has the colours in the same sequence at each end so I would imagine your suggestion to try your first method of connection is exactly what I will need to do.

But it would make sense for me to await the reply to Ted's email to ADSL Nation before I start buying cable, connectors and a tool just to make one cable up. The 20m cable he links looks ideal if it is Cat5e.  Would it be insulting them to check that it has been wired as twisted pairs, as you describe? Or should we just assume that they know what they are doing and would definitely have wired it like that? I mean, you wouldn't ask a surgeon if he had used the correct suture stitch!

If I do end up having to buy a tool, what would you think to
this tool
and
RJ11 connectors ?

[armadillo]

You can get a 20m RJ11 HERE

Thank you Ted. That looks ideal if they confirm that it is Cat5e. Thank you for emailing them. As I mentioned to Polchraine, I suppose it would insult them to ask if they have wired as twisted pairs. Also, if the colour sequence is the same at each end plug.

I would guess the wiring would be appropriate. After all, they are selling these things specifically for connecting router/modems.

I shall wait for your report of their email reply before I buy. If they cannot confirm, I shall go down Polchraine's beautifully explained, but more fiddly and costly route.

[armadillo]

I had a computer rendered useless by lightning coming down the phone line, just heard a loud crack.
Cost me a new motherboard.

I had a motherboard destroyed when I pulled a USB connector out as the PC was booting. Might have been coincidence. Sourced a used motherboard of same type and rebuilt the PC but it has made me very wary of things that can fry motherboards.

[Ted]

Thank you Ted. That looks ideal if they confirm that it is Cat5e. Thank you for emailing them. As I mentioned to Polchraine, I suppose it would insult them to ask if they have wired as twisted pairs. Also, if the colour sequence is the same at each end plug.

I would guess the wiring would be appropriate. After all, they are selling these things specifically for connecting router/modems.

I shall wait for your report of their email reply before I buy. If they cannot confirm, I shall go down Polchraine's beautifully explained, but more fiddly and costly route.

I got a reply and it is only the Pro + that has a foil shield, They forgot to confirm if they were cat5e, so I've asked again. They did say that they were out of stock of the 20m cables, I've asked when they are likely to be back in.

It does say on one of the cables that they are cat5e standard, so I'm inclined to think they all are. I actually have a 10m Pro+ which is in use at the moment. I'll check out the pin orientation tomorrow.

Still awaiting their reply, if I don't hear before Monday, I'll give them a quick call.

[Polchraine]

Polchraine, thank you so much for a brilliant explanation of what cable to use and how to connect it. Absolute clarity and I am really grateful to you for taking the trouble to set it out. I did not know that 2 pair Cat5e even existed, never having seen it on any of the sites I had looked on.

The short RJ11 flat router cable supplied with the router has the colours in the same sequence at each end so I would imagine your suggestion to try your first method of connection is exactly what I will need to do.

But it would make sense for me to await the reply to Ted's email to ADSL Nation before I start buying cable, connectors and a tool just to make one cable up. The 20m cable he links looks ideal if it is Cat5e.  Would it be insulting them to check that it has been wired as twisted pairs, as you describe? Or should we just assume that they know what they are doing and would definitely have wired it like that? I mean, you wouldn't ask a surgeon if he had used the correct suture stitch!

If I do end up having to buy a tool, what would you think to
this tool
and
RJ11 connectors ?

That tool looks fine - ratchet ones are always better as they ensure you get the right level of compression.   The connectors will be OK too - 50 of them gives you te chance to make a mistake or two!   It always takes a little practice getting the first ones right.

[armadillo]

I got a reply and it is only the Pro + that has a foil shield, They forgot to confirm if they were cat5e, so I've asked again. They did say that they were out of stock of the 20m cables, I've asked when they are likely to be back in.

It does say on one of the cables that they are cat5e standard, so I'm inclined to think they all are. I actually have a 10m Pro+ which is in use at the moment. I'll check out the pin orientation tomorrow.

Still awaiting their reply, if I don't hear before Monday, I'll give them a quick call.

Thank you Ted. I just tried to check the adslnation site to see if they have 20m Pro+ but the site is down. Anyway, if you use the foil shield, do you need to earth the shield, and if so, what is the best and safest way?

