Noise problems on internal wiring

[Tanzanite]

I expect more than notes, Eve. I want full diagrams, photographs and maybe a movie!

You'd get a surprise then if I did actually take pics and a movie! 

As to fibre, welcome to the club! 

lol Do I get a badge? 


Edit: Fixed markup

[Rik]

1) Oh no I wouldn't!

2) Yes, cut and paste!

[Tanzanite]

LMAO!

Ty, I shall wear it with pride 

[Rik]

You can pick up the original at http://www.coolgenerators.com/temp/6b1a6575a99edc680d13bf42e883cf241a5652a4.gif. It's a useful site for this place, also recommended is Best Smileys.

[Tanzanite]

I've got a headache now, the ex BT engineer didn't stop giving me lessons as he done the job! I've never known a man to talk so much! LOL

Anyway, the extension socket was wired up wrongly by whoever installed it (BT). I can't remember what he said now, had so many lessons this morning (he came early, was meant to be this aft) it's all melted into one gloop of info that's swirling around some where deep inside my brain that's now turned into mush LOL

He recitified the socket so didn't need to put a new one in. He shoved 240 volts up the main socket (or some wire in there, can't remember) he said that was all fine. Said the cables used in my area are pretty good ones too,  not cheap nasty stuff.
He took the bell wires out even though the BT engineer who came Sat was horrified at the thought of taking it out and said the phones wont ring! (They do!)

He said where I am to the exchange I should be getting at least 6mg maybe even 7. Even though BT say my line supports 5mg. As Rik said my SNR is a bit high and should be around 6-8db it's wavering between 12-15db, at night it goes to minus something  though.
Basically, everythings fine my end now and within 3-4 days should have much improved speed but he says if it doesn't, somethings wrong and it's likely to be something with Idnet , he even phoned a BT Broadband trainer who said the same thing.(I find that hard to believe with so many people happy with them).

My router stats are now: Downstream Rate: 4864 kbps Upstream Rate: 448 kbps Downstream Margin: 13 db Upstream Margin: 25 db Downstream Line Attenuation: 43 db Upstream Line Attenuation: 11 db

Though the downstream used to be 5800 approx.
He said it may improve in the next few days.

My throughput is 111kbps though which is why he said something else may be going on with Idnet. But I will keep an eye on it and see what it's like in a few days.
It's strange though as with AOL It was all over the place at between 9990kbps and 1.80mb then occasionally 2.50mb. Then after changing MTU it occasionally went up to 3.50mb. Then after joining Idnet it was average of 1.50mb then going down rapidly with the noise on the line, the disconnects etc, to where I am now: 111kbps.

[Rik]

Hi Eve

I've got a headache now, the ex BT engineer didn't stop giving me lessons as he done the job! I've never known a man to talk so much! LOL

You've never met me, have you...

Anyway, the extension socket was wired up wrongly by whoever installed it (BT). I can't remember what he said now

It's possible that it was a split pair - that didn't matter in voice days, but for ADSL it's critical in two respects: (a) it helps to reduce noise pickup and (b) the cable pairs are designed so that the wire length is identical.

He took the bell wires out even though the BT engineer who came Sat was horrified at the thought of taking it out and said the phones wont ring! (They do!)

Voice engineers don't like removing the bell/ring wire, but most modern phones will work without it. IAC, the microfilter generates the ring current.

my SNR is a bit high and should be around 6-8db it's wavering between 12-15db, at night it goes to minus something  though.

If that remains the case, then the issue is on the line between you and the exchange.

Basically, everythings fine my end now and within 3-4 days should have much improved speed but he says if it doesn't, somethings wrong and it's likely to be something with Idnet , he even phoned a BT Broadband trainer who said the same thing.(I find that hard to believe with so many people happy with them).

It's always possible for problems to occur with any ISP, but they won't manifest as noise fluctuation, that's a phone infrastructure issue. If you maintain sync at a higher speed for three days, your profile should rise and with it your throughput. If that doesn't happen, you may have a stuck profile, in which case let IDNet know and they can do something about it.

My router stats are now: Downstream Rate: 4864 kbps Upstream Rate: 448 kbps Downstream Margin: 13 db Upstream Margin: 25 db Downstream Line Attenuation: 43 db Upstream Line Attenuation: 11 db

Though the downstream used to be 5800 approx.
He said it may improve in the next few days.

As I say, you need to hold sync for three days, then do a BT speed test and see what your profile is. If things stay stable, you can ask IDNet to get your target noise margin reduced.

My throughput is 111kbps though which is why he said something else may be going on with Idnet. But I will keep an eye on it and see what it's like in a few days.

If you do a BT speed test, this will tell you what profile you are on - that may explain the throughput.

It's strange though as with AOL It was all over the place at between 9990kbps and 1.80mb then occasionally 2.50mb. Then after changing MTU it occasionally went up to 3.50mb. Then after joining Idnet it was average of 1.50mb then going down rapidly with the noise on the line, the disconnects etc, to where I am now: 111kbps.

Which does tend to suggest that you've been picking up a lot of noise...

[Tanzanite]

Hi Eve

You've never met me, have you...

Oh dear. Thanks but no thanks then 

It's possible that it was a split pair - that didn't matter in voice days, but for ADSL it's critical in two respects: (a) it helps to reduce noise pickup and (b) the cable pairs are designed so that the wire length is identical.

Ah yes, I remember something about split pairs.

Voice engineers don't like removing the bell/ring wire, but most modern phones will work without it. IAC, the microfilter generates the ring current.

