High Ping (New Problem) Small amount of Packet Loss(Problem for a while now)

[Westy]

Hey there, been with IDnet for a while and need some help with a few problems.

Firstly, I bought a new PC 2 days ago and installed windows 7. A few hours after i had got it up and running IDNet goes down, and ever since i have been having ping spikes from 30-150. Now i have done a tracert and it seems fairly obvious that the problem is the internet and not the computer, but if theres any other ways to check i will.
If it definitely is the internet, then has anyone else been experiencing the same thing? And knows why or when it will be sorted?


Secondly,  i have been having a big problem with packet loss for a long time. (Only 1-6% packet loss, but it really makes a different when gaming), It started when i was originally with BT. It only happens during peak hours, and is perfectly fine between ofpeak hours (by peak i mean specifically 5 and 12). So after numerous talks with BT they said the problem was either my end (When i had constantly proved it wasn't) Or that up to 25% packet loss is normal (Which is isn't). So at which point i moved to IDNet. For the first month it was fine, no loss or anything. Then after that first month the loss came back again. I contacted IDNet about it once but nothing ended up happening about it. I will contact them directly again but i was just curious as to what people on here had to say about it.

Thanks

[Simon]

Can't help with the tech stuff, sorry, but someone will be along soon. 

[Steve]

Since the recent outage my connection has returned to its normal behaviour with low pings and no packet loss which suggests to me  that the issue is peculiar to your connection  and has been present for sometime. It would be easy to blame local exchange congestion especially since it occurs at peak times.I would collect a series of BT speedtests and evidence of packet loss and send them to support.

[Ray]

 

[psp83]

Secondly,  i have been having a big problem with packet loss for a long time. (Only 1-6% packet loss, but it really makes a different when gaming), It started when i was originally with BT. It only happens during peak hours, and is perfectly fine between ofpeak hours (by peak i mean specifically 5 and 12). So after numerous talks with BT they said the problem was either my end (When i had constantly proved it wasn't) Or that up to 25% packet loss is normal (Which is isn't). So at which point i moved to IDNet. For the first month it was fine, no loss or anything. Then after that first month the loss came back again. I contacted IDNet about it once but nothing ended up happening about it. I will contact them directly again but i was just curious as to what people on here had to say about it.

Thanks

I've been getting the same since the new bandwidth allowance came in.

For example :






I have contacted IDnet about the packet loss and the response I got back wasn't that great to be honest.

[Rik]

In what way, Paul? Your graphs seem to be indicating the packet loss starts at midnight, when most ISPs switch to off-peak rates and all the big downloads start. That's bound to produce some congestion if the exchange isn't lightly loaded in the first place.

[psp83]

It also happens in the evenings between 7pm - 11pm, its only 1% - 5% but that does cause problems playing games or streaming stuff.

Remember my justin.tv streaming problems? it only happens when the monitor shows packet loss. I can no longer watch iPlayer between midnight and 2am now when I used to use the offpeak time to catch up on programs missed, it constantly buffers / stutters all the time.

[esh]

On some occasions I have started suffering packet loss at peak times also, but I haven't seen it for about a week now so I am monitoring that. My ping is still on average 3x higher than it was before the incident, though it is still quite low. Perhaps I am on a different VP or something, I don't know.

[Rik]

Remember my justin.tv streaming problems? it only happens when the monitor shows packet loss. I can no longer watch iPlayer between midnight and 2am now when I used to use the offpeak time to catch up on programs missed, it constantly buffers / stutters all the time.

All of which suggests exchange congestion. What did support say?

[Rik]

On some occasions I have started suffering packet loss at peak times also, but I haven't seen it for about a week now so I am monitoring that. My ping is still on average 3x higher than it was before the incident, though it is still quite low. Perhaps I am on a different VP or something, I don't know.

Do two or three BT speedtests, add in a tracert to www.idnet.net and let support have the results, esh. Nothing which happened over the past couple of weeks should affect ping times, unless there's a local issue.