Anyway, I would be happy with the unshielded one probably. I would take whatever they have in stock. I am not having much luck with stock. I emailed Clarity to ask about the out of stock surge protector that Tacitus linked to. I got an auto reply saying they are very busy and may take some time to reply.

So it looks like I am awaiting an out of stock surge protector and an out of stock cable.

As soon as adslnation give you confirmation of Cat5e and stock position, I shall order from them. Polchraine's cable making looks rather fun though so I won't mind if I have to do it that way.

I'll await further news from you. Thank you again for being generous with your time.

[armadillo]

That tool looks fine - ratchet ones are always better as they ensure you get the right level of compression.   The connectors will be OK too - 50 of them gives you te chance to make a mistake or two!   It always takes a little practice getting the first ones right.

Ah good. Yes, I was planning to try two or three plugs as practice and cut them off again. Was also going to make up a short one to confirm that it correctly makes the connection and does not hammer SNR margin. Then I would make and try the long one.

This sounds like a silly question. But those ratchet tools do actually do the business of forcing the gold connectors through the coloured insulation, don't they? I mean, they do more than just crimp the cable retainer.

I shall see what Ted comes with from ADSL Nation.

It is really great to meet such helpful people. I give a lot of advice on photography forums so it makes a change to be at the receiving end 

[Polchraine]

Yes, the tool forces the contacts through the insulation and also crimps the shroud onto the cable.

Have just remembered a company suggested to me for something else:

http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/index.html

Give them a call and see if they can supply one ready made ...   RJ11 (6P4C) at each end, straight wired and using Cat5e (2 pair).

You also asked about screened cable - the screening will "reflect" noise and whilst ideal to earth it, it is not essential.



p.s. - Don't see you on the Pentax Forum!

[armadillo]

Yes, the tool forces the contacts through the insulation and also crimps the shroud onto the cable.

Thanks. Always best not to assume the obvious!

I'll call run-it-direct on Monday (the website says Mon-Fri) and I'll also ask if they can use screened cable (and all the other detail you gave, for which many thanks). Noise limiting is pretty important as otherwise I am going to hit my sync speed and probably get a million disconnects until it settles down again.

I am on the DP Review forums a lot. Mainly the Fuji DSLR forum. And I call myself Claypaws there, not armadillo. I am armadillo on Think Broadband!

[armadillo]

I'll call run-it-direct on Monday (the website says Mon-Fri)

Also just found another source of a ready made cable that they specifically say is Cat5.
Cat5e at Cables2U

They're Monday to Friday too.

I am amazed how difficult it is to find these things.

[pctech]

Would be interested to hear if this has any positive effect as might consider replacing the one on mine.

[armadillo]

Would be interested to hear if this has any positive effect as might consider replacing the one on mine.

Once I have a cable, I will feed back results to this thread on the sync and throughput achieved, both with and without surge protection.

I don't know how much difference it would make with a short cable. But since I want to connect a 20m cable, an ordinary phone or modem cable is hopeless.

[Ted]

The pin orientation is identical both ends of the cable, with pins facing you it's Black, Red, Green, Yellow from left to right.

No answer from them yet, I'll give them a bell, Monday.

There's no need to earth the foil shield, in fact there's no way, it's all sealed up, Just plug and go.

[armadillo]

The pin orientation is identical both ends of the cable, with pins facing you it's Black, Red, Green, Yellow from left to right.

That colour coding looks suspiciously like it is plain parallel modem/router cable rather than twisted pair Cat5e (not that I am an expert all of a sudden!). Black, Red, Green, Yellow is exactly what my plain 2m flat router cable has at the ends.

I would have expected something with pairing of somewhat fancy colour codes, like Polchraine described
here


The one I linked to
http://www.cables2u.co.uk/very-long-rj11-adsl-broadband-modem-cable-high-specification-p-907.html

has a nice big picture



That looks much more believable for something which should have the inner connectors on one twisted pair and the outers on another twisted pair of a Cat5e cable. What would you think?

No answer from them yet, I'll give them a bell, Monday.

Thank you. I really appreciate the trouble you are taking on my behalf. I shall wait to contact my above linked one until I "hear" from you.

There's no need to earth the foil shield, in fact there's no way, it's all sealed up, Just plug and go.

Thanks. I suppose it is more obvious when the cable is in your hand!

I wonder if they are using straight untwisted, unpaired cable in their screened leads and twisted pair Cat5e in the unscreened ones.

