Noise problems on internal wiring

[Tanzanite]

I'm still waiting for mine, should be 'live' today. I'm sat here waiting LOL

[Rik]

Don't hold your breath, Tanzy, BT screwed up on mine and I didn't make it until the following morning.

[Tanzanite]

Argh, nooo, don't tell me that!  Still got 2 hours yet, so fingers crossed.

[Rik]

That's about what I was thinking on November 2.

[Tanzanite]

  Knowing my luck it'll be this time next week  and breathe...

[Rik]

It's worth a call to support, Tanzy, they can probably find out what's going on and start to apply pressure if needs be. I take it you're still connected to your old ISP OK? Have you tried the idnet login?

[Tanzanite]

Still on AOL at the mo, haven't tried connecting to Idnet yet, thought AOL would go dead and then I'd have to connect to Idnet?

[DorsetBoy]

 I was going to say, you could already be transferred ,BT seem to be leaving the old isp connected rather a lot recently.

Support will email when they know you are officially migrated.

[Rik]

As Dorset says, Tanzy, IDNet will tell you when they get told, but there's every chance you might find the IDNet login is working, and that BT just haven't thrown the SSB switch yet - worth a try.

If you're coming in from AOL, your MTU is probably set at 1400, you need to reset that and RWIN. Ask if you need advice.

[Tanzanite]

Woohoo! I'm now connected  I tried connecting but no joy, so I tried reconnecting to AOL but couldn't connect to that either then all of a the sudden Idnet connection worked.

Yep, just about to do the MTU etc.

Dances off...

[Rik]

I'm glad it's happened for you, Tanzy. Welcome to happy land.

[Inactive]

Welcome Tanzy, glad it all worked OK for you.

[Tanzanite]

Ty.

I've changed the MTU to 1458 which tcp optimizer said it should be. I'm still getting terrible speeds which are swinging about constantly from about 9960kbs to 2.54mb. I used to get almost 5mb when I first went on MAX with AOL (only had that speed for a few weeks though) Puzzled now. I changed my filters last week to the recommended ones, can't remember what they are, I know they have a X in there somewhere LOL

I know my line supports up to 5mb.

[Rik]

Hi Tanzy

You're probably talking about ADSL Nation's xf-1e? I recommend them above anything else I've used.

What did you set RWIN to (and what is the MTU on your router, 1500 is best)? I'd suggest a value of 65228.

Can you get a BT speed test, that will tell us what your profile is doing.

[Tanzanite]

Yep ADSL Nation ones.

Ok, MTU is 1500 on the router, MTU on laptop 1458. I set the RWIN to what you recommended as I find it harder to get my head around than the MTU!

BT speed test:

IP profile for your line is - 2000 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  3584 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1866 kbps


Router stats:

Statistics Downstream Upstream 
Line Rate 3584 Kbps 448 Kbps 
Noise Margin 16.1 dB 20.0 dB 
Line Attenuation 42.0 dB 21.0 dB 
Output Power 18.4 dBm 12.1 dBm 
 
Funnily enough and it can't be coincidence, that problem I had playing java games is gone, it still wasn't working earlier today but since switching to Idnet, I can play again 

[Rik]

OK, you may have to show some patience for a few days, Tanzy. Your profile is not reflecting your connection speed, and should be up at 3000. Your noise margin is also high, so if it's still the same tomorrow, try re-booting the router and, if that doesn't lower the margin, have a word with support - it may be that BT have set it high.

Remember not to re-connect more than nine times an hour, 10 or more re-syncs will kick DLM into life on your line and trigger a downward movement in your profile. For a 42db attenuation line, you should definitely get a higher speed unless there's a lot of noise around.

[Tanzanite]

I did wonder whether I'd need to wait a few days.
If still no better by Mon will contact Idnet.

I turned my sky+ box off and noticed the noise on the line went down by 1db. I have an a/c unit on the wall near the router too but I turned that off and the noise didn't go down.

Just have to wait and see how it goes over next few days. Just grateful I can get all this help from you all and good customer service from Idnet! Thank you.

By the way, how long did you hold out on the choccie?! 

[Rik]

Hi Tanzy

In theory, a migration should just bring your profile with it, so I would speak to support tomorrow if things haven't changed. Sky boxes are notorious for ADSL issues, btw, if you don't need it connected, don't connect it. If you do, try two filters in series.

We're glad to help if we can, it's what the forum is about.

As to the chocolate, about 2 hours, but only because lunch was in the middle.

[Tanzanite]

Further to my speed problem: Miriram told me to try a few things but have had no joy. Going to try one more router but if not, BT will be making a call out.

Weirdly though, my router stats this morning are:
Statistics Downstream Upstream 
Line Rate 3392 Kbps 448 Kbps 
Noise Margin 16.4 dB 21.0 dB 
Line Attenuation 15.5 dB 21.0 dB 
Output Power 18.6 dBm 12.1 dBm


Why has my line attenuation gone way down to 15.5 when it was 43 yesterday and every day before that? What does it mean?

