Regarding Today's outage and next steps

.Griff. · Oct 20, 2010, 22:38:57

QuoteDear All,

We have suffered several BT faults in the past 10 days. All appear to be due to "human error". Whilst we accept that equipment breaks and, indeed, people make mistakes, it is important that lessons are learned and processes corrected to prevent recurrence. Most important is that mistakes are corrected quickly and we feel that BT has been far too slow on too many occasions when correcting mistakes. Moreover, on each occasion we have given them timely and accurate synopses of the likely root of the fault which has been ignored in favour of following pre-set procedures. In our opinion valuable time was wasted in following unintelligent fault flow-charts fruitlessly. We want to make them listen to us!

Needless to say we would like to sincerely apologise to all of you for these recent outages. Although the outages have been out of our hands, we as the Service Provider have to take responsibility and reassure you, our very valued customers, that we are taking all the measures that we possibly can to avoid the chances of this happening again.

We have requested a meeting with BT Management for these reassurances and we will keep you posted on our discussions. However, it's clear now that we can't rely on BT alone - the risk to our business is too great. Therefore we are in the process of opening discussions with additional suppliers and we will keep you posted on how these discussions progress.

In the meantime, please bare with us, we continue to be committed in providing you with the very best levels of service, and we sincerely believe that despite being repeatedly let down by BT, we are now taking the appropriate measures, to protect us and you, going forward.

Regards
Tim

Firstly let me say a big thank you for making the preceding statement and keeping all your customers informed.

Regarding the following -

QuoteHowever, it's clear now that we can't rely on BT alone - the risk to our business is too great. Therefore we are in the process of opening discussions with additional suppliers and we will keep you posted on how these discussions progress.

I'm extremely happy to see that you're looking into other suppliers. Granted nothing may come of it but it shows you have customers interests at heart and I can only encourage you to pursue this with complete support from me as a customer who's been an LLU user for the past 6 years before joining IDNet and experiencing the lack of end user care BT Wholesale seems to demonstrate on a daily basis.

You obviously know a lot more of the industry than me but I'd encourage you to speak with Be Unlimited who resell their network, AAISP being one example, and anyone who's been a Be customer, directly or indirectly, will vouch for their network.

sn · Oct 21, 2010, 09:43:27

But wouldn't that mean IDNET would loose a whole raft of customers that like me don't have Be LLU in their exchange?

Steve · Oct 21, 2010, 09:51:03

I wondering whether it would be a similar model to AAISP i.e those who have an alternative LLU supplier such as BE at their local exchange would be able to choose that as an alternative carrier to BT.

Arctophile · Oct 21, 2010, 09:54:03

"In the meantime, please bare with us,..."

Personally I'm keeping my clothes on... It's cold out there.

DorsetBoy · Oct 21, 2010, 09:54:44

Quote from: sn on Oct 21, 2010, 09:43:27
But wouldn't that mean IDNET would loose a whole raft of customers that like me don't have Be LLU in their exchange?

No, it means that providers outside of BT provide a link to the net.

pctech · Oct 21, 2010, 09:55:25

But a BE connection fron AAISP is a lot more expensive than a BT one.

Steve · Oct 21, 2010, 09:58:33

But it gives a choice for those who may need it perhaps for reasons of speed or reliability.

Gary · Oct 21, 2010, 10:16:59

For myself I only have the option of Talk Talk LLU or Kijoma WiFi which gives speeds of about 40mb and 20mb down, but that means aerials etc and they are not the easiest company to get in contact with, Justina also is not keen on a large aerial on the chimney, so I can count both those options out

krysia · Oct 21, 2010, 10:31:55

I just want to say how much I appreciate the way IDNet handles problems when they do arise, as has happened over the last week or so with the two BT faults. In the past, when I had another provider and things went wrong, I would be left in limbo, anxious and tense, not knowing when or even if my connection would be restored (or when my phone call to support would be answered). Now, on the very rare occasions when I lose my connection, I feel pretty relaxed, thinking IDNet a) knows it's happening, b) is doing something about it, and c) will make sure it works.