[psp83]

All of which suggests exchange congestion. What did support say?

My speed and tracerts are all  normal thou.. speed always around 4.6mb on a 5000 profile and tracerts always come back under 20ms. Its just the packet loss is the issue.

Support didn't comment on packet loss in the evening just on the issue after midnight.

Hi Paul

Midnight is when many ISPs switch to the "off-peak" download tariff which seems to cause a surge in download activity which causes congestion.

Regards
Simon

Thats all was said and to be honest is no used to me, I would just like to be able to use my connection when I want to, not have to stay up to certain times to use it.

[Rik]

LLU?

[psp83]

Do two or three BT speedtests, add in a tracert to www.idnet.net and let support have the results, esh. Nothing which happened over the past couple of weeks should affect ping times, unless there's a local issue.

I've done all that, followed all the steps given by Brian and basically get no where even when I do give links to my tbb monitor showing increased ping times and packet loss.

I've got nothing againts IDnet, I like them. I just want my old connection back where I didn't have to worry on the time of day when to use certain part of the net.

[psp83]

LLU?

I would but there's only cheap nasty ones on our exchange.

AOL:	Enabled
O2 / Be:	Not available
C&W / Bulldog:	Not available
Edge Telecom:	Not available
Entanet:	Not available
Lumison:	Not available
NewNet:	Not available
Node4:	Not available
Orange:	Enabled as of 17/12/2007
Pipex:	Not available
Sky / Easynet:	Enabled as of 27/03/2007
Smallworld:	Not available
TalkTalk (CPW):	Enabled
Tiscali:	Enabled as of 01/05/2008
Tiscali TV:	Enabled as of 01/05/2008
WB Internet:	Not available
Zen Internet:	Not available

[sof2er]

@Westy, when your ping problem starts could you post your tracert to the server, your pathping to the server. Make sure you're using a wired connection and disconnect all other devices, it's possible that some other device might be interfering. 

(tracert 1.2.3.4 and pathping 1.2.3.4 -q 25)

@paul
I've had a very good ping and no packet loss after previous weeks major outage but after wednesday's outage my ping has increased by 3-4 ms and I'm getting constant packetloss throughout the day.



We've had a topic before on packet loss and it's sure it has something to do with peak times and off peak as all the packetloss graphs were similiar indicating nothing to do with exchange congestion.

[psp83]

We've had a topic before on packet loss and it's sure it has something to do with peak times and off peak as all the packetloss graphs were similiar indicating nothing to do with exchange congestion.

My ping has also increased from 13 ms to 18ms but I've been seeing the packet loss for alot longer.

I know its not my end causing the packet loss & I'm refusing to spend money on yet another router, I've bought 2 already this year and get the same with both connected.

And as you say and looking at other IDnet customer tbb monitors, the packet loss is nearly the same on every one. But I don't seem to be getting anywhere when reporting this issue.

Even when I was with Tiscali I never saw constant packet loss on them, only when there was network issues.

[Westy]

C:\Users\Westy>tracert www.bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.244.71]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

 1    <1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  192.168.0.1
 2    33 ms    32 ms    34 ms  telehouse-gw4-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.99]
 3    34 ms    33 ms    32 ms  telehouse-gw5-e4-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.245]
 4    34 ms    33 ms    32 ms  rt-lonap-a.thdo.bbc.co.uk [193.203.5.90]
 5    32 ms    31 ms    33 ms  212.58.238.129
 6    42 ms    52 ms    52 ms  212.58.239.58
 7    38 ms    43 ms    61 ms  212.58.251.44
 8    34 ms    33 ms    33 ms  bbc-vip116.telhc.bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.71]

Trace complete.