I'm also getting tons of disconnects. One happened just now when my phone rang. But I've tried it without the phone and it keeps happening anyway.

[Rik]

Hi Tanzy

Those figures don't make a lot of sense, if that attenuation were correct, you should be synching at a much higher speed. It may be as simple as the router mis-reporting, but, tbh, I don't know.

If you are getting disconnects when the phone rings, I would suggest trying another filter and also connecting at the test socket if you have an NTE5 master socket. Take a look at this for detailed instructions.

[Tanzanite]

I've tried 3 different types of filters. The best one is one which has 3 slots, one for a modem, and 2 seperate ones for 2 phones/sky etc the ADSL nation ones didn't make a difference but this one with 3 slots plus surge protection seems to help slightly.

I've tried taking everything out and turning electrical stuff off and just using the router on main socket, still no joy. Just got an old router to try in main socket after that I have no idea apart from BT taking a look, just obviously worried they sting me with a call out charge when they say it's my fault lol.

My sync speed used to be in the region of 5880-6550kbps when I first went on MAX so I know it's capable of getting there.

The disconnects are getting worse, had 2 so far today. Does it sound like a faulty line?

[Rik]

Hi Tanzy

When you say the main socket, do you mean the master, or the test socket (if you have an NTE5). The difference with the test socket is critical as that automatically disconnects your internal wiring and removes that from the equation. If you still have a problem at the test socket, then it's probably a line fault, but if you are using the master, then it could be down to your internal wiring.

If it is your wiring, you will get a bill from BT, so it's essential to try and eliminate it before calling them out (via IDNet).

[Tanzanite]

Hiya,

Master socket, I mean, sorry. Not sure if it is a test socket or not yet. It's downstairs, and I'm upstairs and I'm chronically ill so can't manage it myself, very limited in what I can do, so will have to get someone else to try that.

[Rik]

Hi Tanzy

If no-one unscrewed anything, then it would have been the master socket not the test socket. That would mean your internal phone wiring was 'in play' and could be picking up noise. Ideally, you want to eliminate that possibility before getting BT in, as the charge is quite steep these days for fixing internal wiring issues.

Do you have anyone around you who could make the test for you?

[Tanzanite]

I have someone who can do it but it'll probably be the weekend. Just be nice to get it all sorted!

By the way on the advanced tab on network connections there's a throughput enhancement thing, it was on disabled so I changed it to enable and speed was slightly faster. That's ok to do isn't it?

[Tanzanite]

Ok, got someone to open it up, there's no test socket. Doesn't surprise me. I live in an old house (1800's) don't think the sockets have been changed for years and years. I know about 3 yrs ago I had a fault on the line and they changed wires but not sure if that was to the master socket or the one upstairs.

Electricity wiring near the phone socket upstairs was changed recently so that's all new.

So what's left for me to try? Just my other router on the main socket? If still no luck get BT out?

Oh and what is the best router to get incase I need to get yet another one? I have a BT voyager 2110 at mo, old one is a Thomson speedtouch. I've heard you can have probs with netgear and linksys are best.

[Rik]

By the way on the advanced tab on network connections there's a throughput enhancement thing, it was on disabled so I changed it to enable and speed was slightly faster. That's ok to do isn't it?

Well, it won't do any harm, Tanzy, but I have no idea what it does do, sorry.

[Rik]

Ok, got someone to open it up, there's no test socket. Doesn't surprise me. I live in an old house (1800's) don't think the sockets have been changed for years and years. I know about 3 yrs ago I had a fault on the line and they changed wires but not sure if that was to the master socket or the one upstairs.

Well, we know your options for testing are limited, so it'll save me asking you to try the test socket.

Electricity wiring near the phone socket upstairs was changed recently so that's all new.

How close is it to the socket and, more importantly, does is run parallel to the phone wiring, if so how close? That is potentially the source of noise pickup, if that's happening, it will force your sync speed lower and, ultimately your profile and throughput.

So what's left for me to try? Just my other router on the main socket? If still no luck get BT out?

If you can do it, it's worth trying, but the difference between the main socket and any extension is usually minimal - it's the test socket which has magic properties. If anyone can remove the bell wire (terminal 3) at both sockets, that might help things.

Oh and what is the best router to get incase I need to get yet another one? I have a BT voyager 2110 at mo, old one is a Thomson speedtouch. I've heard you can have probs with netgear and linksys are best.

I had problem with a Draytek when I moved to Max, and switched to a Netgear (it helps that they sponsor Northampton Saints ). IDNet supply Netgears, so they can't be too bad. That said, Max seems to have torn the rule book up on routers. I'd personally recommend Netgear and Speedtouch, however, other people like D-Links, Zyxels etc. It's unfortunately a case of finding what works best on your line. The theory is that if you can match the chipset used in the DSLAM your connected to, it will help. How true that is I have never been able to establish. In my case, my Netgear holds sync right down to a -4db noise margin. At -5db, it will re-sync. I have a neighbour with a Speedtouch which will not sync at 5db. Recommendations are, therefore, a bit of a minefield.