It's so refreshing to deal with a company that shows a genuine commitment to providing an excellent service to its customers. I just hope that Simon and Tim never get fed up and sell the business!

Rudds · Oct 21, 2010, 10:56:28

Quote from: krysia on Oct 21, 2010, 10:31:55
I just want to say how much I appreciate the way IDNet handles problems when they do arise, as has happened over the last week or so with the two BT faults. In the past, when I had another provider and things went wrong, I would be left in limbo, anxious and tense, not knowing when or even if my connection would be restored (or when my phone call to support would be answered). Now, on the very rare occasions when I lose my connection, I feel pretty relaxed, thinking IDNet a) knows it's happening, b) is doing something about it, and c) will make sure it works.

It's so refreshing to deal with a company that shows a genuine commitment to providing an excellent service to its customers. I just hope that Simon and Tim never get fed up and sell the business!

It has to be better than talking to someone in India reading from a script and trying desperately to convince you that the fault is your end or you computer I'll give you that and full marks to Idnet for coming forward and being upfront with the problems. That said running a business myself I would be looking for some serious explanations from my supplier had they upset hundreds if not thousands of my customers by clearly being responsible for the cause of such (intentionally or not). To put a clearer picture if my supplier had upset 50 of my customers to the extent of taking their business elsewhere I would be finished, of that I have no doubt.
Monopoly or not BT have to be dealt with, Idnet I will stick with for now but more outages like these, well who knows.
At the end of the day we are Idnet's customers and therefore they have to keep us happy with the end service they provide, as without income they like me and many others are finished and that's the reality of it.

Idnet have to push BT for some answers and I would suggest some form of compensation, but that's the job of their directors not mine. They have a fine product but need to protect it. And I sincerely hope that they do. I will back them in any way I can.

On another note this forum is a godsend and Rik, Simon and the other guys (sorry if I didn't name you's) do a fantastic job really on Idnets behalf so heres a big thank you to them from me and I guess many others on this forum, THANKS GUYS!

esh · Oct 21, 2010, 11:18:05

Supposedly I can get a Be connection at 13M, which is a little odd since I thought my exchange was only getting DSL2 enabled Q1 next year. Either way, if IDNet do go the way of a Be option it would be tempting for sure.

Rik · Oct 21, 2010, 11:23:11

Quote from: Rudds on Oct 21, 2010, 10:56:28
On another note this forum is a godsend and Rik, Simon and the other guys (sorry if I didn't name you's) do a fantastic job really on Idnets behalf so heres a big thank you to them from me and I guess many others on this forum, THANKS GUYS!

Thanks, we appreciate that.

Ray · Oct 21, 2010, 11:47:24

Thanks, Rudds, greatly appreciated,

MikeSh · Oct 21, 2010, 11:59:03

I prefer to stay with Idnet where I am kept informed promptly as to what is happening in plain English with none of the waffling that I get from some of other companies I have dealt with. Also many thanks to those core forum Idnetters who add that extra bit of info'.

Rik · Oct 21, 2010, 12:18:03

I agree with you, Mike, regarding IDNet, though their attempts to communicate yesterday were hampered by BT's foul up. We try our best to extract and share information here, but at times, our best efforts come to nothing if BT act as idiotically as they did yesterday.

Technical Ben · Oct 21, 2010, 12:48:05

I'd also thank IDNet for looking at the bigger picture, and what is possible to help in the future. Even if the only result is a better relationship with BT. If they can help BT to streamline their fault finding. IE
If it quacks like a duck, check the ducks FIRST. Then, if that is wrong, use the trouble shooting list. However, going straight to the pig pen, then the chicken coop, then the cows, is wasting time when the ducks have flown the coop. Also, BT could do with a double checking system.
When in the bank, and even in other lesser important offices, we had double checked systems. I want to send a large amount of money between customers? It needs to be signed/password actioned by a manager, just to check it has a customer request, correct amount, and is legit. Granted, I've not worked in IT. But having an "undo" button is a godsend.