If that remains the case, then the issue is on the line between you and the exchange.

It's always possible for problems to occur with any ISP, but they won't manifest as noise fluctuation, that's a phone infrastructure issue. If you maintain sync at a higher speed for three days, your profile should rise and with it your throughput. If that doesn't happen, you may have a stuck profile, in which case let IDNet know and they can do something about it.

Hmm, my filter wasn't fully in, so pushed in properly and sync speed is 5140 so it's going up LOL

As I say, you need to hold sync for three days, then do a BT speed test and see what your profile is. If things stay stable, you can ask IDNet to get your target noise margin reduced.

Yep, just emailed them actually about my email prob, that sorted itself out so I said what the bloke said and she said if still the same in 3 days they'd get BT to manually alter my profile.

If you do a BT speed test, this will tell you what profile you are on - that may explain the throughput.

- 135 kbps at mo . Fingers crossed in a few days i'll all be sorted.

Which does tend to suggest that you've been picking up a lot of noise...

Edit: markup fixed

[Rik]

Ah yes, I remember something about split pairs.

That would certainly affect performance and stability.

Hmm, my filter wasn't fully in, so pushed in properly and sync speed is 5140 so it's going up LOL

That wasn't helping either.

Yep, just emailed them actually about my email prob, that sorted itself out so I said what the bloke said and she said if still the same in 3 days they'd get BT to manually alter my profile.

- 135 kbps at mo . Fingers crossed in a few days i'll all be sorted.

Basically, if it doesn't move in three days, it's the notorious stuck profile and needs manual intervention - but you do need three days without a low sync event.

[Tanzanite]

It's now 3 days but it's not technically 3 days until 1pm.

This is what I'm getting:

DSL Path Mode:     Interleaved
Downstream Rate:    5408 kbps
Upstream Rate:    448 kbps
Downstream Margin:    13 db
Upstream Margin:    25 db
Downstream Line Attenuation:    43 db
Upstream Line Attenuation:    11 db



IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  5408 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2330 kbps

I will check again at lunchtime but it's looking like my profiles stuck. It's an improvement on dial up type speed though 

On this new router (Linksys WAG200G) my noise margin drops from 7pm to about 6db then carries on fluctuating and generally dropping until 9pm when it goes to minus something, it doesn't tell me what the number is as it can't display it, I just get something like 2 million and something!
Now I know it does drop at night anyway, this is normal but my old router never went as low as that. Is it the router? The connection still seems to hang on though.
If they reduce my noise margin surely I'll be getting disconnections galore every evening??

I don't think I've had any disconnections but harder to tell because there's no line up count on this router 

[Rik]

Hi Eve

The profile doesn't generally move until the fourth day, ie after you have completed three days at a higher sync speed. That said, I've seen it happen at all times of day, and sometimes within 75 minutes - so it seems the rule is there are no rules.

The incredibly high positive number is actually an incorrectly displayed negative number. Router manufacturers seem not to have allowed for negativity - but my Netgear will cling on to the line down to about -5db. Different makes/models of routers will perform differently on a line, and some will do better than others. Ideally, urban myth has it, you should match the router chipset to that of the DSLAM.

Decreasing noise margin will increase your sync speed and, if there are any wiring issues left, your instability. However, now you've had your internal wiring sorted, it may be that support would escalate your case to BT. Otherwise, reducing noise would certainly increase pain - the eternal trade-off with Max.

[Tanzanite]

My speed did improve over night that first night but hasn't moved since then though my sync speed has been improving every day, I've been disconnecting it over night and that seems to be better.

Miriam did say 3 days, I'll wait until lunchtime anyway.

[Rik]

Overnight is when you have the greatest chance of the line dropping due to noise, so if you're not using it, it's not a bad idea to disconnect.

[Tanzanite]

Thats what I thought. 

Think I spoke too soon: IP profile for your line is - 4500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  5408 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4194 kbps


Woohoo!! 

Though am I being pickey as my throughput used to be 4.80mb?

[Rik]

Your profile is right for your sync speed, your throughput is right for your profile. These are not affected by the ISP, but are the results of line condition. It may be that there is an exchange, or exchange to your house, issue affecting things. Have a word with support, see what they can see happening to your line. The risk is, as always, if they get BT out and BT decide it's an internal fault, you face a bill.

[Tanzanite]

Think I'll leave it then. Just for the sake of 0.80mb I dont think an extortionate charge by BT is worth it for that LOL

I suppose I could try the old router to see if it syncs higher in a few days but the sync speed on this one has been going up everyday so it may still get a bit higher, you never know.

Case now closed (I hope!) 

[Rik]

Probably wise, Eve. Sometimes, we can get so bogged down in extracting the last bit of speed out of our lines that we forget to get on with using the net and enjoying it. I know, I've been there.

Of course, you could now start tweaking your MTU & RWIN settings...

[Lance]

Case now closed (I hope!) 

Woo-hoo!

[Rik]

I see we have a banana-fest.

[Tanzanite]

lmao @ Lance!

Top Banana!


My MTU using the TCP Optimizer suggests 1492 and have done the RWIN. The MTU seems to change every now and again so will keep an eye on it. Actually I found this free software that automatically adjusts the MTU itself as needed. I've lost the website now though.

[Rik]

Windows is supposed to adjust MTU automatically, Eve, though it doesn't seem to work quite as planned. I was finding that, although I had an MTU of 1500 set, sites were reporting back 1460. That has changed in the past few days and I now get the correct report. I'm really not sure where the bottleneck occurred.