[Tanzanite]

The leccy socket is 12 inches away from the phone point but the leccy socket is on the skirting board and the phone point is just above the skirting on the wall. But yes they are both on a straight line apart from the phone point being slightly higher up than the leccy socket.

That leccy socket was rewired approx 3mths ago but I had the speed problems before then.

Thanks for your help.

[Rik]

That wiring arrangement is not ideal, Tanzy, preferably mains and phone wires should run at right angles to each other. However, if you had problems before the wiring work was done, then we need to investigate further. At this point, the best action you can take is to get the ring wire removed from terminal three on all sockets. It's usually, but not always, orange/white. If that makes a significant difference we know that your wiring is picking up noise. It may be enough to remove the ring wire, it may require more complex re-wiring.

[Tanzanite]

Hmm, no ones confident with removing wires and as most people aren't that techy I think most wouldn't do that so think I'll leave that sort of thing to BT.

I have my eye on this router but not sure if it's suitable, no mention of pppoa. What do you think? http://www.essanet.com/Shop/Specifications.asp?ProductID=4080

[Rik]

Hi Tanzy

In the broadest of terms, what part of the country are you in? It's possible that a member here might be reasonably near you and be able to help out.

As to the router, I personally would not buy a pre-N model myself, particularly when the spec is headed with:

"Wireless Capability

    * This product uses the draft version of the upcoming 802.11n standard. Its compatibility with other and future products is not guaranteed, and it may interfere with current 802.11b and g products. "

Belkins became very popular for a while with people using the DMT tool, but I see few reports on them now.

[Tanzanite]

I'm in Dorset, but it's fine don't worry, think I'll just get BT out.

I've looked at lots of routers but they all have reviews that don't recommend them, hard to know what to get unless reviews mostly say it's good. The Bt voyager one I have doesn't really cut it to be honest. It's a fairly large house with lots of walls and it's an old house and the signal barely reaches down the landing! Which is why I need one that can reach a long way. There's other pc's in the house and the signal is terrible.

[Rik]

Hi Tanzy

There might be someone who could help you, I'll ask around.

From what you say, you might need to consider a more complicated setup, with 'repeaters' around the house. If you only need access at a limited number of places, it might be better to wire the house with Cat 5 cable?

[Tanzanite]

Update:

After trying practically everything, I now have a new linksys router and I'm now getting this from the router:
Downstream Rate: 4128 kbps (improvement!)
Upstream Rate: 448 kbps
Downstream Margin: 15 db
Upstream Margin: 25 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 41 db
Upstream Line Attenuation: 11 db

Obviously this must be a better router for my line than my old ones. Though the sync speed used to be 5850-6500 when I first went on MAX so still not quite there yet.

However, BT test says this: IP profile for your line is - 1500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  4128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1394 kbps

Which is worse than ever!

I am pretty sure I have isolated the problem, and it seems to be a faulty line as I have noise and echo (can hear my own voice) on the phone. I have plugged just the phone in and even bought a new phone and it's still there. I had this problem 3-4 yrs ago (when I wasn't on broadband) and they replaced the line, seems it needs doing again for some reason.

So next thing is BT......

[Rik]

Hi Tanzy

You sync speed, and therefore throughput, is being held artificially low by the d/s noise margin, which has been raised to the highest setting of 15db from 6db. This is almost certainly due to instability, ie repeated loss of connection. If you can maintain your connection, or at least avoid any low sync events, for three days, then your profile will increase to 3500.

To get back to your higher speed, you will need to get IDNet to have your target noise margin reduced again, but it isn't worth doing this until you have resolved the line problems. Whether that entails a BT engineer depends on what happens over the next few days. Remember that a low sync event or frequent disconnections will trigger downward movements of your profile, so watch for the former and avoid the latter, ie don't be tempted to re-boot the router every few minutes to try and improve things.

[Tanzanite]

How come everywhere I've read online says the higher the noise margin the better? That 29db is the optimum?

It's just disconnected and the sync speed has gone down again. Obviously not going to get sorted until the faulty lines fixed, just about to ring BT to test the line.

[Rik]

Hi Tanzy

A high noise margin was always the ideal for fixed-rate lines. Max, however, looks to work with as low a margin as it can, and then drive the speed higher. The noise margin will be determined by line stability.

It's no good calling BT yourself, except for voice faults. To get an ADSL-trained engineer, you need to ask IDNet to arrange the visit.

[Tanzanite]

Miriam told me to contact BT myself about the noisey phone part then if they can find no fault they will sort out the broadband on my behalf.

[Rik]

Makes sense, but don't mention broadband when you call the report in!