But I guess, with cutbacks, and rushed jobs, mistakes happen. Unless BT are willing to fork out more on engineers, I don't see how to stop it.

If IDNet do look at other providers of the backend/hardware, it would be interesting. As said, BE are already reselling their equipment in a similar, but more costly, fashion to BT. It's a pity that Talktalk do not resell their LLU connections. As they have a very wide coverage (largest AFAIK) and also supply my exchange. However, Talktalk are on par with BT for service, if you get what I mean.

I suppose the correct way to manage this, is to find a way to grow the relation ship and communication and trust with BT. So that they do their best to not allow this to happen in the future. However, if it's not in BTs interest, or they have no desire to, then we are stuck with them.

pctech · Oct 21, 2010, 12:51:55

I'd imagine bad labelling came into play here somewhere, maybe the live fibre circuit needs a big yellow tag which says 'caution, live customer serving link, DO NOT disconnect'

Rik · Oct 21, 2010, 12:52:42

The amount of money IDNet spend with BT would, you would have thought, got them some serious attention when things go wrong, but it seems BT can't be bothered or don't know how to deal with issues these days, Ben.

Rik · Oct 21, 2010, 12:53:18

Quote from: pctech on Oct 21, 2010, 12:51:55
I'd imagine bad labelling came into play here somewhere, maybe the live fibre circuit needs a big yellow tag which says 'caution, live customer serving link, DO NOT disconnect'

The one which should have been live, but wasn't, probably did, Mitch.

pctech · Oct 21, 2010, 13:02:33

Quote from: Rik on Oct 21, 2010, 12:52:42
The amount of money IDNet spend with BT would, you would have thought, got them some serious attention when things go wrong, but it seems BT can't be bothered or don't know how to deal with issues these days, Ben.

A few years ago I had an idea to start my own ISP so started looking at the costs.

Looking then at the costs of the 622Mbps Centrals made my eyes water as they were at least 500 quid a month each and so I dropped the idea.

Rik · Oct 21, 2010, 13:06:01

I know what you mean, Mitch, but having a whole gig hostlink to yourself does sound fun.

pctech · Oct 21, 2010, 13:14:51

As I say I didn't get onto buying the routers and upstream links.

Technical Ben · Oct 21, 2010, 13:16:22

Quote from: Rik on Oct 21, 2010, 13:06:01
I know what you mean, Mitch, but having a whole gig hostlink to yourself does sound fun.

Not after the last 2 weeks. Unless you like that kind of fun!

On a side note. This is bad publicity for BT too. I'm in two minds about it really. Part of me says "IDNet can be honest, without embarrassing BT by exposing their faults" as this probably does not strengthen their relationship with BT. As BT would want to cover over (in a professional, not underhanded) such errors, fix them quickly, and learn from their mistakes. After all, we don't like it when people point out our faults as we walk down the street.
However, the other part of me says "But BT need to pull their socks up, perhaps making it clear what the fault is, is the only way to get them to do this". This will no doubt damage the relationship with BT. Sometimes the truth hurts, unless your willing to accept it. After all, companies that turn complaints into successes do better than those who don't even get complaints in the first place.

Basically, I'd understand if IDNet just said "BT has had a fault, we are investigating". But they currently go into a lot of detail. Which we are thankful for. I'm just not sure if BT are.

Rik · Oct 21, 2010, 13:17:55

BT probably regard IDNet as pussycats compared to AAISP, Ben, though the latter seem to have moderated their style lately.

Technical Ben · Oct 21, 2010, 13:20:14

As long as they are in our court! All the better. We can play Good ISP, Bad ISP.

You can be both polite, calm, reasonable, and ROCK SOLID in your approach to complaints. I'm sure IDNet is. They would not be here if they were push overs. There are too many cowboys out there looking to rustle up some customers. So IDNets done a good job so far.