That one is just a small spike, but it does go up to 100+ sometimes

Heres a better one


C:\Users\Westy>tracert www.bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.90]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms     1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    55 ms    46 ms    39 ms  telehouse-gw4-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.99]
  3    45 ms    54 ms    46 ms  telehouse-gw5-e4-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.245]
  4    51 ms    68 ms    66 ms  rt-lonap-a.thdo.bbc.co.uk [193.203.5.90]
  5    59 ms    70 ms    80 ms  212.58.238.129
  6    68 ms    84 ms   104 ms  te12-1.hsw0.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.222]
  7   104 ms   118 ms   110 ms  212.58.255.12
  8    79 ms    85 ms    90 ms  bbc-vip011.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [212.58.246.90]

Trace complete.

[Rik]

That could just be the BBC routers being busy, Westy. Try a tracert to www.idnet.net.

[Glenn]

Didn't Simon, a while back,  suggest running ping tests to the secondary DNS server?

[Rik]

Or that.

[Westy]

That could just be the BBC routers being busy, Westy. Try a tracert to www.idnet.net.

C:\Users\Westy>tracert www.idnet.net

Tracing route to www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    32 ms    32 ms    32 ms  telehouse-gw4-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.99]
  3    35 ms    64 ms    37 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

  4    35 ms    33 ms    33 ms  telehouse-gw5-e4-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.245]
  5    40 ms    35 ms    50 ms  redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
  6    78 ms    42 ms    36 ms  redbus-gw1-fa2-0-300.idnet.net [212.69.63.225]
  7    35 ms    63 ms   111 ms  www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]

Trace complete.

[Rik]

By comparison:

tracert www.idnet.net

Tracing route to www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     2 ms    <1 ms     1 ms  192.168.1.254
  2    15 ms    13 ms    14 ms  telehouse-gw4-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.99]
  3    14 ms    13 ms    13 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

  4    14 ms    11 ms    13 ms  telehouse-gw5-e4-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.245]
  5    14 ms    13 ms    13 ms  redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
  6    16 ms    15 ms    14 ms  redbus-gw1-fa2-0-300.idnet.net [212.69.63.225]
  7    13 ms    13 ms    13 ms  www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]

Trace complete.

Is your line interleaved do you know? One thing I can say is that the routers give ICMP traffic a low priority, so you may just have been unlucky. Try another two or three traces at different times of the day and let support have the results, they can then test your line (make sure your router responds to ICMP traffic).

[Westy]

By comparison:

tracert www.idnet.net

Tracing route to www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     2 ms    <1 ms     1 ms  192.168.1.254
  2    15 ms    13 ms    14 ms  telehouse-gw4-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.99]
  3    14 ms    13 ms    13 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

  4    14 ms    11 ms    13 ms  telehouse-gw5-e4-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.245]
  5    14 ms    13 ms    13 ms  redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
  6    16 ms    15 ms    14 ms  redbus-gw1-fa2-0-300.idnet.net [212.69.63.225]
  7    13 ms    13 ms    13 ms  www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]

Trace complete.

Is your line interleaved do you know? One thing I can say is that the routers give ICMP traffic a low priority, so you may just have been unlucky. Try another two or three traces at different times of the day and let support have the results, they can then test your line (make sure your router responds to ICMP traffic).

I have interleaving turned off. And the high pings spikes has been constant for the last 3/4 days, yet no problem before the downtime.

[Rik]

How often did you test? As I say, let support have a few traces and they'll check your line - provided your router responds to ICMP. Have you any background tasks running?

[esh]

For the record, my ping times have finally settled back to ~7ms, and the packet loss is very sporadic. Typically 7pm-1am with peaks of 2% on 1 minute sample averages but over the entire period it is actually < 0.01% ie. negligible.

Westy, I assume you've tried a ping -n 100 192.168.1.0 from your PC to router just to ensure there aren't any spikes there. You've probably done that already, but it's always a good confidence booster to know it's not your side of the router. I presume you've reset the line by leaving it off for 30 mins/overnight/whatever. I would say something is definitely up if you get more than 100ms to idnet.net, I was always around 20ms even when interleaved, and it is sometimes in single figures.