[Tanzanite]

I haven't, I remembered what you said before on some thread about not saying a word about BB! LOL

I reported the fault online instead of ringing and getting press 1 for this and 2 for that etc etc, yawn! At least I can keep an eye on it as and when I want to see if they're doing anything about it.

[Rik]

Good luck. In the meantime, you can try dialling 17070 and selecting the quiet line test - that may give you a clue on line quality.

[Tanzanite]

Ok, had BT just ring me, surprise surprise they can't find a fault. They then started saying try this, try that, I said I have done all that over the past week and he said sounds like you've tried everything and he's arranged an engineer to come out Mon afternoon.

Oh, never heard of that before, will give it a go, thanks.

[Rik]

Let's hope the engineer can find something. Hint that you would really like an NTE5... 

[Tanzanite]

LOL Will do!

I'm sure it would be much easier to move house than all this!

[Rik]

You may have a point there, Tanzy. I know when I move next, I'll be checking the BB connection before signing the contract.

[Tanzanite]

HELP!!! We DO have a test socket. Just plugged the router in it, these are the stats: Downstream Rate: 5248 kbps
Upstream Rate: 448 kbps
Downstream Margin: 14 db
Upstream Margin: 25 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 43 db
Upstream Line Attenuation: 11 db

Also, plugging a phone in the test socket, there's no noise.

So what do I do now? I've made myself ill over all this, I'm exhausted. I've done everything so what's the problem then? I have no idea what to do.

[Rik]

You can let the voice visit go ahead to resolve any issues there might be on the line, but the difference in the sync speed plus the absence of noise suggests your internal wiring may be at the heart of your problems. Apart from disconnecting the ring wire, the best solution would involve re-wiring or moving the router to the test socket and then running Category 5 cabling to the computer, or trying to get wireless working throughout the house.

[Tanzanite]

It's not possible to have cables all over the house to the computers. I'm going to see if my Dad can remove the ring wire.

I don't see the point in having BT out when there's no noise on a phone and the routers stats are ok using the test socket, I can't afford a call out charge when it looks like it's something to do with my wiring. I just dont understand what's causing the noise when I have tried 4 lots of filters, 3 routers, 4 phones, unplugged everything except the router etc etc I just dont get it.

[Rik]

Hi Tanzy

Have a read through the internal wiring guide here. The problem is that, if your internal wiring is not well 'made' it can add attenuation and noise to the line, this will cause your ADSL to become unstable. Disconnecting the ring wire at every socket is a good place to start. However, if the noise on your phone is present when you are not using the test socket, try disconnecting the router. If the noise stops, chances are that you have a bad filter (though I know of cases where it's actually been a line fault).

How many wired extensions do you have? The more there are, the more noise they can put on the line. I know this is a very basic question, but you have remembered to filter everything that connects to the line haven't you? It's easy to forget, so I have to ask.

[Tanzanite]

I've read that already thanks.

I have a master socket downstairs with sky box in with a filter. Upstairs is the phone socket I use for the router , sky+ box and phone. They all have a filter. Well, it's one filter with 3 holes for sky box, phone and router thats the best filter, I've tried 4 lots.

I've disconnected everything except the phone when using the test socket, no noise or echo. Then I put the router in on it's own , nothing else in any phone socket. Sync speed is what it should be, pretty much.

[Rik]

The best filters I have used, Tanzy, have been the ADSL nation xf-1e. That said, what happens when you connect a phone and the router at the test socket, does the line remain stable, do you hear noises on the phone? If things are OK there, try the router in its normal place, with the same filter and phone. Still OK? Start plugging in other devices one at a time until you spot problems. If it's not OK with just the router and phone in your normal socket, then your wiring is the issue.

[Tanzanite]

The best filters I have used, Tanzy, have been the ADSL nation xf-1e. That said, what happens when you connect a phone and the router at the test socket, does the line remain stable, do you hear noises on the phone?

I found the ADSL nation worse than the one with 3 places and surge protected. Yes line is stable, no noises.

If things are OK there, try the router in its normal place, with the same filter and phone. Still OK? Start plugging in other devices one at a time until you spot problems. If it's not OK with just the router and phone in your normal socket, then your wiring is the issue.

No, not ok with same filter and phone in normal place. I've done things one at a time, still have problems. What wiring is interfering with it though as I've tested everything one at a time and have the problem with everything and one at a time.

Edit: Markup fixed

[Rik]

Hi Tanzy

When you use the test socket, you disconnect all your internal phone wiring and connect directly to the exchange pair. Once you replace the faceplate, all your telephone extension wiring is re-connected. If the problem occurs at this point, then your wiring is either picking up noise, in which case disconnecting the ring wire may help, or it has some bad joints on it, in which case it needs re-wiring.

I had a stable, fixed-rate connection for three months, then it just died. A BT engineer came out and tested at the exchange pair, the signal was fine. He fitted an NTE5 and tried from the master, no ADSL. He then re-worked the wiring, losing some of the sockets I no longer need (gone DECT, so don't need a socket in most rooms), and got me to the point where there was no difference between the test socket and the socket I normally use. Since then I've had no problems, except external ones.