I would expect (from my rapidly cluttering and rookie brain) that screened twisted pair Cat5e would have something like Cat5e FTP or Cat5e STP printed on it and unscreened something like Cat5e UTP as well as a more convincing colour scheme. No doubt you or someone else can tell me that is wrong 

[Ted]

I don't think the colour has any bearing on whether it is twisted or not. Although the web site is down it definately states "High Quality, twisted pairs" The cable is round and almost as thick as a Cat5 cable despite only having two pairs instead of four. The wording on the sheathing is "www.adslnation.com-Pro+High Performance DSL cable".

To be honest the colour scheme on your picture looks a little strange to me, inner pair Red\White and outer pair green\green. Seems odd to have a pair the same colour, but who knows  

*Stop press* just found these http://www.itm-components.co.uk/product602.html they seem to tick all the right boxes.

[armadillo]

I agree the colour on the picture does not look quite right. I reckoned that what looks like green/green is probably green-white/white-green and the red/white is probably red-white/white-red. If the insulation is oriented unfavourably for viewing, one of the stripe colours can all but disappear from view.

Your latest stop press link does seem to tick the right boxes (though I wish they would specifically say twisted pairs). The only slight problem is length. 50ft is just over 15m (15m is 49ft). I might get away with that rather than my preferred 20m. At present, the LAN cable I have between the router and the PC is 15m and I would route the new cable in exactly the same path. The router just goes to the opposite end of the path from where it is now so as to sit next to the PC instead of next to the BT socket. 20m would give me a bit more leeway to route the cable more neatly and would be ideal. But I can probably manage with 50ft. 100ft is definitely too long. If your adslnation 20m pro one says twisted on its (down) website and it is shielded, that would probably be ideal if they tell you it is cat5e too (especially if it is not out of stock!). Round and nearly as thick as a LAN cable sounds promising too.

While checking out a link to a completely different cable for Ravenheart in his thread on surge protectors, I fell over yet another cat5e RJ11 cable here
http://www.kenable.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=23_107&products_id=1166
not shielded but otherwise looks right.

I hope to actually buy one of these proliferating choices of cable on Monday. It will be interesting to try using it after all this investigation and help.

[Ted]

I agree the colour on the picture does not look quite right. I reckoned that what looks like green/green is probably green-white/white-green and the red/white is probably red-white/white-red. If the insulation is oriented unfavourably for viewing, one of the stripe colours can all but disappear from view.

I have another cable, a Belkin double shielded which is wired *2345* *5432* completely backwards, using Blue\Orange pairs   How strange it that!

Your latest stop press link does seem to tick the right boxes (though I wish they would specifically say twisted pairs).

A Cat5\e is defined not by "if" it is twisted, but rather by "how many" twists per inch it has. So I wouldn't bother too much if it doesn't specifically say TP.

The only slight problem is length.

Doh! It's Feet not Metres, my bad. I'd looked at so many cables it went over my head.

Adslnation still down! Let's see what they say tomorrow.

[Polchraine]

Armadillo,

Am just catching up ...  Have been to Los Angeles and back this weekend!

The Cables2U does not look like Cat5e but the Kenable one does.



Ted - You mention twists per inch,  you may already know,  but for the benefit for all, in Cat5/5e/6  &c the twist rate for each pair is actually different.   Try stripping down a metre of Cat5e and count the twist on the Blue, Brown, Green and Orange pairs.

[armadillo]

I have another cable, a Belkin double shielded which is wired *2345* *5432* completely backwards, using Blue\Orange pairs   How strange it that!

Isn't that what you get if you keep the cable absolutely flat, no twists, so that whatever writing is on the cable is always on the same side; and then put both plugs face up? Similarly with a phone male to phone male. You have to put a half twist in to avoid the backwards wiring. I really had to think about that when trying to wire a BT male to BT male! Not sure why they used blue/orange for both pairs though 

A Cat5\e is defined not by "if" it is twisted, but rather by "how many" twists per inch it has. So I wouldn't bother too much if it doesn't specifically say TP.

That is exactly the kind of reassurance I was looking for. Thank you. I think I failed to find the full definition of Cat5e because the one I read did not mention that.

Doh! It's Feet not Metres, my bad. I'd looked at so many cables it went over my head.