From what you say, your problem is in your wiring, but I can't tell you if it's noise pickup or a physical connection issue - the best you can do is disconnect the ring wire and see if that helps.

[Tanzanite]

I have a DECT but only need one.

I think what I'll do is disconnect the ring wire as you've said, I've ordered ADSL nation filtered faceplates so put those in as well, well, my Dad will have a go! DorsetBoy is on standby to help if need be, can't believe how nice and helpful everyone on here are! 

If that all fails then maybe BT will have to have a look because  I really have tried everything else.
No doubt I shall be back next week with an update. Fingers crossed this sorts it out!

Thanks for everything, so grateful. You're all  LOL

[Rik]

Hi Tanzy

Don't fit a filtered faceplate in place of your current master socket. Unless I've misunderstood you, the master is downstairs and router upstairs? The filtered faceplate would take ADSL off the wire which runs upstairs.

You could use it in place of the upstairs socket, so that you don't need a filter there.

I was hoping Dorset might not be too far from you.

I don't know about angels, but we are here to help each other...

[Tanzanite]

Yes, the master socket downstairs has a sky box in it, thats it. Upstairs socket has router,  sky+ box and phone in.

Not sure what you mean by taking adsl off the wire. The noisy line is on both sockets (just not the test socket).

[Rik]

Hi Tanzy

The filtered face plate does the same job as a plug in filter. All your extension wiring will connect to the filtered side of the face plate and have no ADSL signal. Only the RJ11/ADSL socket on the faceplate would give your router a signal. The only way round that would be to run a cable from the filtered side up to where your router is.

[Tanzanite]

Ah, ok. So just fit the faceplate on the socket upstairs, gotcha.

[Rik]

That's it, Tanzy. 

[MoHux]

I don't know about such things, never having had one, but what is the REN number of a Sky-box??  Tanzy has two on the system.
One thing I haven't seen since the advent of ADSL, is what effect a too high a REN (used to be 4 max') would have on the connection.  Does removing the ring-wire disable/lower the REN (Ringer Equivalence Number)?

She said she plugged in to the test socket, but I thought the Master was downstairs??

Just thinking out loud really ................ 

[Rik]

Hi Mo

Sky boxes are rated as a REN of 1, but like most modern devices are actually a fraction of that. In addition, they don't actually respond to a ring signal, so may draw no current when one is present. Over-loading REN should have no effect on ADSL, since it only affects the ring voltage when it's on the line (though that, like the voice signal, would be presented to the router, which makes me think that routers/modems have a high-pass filter built in).

Afaik, Tanzy moved her router downstairs, unless I misunderstood her.

[Tanzanite]

Yes, I moved the router downstairs to the test socket just to test it.

[Tanzanite]

By the way, Rik, this new email addys. Will the idnetfreemail ones still be active or do I have to change them all again?

[Rik]

Hi Tanzy

Thanks for the confirmation on the test socket.

The older idnetfreemail addresses will still be functional, so you don't have to change anything, you just can't create any new addresses on that domain.

There may come a time, and I have no knowledge on this I'm just thinking aloud, when IDNet will feel that they need to cease the idnetfreemail domain, but I am sure they would give us plenty of warning. If you're anything like me, you choose the account you send on and people reply to it, so it's only critical where you register an address with a website etc.

[Tanzanite]

Yes, pretty much the same as you with email. Thanks for the info.

Just rang BT, they confirmed it's my problem and I'd have to pay a charge for them to fix it. They said it's a common problem with extension sockets and the extension socket needs rewiring and it'd be cheaper to get an electrician who knows about phone sockets to do it.So cancelled Mon's visit, shouldn't be too much of a problem with getting an electrician, my Dad knows loads of them. Maybe they can do the ring wire and fit the filtered faceplate at the same time.So getting there slowly!

Do wish people at BT wouldn't call me Ma'am though! Feel like a right old duffer 

[Rik]

Hi Tanzy

Yes, pretty much the same as you with email. Thanks for the info.

Nae bother.

Just rang BT, they confirmed it's my problem and I'd have to pay a charge for them to fix it. They said it's a common problem with extension sockets and the extension socket needs rewiring and it'd be cheaper to get an electrician who knows about phone sockets to do it.So cancelled Mon's visit, shouldn't be too much of a problem with getting an electrician, my Dad knows loads of them. Maybe they can do the ring wire and fit the filtered faceplate at the same time.So getting there slowly!

Be wary of electricians who don't know enough about phones. You need to ensure that they use the right cable, CW1308, and that they don't split the pairs. That said, the task itself is simple enough. You may find there are specialist companies in Yellow Pages for phone/network wiring - they seem to be a growth industry these days.

Do wish people at BT wouldn't call me Ma'am though! Feel like a right old duffer 

I have the same problem with 'Sir'. I keep thinking they must mean my father.

[Tanzanite]

I'll only be 30 in Sept, don't feel like a Ma'am just yet  First it was Lady when I was about 20, I used to look around thinking it must be someone else, looks like I'm past it now 

I did have a quick look under electricians and some of them say they do BT sockets, is that good enough? LOL

I need a man who's handy lmao.

[Rik]

I'll only be 30 in Sept, don't feel like a Ma'am just yet 

A mere stripling!

I did have a quick look under electricians and some of them say they do BT sockets, is that good enough? LOL

It should be, but remember to specify that cable you want, either CW1308 (phone wire) or possibly Category 5/5e network cable, which can give better performance.

I need a man who's handy lmao.

Don't we all, there's things I can do and things I'd really rather not do and then there's things I can't do...

[Tanzanite]

LOL funnily enough when I was around 17 people thought I looked much older and I used to get into clubs for over 25's  Nowadays they think I look younger!

I think my moan on the phone to BT did something. 45mins ago I had a BT engineer turn up (and on a Sat too!) he had a quick look, and confirmed I need a new extension socket upstairs due to faulty wiring, he recommended an ex BT man who could do it at a really good price (approx £35), he also fixed the wire outside that was flapping in the wind for free.

Though when he opened up the master socket then put it back , my sync speed went plummeting down to 160kbps  so when he went, mum opened it back up, gave the wires a wiggle, put it back and sync speed shot up to 4416 kbps lol the best it's ever been since the noise on the line, though of course I'll have to wait a few days for the actual speed to go back up though I doubt it will due to disconnections. It's soooooooooooo slow, it's just under dial up speed now 

[Rik]

LOL funnily enough when I was around 17 people thought I looked much older and I used to get into clubs for over 25's  Nowadays they think I look younger!

Which all goes to show that Einstein was right all along.

I think my moan on the phone to BT did something. 45mins ago I had a BT engineer turn up (and on a Sat too!) he had a quick look, and confirmed I need a new extension socket upstairs due to faulty wiring, he recommended an ex BT man who could do it at a really good price (approx £35), he also fixed the wire outside that was flapping in the wind for free.

Did he say what the fault was?

Though when he opened up the master socket then put it back , my sync speed went plummeting down to 160kbps  so when he went, mum opened it back up, gave the wires a wiggle, put it back and sync speed shot up to 4416 kbps lol the best it's ever been since the noise on the line

Well, that suggests loose wires or poor contacts. It might be worth getting a new master socket fitted, or at least draw the attention of the ex-BT guy to what happened.

[Tanzanite]

He just said that the extension socket is faulty (the wires anyway) and I need a new one. Common problem apparently.

I think the ex Bt man said he would fit a new master socket and use a filtered faceplate (had to cancel my order for the one's I ordered yesterday) and do something to it that would make the new extension upstairs filtered too. Something like that anyway LOL

He's coming Tues afternoon and said my internet will fly when he's finished with it  Sorting broadband probs is his favourite job. Sounds like he knows what he's doing.

By the way, call me Eve 

[Rik]

Hi Eve

Sounds like you've got hold of someone good there, I'll be interested to hear how your figures are once he's done the work (and also what he actually ends up doing). The problem with the wiring that most of us have is that it was installed long before ADSL was thought of, and while it was fine for voice, it's just not good enough for ADSL. Of course, Max tests things even more. I want fibre to the home.

[Tanzanite]

I'll try and take notes to give you a full report on what he's done 

Well fibre's meant to be good for every body (sorry bad joke!)

[Rik]

I expect more than notes, Eve. I want full diagrams, photographs and maybe a movie!

As to fibre, welcome to the club! 

[Tanzanite]

I expect more than notes, Eve. I want full diagrams, photographs and maybe a movie!

You'd get a surprise then if I did actually take pics and a movie! 

As to fibre, welcome to the club! 

lol Do I get a badge? 


Edit: Fixed markup

[Rik]

1) Oh no I wouldn't!

2) Yes, cut and paste!

[Tanzanite]

LMAO!

Ty, I shall wear it with pride 

[Rik]

You can pick up the original at http://www.coolgenerators.com/temp/6b1a6575a99edc680d13bf42e883cf241a5652a4.gif. It's a useful site for this place, also recommended is Best Smileys.

[Tanzanite]

I've got a headache now, the ex BT engineer didn't stop giving me lessons as he done the job! I've never known a man to talk so much! LOL

Anyway, the extension socket was wired up wrongly by whoever installed it (BT). I can't remember what he said now, had so many lessons this morning (he came early, was meant to be this aft) it's all melted into one gloop of info that's swirling around some where deep inside my brain that's now turned into mush LOL

He recitified the socket so didn't need to put a new one in. He shoved 240 volts up the main socket (or some wire in there, can't remember) he said that was all fine. Said the cables used in my area are pretty good ones too,  not cheap nasty stuff.
He took the bell wires out even though the BT engineer who came Sat was horrified at the thought of taking it out and said the phones wont ring! (They do!)