I feel much the same. I think I shall lose my sanity and be found wandering down the street screaming "Twisted pairs, twisted pairs". Never looked at so many cables in my whole life.

Adslnation still down! Let's see what they say tomorrow.

Great, thanks.

I started trying another experiment today, which I shall continue tomorrow. Thinking outside the box again. I want to try leaving the router where it is (next to the BT master socket) but plugging its little power adapter in 20m away at the UPS. Then cutting the low voltage wire (not while it is connected!) and extending that with 20m of standard electrical two core cable back to where the router is. If that works, I will still want a short Cat5e shielded cable to replace the short RJ11/RJ11 patch cable between filter and router. If it does not work, I will move the router to the UPS and I will need the long 20m one to connect the BT socket to the router. So either way, I will need one of those nice cables.

The reason for preferring to carry the LV 20m rather than the adsl signal 20m is that the 20m LAN connection from router to PC is working really well and I think that a short connection from router to master socket is always going to be the best alternative.

I tried laying 17m of bell wire today, though I did not need to get as far as connecting the router's LV through it. I established that bell wire is not thick enough by connecting a torch battery to a torch bulb via the 20m bell wire. The voltage drop was obvious to the eye. But that stuff only has 0.5mm solid conductors. If I use something like the weight of flex you would use to wire a table lamp, it should have conductors say, 1.5mm dia and hence 9times the cross section and 1/9 the resistance. Then 18m of it would have the same resistance as 2m of bell wire, which is about what there is attached to the adapter that Belkin supply.

Anyway, I think it is well worth a try. I should be able to judge with the torch bulb that the connection is good before I go and cut the LV adapter cable. I will of course use a cable with coloured conductors or coloured insulation so I can make sure I get the polarity correct. I do not care if it invalidates the warranty on the router. They are cheap as chips anyway.

By the way, these cables are really awkward to put in. I have to take them up through little holes I made in the corner of the ceiling coving and then up through the plaster board and into the loft and across. I can use the bell wire to pull through the thicker wiring I am going to try (if the torch test shows it is worth it). If the torch test shows it will not work, then I use the bell wire to pull the Cat5e cable through. I have laminate floors, not carpet, and there is no way I am lifting that stuff and wiring under the floorboards! If I went all round the room perimeters and over door frames instead, I would need 35m. The things we do for a good internet connection!

Fig 1 shows how I have it now

Router in living room is nearly 20m from PC and UPS in office, measured along path of LAN cable through loft.

Fig 2 shows how I hope to get away with extending the LV for the router.
If I do this, I will use a short Cat5e between BT and router.


Fig 3 shows what I will do if I need to use the long Cat5e cable.
I would still leave the long LAN cable in so I can use a laptop in the living room.


In all cases, I will try Clarity's little surge protector on the BT line, if they get it in stock. Will also try Maplin's surge protected adsl microfilter. (Remember this thread is about surge protection?)

Ah well, it is quite satisfying to draw diagrams in Photoshop! Sad eh?

[armadillo]

Welcome back to the UK, Polchraine. I hope you did not lose too much money in LA  

Thanks for the additional info on twists. Would never have believed that cables could be so complicated. I am sure the info within this thread will be useful to others too. So, if adslnation proves unsuitable, I can go with Kenable. Good to know.
Though note that the Cables2U link actually states it is Cat5 (without the "e")
http://www.cables2u.co.uk/very-long-rj11-adsl-broadband-modem-cable-high-specification-p-907.html


You might also like to have a look at my latest crazy idea, complete with diagrams, in reply to Ted's post. I might avoid the need for a long Cat5e cable and end up with just a short one. Comments would be very welcome.

[Ted]

What about wiring Figure 2, like this, no need to cut the LV cable and no worries about voltage drop?

[Ted]

Just spoke to Adslnation. They in fact do a 20m Pro+ cable, but they are changing the design to incorporate shielded plugs. Unfortunately they don't expect any stock for six weeks. The unshielded 20m Pro cables are in stock. With regard to cat5e they say " the cables are twisted to provide optimum performance over the frequencies that ADSL runs at"

If it's feasible I'd go with the figure 2 Scheme, it provides UPS for the router and no fear of unwanted interference with a long RJ11. You could even use one of these 20M Cat6 S/FTP for the lan cable, may be overkill though