He said where I am to the exchange I should be getting at least 6mg maybe even 7. Even though BT say my line supports 5mg. As Rik said my SNR is a bit high and should be around 6-8db it's wavering between 12-15db, at night it goes to minus something  though.
Basically, everythings fine my end now and within 3-4 days should have much improved speed but he says if it doesn't, somethings wrong and it's likely to be something with Idnet , he even phoned a BT Broadband trainer who said the same thing.(I find that hard to believe with so many people happy with them).

My router stats are now: Downstream Rate: 4864 kbps Upstream Rate: 448 kbps Downstream Margin: 13 db Upstream Margin: 25 db Downstream Line Attenuation: 43 db Upstream Line Attenuation: 11 db

Though the downstream used to be 5800 approx.
He said it may improve in the next few days.

My throughput is 111kbps though which is why he said something else may be going on with Idnet. But I will keep an eye on it and see what it's like in a few days.
It's strange though as with AOL It was all over the place at between 9990kbps and 1.80mb then occasionally 2.50mb. Then after changing MTU it occasionally went up to 3.50mb. Then after joining Idnet it was average of 1.50mb then going down rapidly with the noise on the line, the disconnects etc, to where I am now: 111kbps.

[Rik]

Hi Eve

I've got a headache now, the ex BT engineer didn't stop giving me lessons as he done the job! I've never known a man to talk so much! LOL

You've never met me, have you...

Anyway, the extension socket was wired up wrongly by whoever installed it (BT). I can't remember what he said now

It's possible that it was a split pair - that didn't matter in voice days, but for ADSL it's critical in two respects: (a) it helps to reduce noise pickup and (b) the cable pairs are designed so that the wire length is identical.

He took the bell wires out even though the BT engineer who came Sat was horrified at the thought of taking it out and said the phones wont ring! (They do!)

Voice engineers don't like removing the bell/ring wire, but most modern phones will work without it. IAC, the microfilter generates the ring current.

my SNR is a bit high and should be around 6-8db it's wavering between 12-15db, at night it goes to minus something  though.

If that remains the case, then the issue is on the line between you and the exchange.

Basically, everythings fine my end now and within 3-4 days should have much improved speed but he says if it doesn't, somethings wrong and it's likely to be something with Idnet , he even phoned a BT Broadband trainer who said the same thing.(I find that hard to believe with so many people happy with them).

It's always possible for problems to occur with any ISP, but they won't manifest as noise fluctuation, that's a phone infrastructure issue. If you maintain sync at a higher speed for three days, your profile should rise and with it your throughput. If that doesn't happen, you may have a stuck profile, in which case let IDNet know and they can do something about it.

My router stats are now: Downstream Rate: 4864 kbps Upstream Rate: 448 kbps Downstream Margin: 13 db Upstream Margin: 25 db Downstream Line Attenuation: 43 db Upstream Line Attenuation: 11 db

Though the downstream used to be 5800 approx.
He said it may improve in the next few days.

As I say, you need to hold sync for three days, then do a BT speed test and see what your profile is. If things stay stable, you can ask IDNet to get your target noise margin reduced.

My throughput is 111kbps though which is why he said something else may be going on with Idnet. But I will keep an eye on it and see what it's like in a few days.

If you do a BT speed test, this will tell you what profile you are on - that may explain the throughput.

It's strange though as with AOL It was all over the place at between 9990kbps and 1.80mb then occasionally 2.50mb. Then after changing MTU it occasionally went up to 3.50mb. Then after joining Idnet it was average of 1.50mb then going down rapidly with the noise on the line, the disconnects etc, to where I am now: 111kbps.

Which does tend to suggest that you've been picking up a lot of noise...

[Tanzanite]

Hi Eve

You've never met me, have you...

Oh dear. Thanks but no thanks then 

It's possible that it was a split pair - that didn't matter in voice days, but for ADSL it's critical in two respects: (a) it helps to reduce noise pickup and (b) the cable pairs are designed so that the wire length is identical.

Ah yes, I remember something about split pairs.

Voice engineers don't like removing the bell/ring wire, but most modern phones will work without it. IAC, the microfilter generates the ring current.

If that remains the case, then the issue is on the line between you and the exchange.

It's always possible for problems to occur with any ISP, but they won't manifest as noise fluctuation, that's a phone infrastructure issue. If you maintain sync at a higher speed for three days, your profile should rise and with it your throughput. If that doesn't happen, you may have a stuck profile, in which case let IDNet know and they can do something about it.

Hmm, my filter wasn't fully in, so pushed in properly and sync speed is 5140 so it's going up LOL

As I say, you need to hold sync for three days, then do a BT speed test and see what your profile is. If things stay stable, you can ask IDNet to get your target noise margin reduced.

Yep, just emailed them actually about my email prob, that sorted itself out so I said what the bloke said and she said if still the same in 3 days they'd get BT to manually alter my profile.

If you do a BT speed test, this will tell you what profile you are on - that may explain the throughput.

- 135 kbps at mo . Fingers crossed in a few days i'll all be sorted.

Which does tend to suggest that you've been picking up a lot of noise...

Edit: markup fixed

[Rik]

Ah yes, I remember something about split pairs.

That would certainly affect performance and stability.

Hmm, my filter wasn't fully in, so pushed in properly and sync speed is 5140 so it's going up LOL

That wasn't helping either.

Yep, just emailed them actually about my email prob, that sorted itself out so I said what the bloke said and she said if still the same in 3 days they'd get BT to manually alter my profile.

- 135 kbps at mo . Fingers crossed in a few days i'll all be sorted.

Basically, if it doesn't move in three days, it's the notorious stuck profile and needs manual intervention - but you do need three days without a low sync event.

[Tanzanite]

It's now 3 days but it's not technically 3 days until 1pm.

This is what I'm getting:

DSL Path Mode:     Interleaved
Downstream Rate:    5408 kbps
Upstream Rate:    448 kbps
Downstream Margin:    13 db
Upstream Margin:    25 db
Downstream Line Attenuation:    43 db
Upstream Line Attenuation:    11 db



IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  5408 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2330 kbps

I will check again at lunchtime but it's looking like my profiles stuck. It's an improvement on dial up type speed though 

On this new router (Linksys WAG200G) my noise margin drops from 7pm to about 6db then carries on fluctuating and generally dropping until 9pm when it goes to minus something, it doesn't tell me what the number is as it can't display it, I just get something like 2 million and something!
Now I know it does drop at night anyway, this is normal but my old router never went as low as that. Is it the router? The connection still seems to hang on though.
If they reduce my noise margin surely I'll be getting disconnections galore every evening??

I don't think I've had any disconnections but harder to tell because there's no line up count on this router 

[Rik]

Hi Eve

The profile doesn't generally move until the fourth day, ie after you have completed three days at a higher sync speed. That said, I've seen it happen at all times of day, and sometimes within 75 minutes - so it seems the rule is there are no rules.

The incredibly high positive number is actually an incorrectly displayed negative number. Router manufacturers seem not to have allowed for negativity - but my Netgear will cling on to the line down to about -5db. Different makes/models of routers will perform differently on a line, and some will do better than others. Ideally, urban myth has it, you should match the router chipset to that of the DSLAM.

Decreasing noise margin will increase your sync speed and, if there are any wiring issues left, your instability. However, now you've had your internal wiring sorted, it may be that support would escalate your case to BT. Otherwise, reducing noise would certainly increase pain - the eternal trade-off with Max.

[Tanzanite]

My speed did improve over night that first night but hasn't moved since then though my sync speed has been improving every day, I've been disconnecting it over night and that seems to be better.

Miriam did say 3 days, I'll wait until lunchtime anyway.

[Rik]

Overnight is when you have the greatest chance of the line dropping due to noise, so if you're not using it, it's not a bad idea to disconnect.

[Tanzanite]

Thats what I thought. 

Think I spoke too soon: IP profile for your line is - 4500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  5408 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4194 kbps


Woohoo!! 

Though am I being pickey as my throughput used to be 4.80mb?

[Rik]

Your profile is right for your sync speed, your throughput is right for your profile. These are not affected by the ISP, but are the results of line condition. It may be that there is an exchange, or exchange to your house, issue affecting things. Have a word with support, see what they can see happening to your line. The risk is, as always, if they get BT out and BT decide it's an internal fault, you face a bill.

[Tanzanite]

Think I'll leave it then. Just for the sake of 0.80mb I dont think an extortionate charge by BT is worth it for that LOL

I suppose I could try the old router to see if it syncs higher in a few days but the sync speed on this one has been going up everyday so it may still get a bit higher, you never know.

Case now closed (I hope!) 

[Rik]

Probably wise, Eve. Sometimes, we can get so bogged down in extracting the last bit of speed out of our lines that we forget to get on with using the net and enjoying it. I know, I've been there.

Of course, you could now start tweaking your MTU & RWIN settings...

[Lance]

Case now closed (I hope!) 

Woo-hoo!

[Rik]

I see we have a banana-fest.

[Tanzanite]

lmao @ Lance!

Top Banana!


My MTU using the TCP Optimizer suggests 1492 and have done the RWIN. The MTU seems to change every now and again so will keep an eye on it. Actually I found this free software that automatically adjusts the MTU itself as needed. I've lost the website now though.

[Rik]

Windows is supposed to adjust MTU automatically, Eve, though it doesn't seem to work quite as planned. I was finding that, although I had an MTU of 1500 set, sites were reporting back 1460. That has changed in the past few days and I now get the correct report. I'm really not sure where the bottleneck occurred.