Home plug oddity

[Rik]

I don't use them, so I'm at a bit of a loss, but I've been asked this question:

I got a home plug kit to allow my shiny new internet capable tv to get internet access in our equally shiny new conservatory (the other option was the dedicated Sony usb dongle which is a complete rip off). I decided to test the connection on my laptop first so installed the small monitoring program and plugged everything in. All i can get is "local" internet access. I dont seem to be able to connect to the primary DNS server, although it did manage to connect to the linksys routers site to check for anything obvious  but everything looked normal. I tried turning off the firewall to no avail.

The laptop works fine with the router when connected with a conventional cable. The home plugs are connected directly into wall sockets on the same ring main. It looks like a DNS issue but i can't for the life of me think why it won't work. I thought these things literally needed no setup at all.

I haven't yet found out the brand, but all thoughts gratefully received.

[Steve]

Normally just plug and go even without pairing, if he/she been playing with passwords/pairing suggest a reset to default and try again. I do get the occasional hassle with loss of internet connection but that usually is resolved by switching the home plug attached to the router on and off. It could of course be the laptop but it shouldn't be any different than a normal ethernet cable connection,could try setting DNS locally on the NIC. It might work ok on the TV

[Rik]

Thanks, Steve.

[Gary]

Not sure if anything here will help http://www.homeplugs.co.uk/acatalog/faqs.html

[Steve]

If it's the 1GB variety send em back.

[Gary]

If it's the 1GB variety send em back.

Do they have issues Steve?

[Rik]

If it's the 1GB variety send em back.

I'll find out.

[Gary]

I have heard Netgear ones can be a pain compared with other makes, something about interoperability as well 

[Rik]

That sounds like a versatile surgeon, Gary.

[Gary]

That sounds like a versatile surgeon, Gary.

By the looks of some celebrity face lifts that's probably the case, but more the jack of all trades master of none variety 

[Rik]

 

[Bill]

Like Steve, I've found they're just plug 'n go... but I've never tried using the pairing/password software, didn't see the point.

I've had a pair in use for about 5 years, no problems at all. They're the early ones, can't remember the speed but they've always been fast enough for what I need. Including (so far) connecting to the Apple TV.


edit- just had a look, they're the 85Mbps ones, not the slower ones.

[Technical Ben]

Like Steve, I've found they're just plug 'n go... but I've never tried using the pairing/password software, didn't see the point.

I've had a pair in use for about 5 years, no problems at all. They're the early ones, can't remember the speed but they've always been fast enough for what I need. Including (so far) connecting to the Apple TV.

Hmmm. I wonder if without the password you could get someone's connection through the electric wires! 
Well, at least if it's shared accommodation like a student board.

[Bill]

Hmmm. I wonder if without the password you could get someone's connection through the electric wires! 
Well, at least if it's shared accommodation like a student board.

Ah, for something like shared accomodation I might think differently

But for ordinary houses, the chance of a neighbour picking it up is pretty negligible... because of the 3-phase distribution the nearest would be 3 doors away and via two electricity meters, and that's a bit much for a HomePlug!

[esh]

The important thing to determine is it IS a DNS issue or not. Simple pick your favourite website on an ethernet-connected PC and find out it's IP address (via traceroute or so on), then try and connect to this IP via a homeplug system. That will determine if you're getting outside access or not. If you aren't it could be some glitch with DHCP. Output of "ipconfig/all" is useful!

[davej99]

To test I plug both homeplugs into the same dual socket, connect one to pc, one to router, in place of proven good direct cable. There should be no difference cable versus home plug. It is just ethernet pass-through.

If home plugs do not connect I use the utility provided by the vendor (in my case Zyxel 401, 200Mbps) to detect the homeplugs. One should show local, ie connected the PC, and the other remote, ie connected to router. In this case both are OK.

If only the local is seen switch the homeplugs. If no local plug is seen, then it is faulty. If only local is seen again then there is a password or firmware mismatch. In the case of Zyxel, I believe the various firmwares are not compatible. Re-flashing firmwares, one at a time as the local connection resets any forgotten passwords and ensures compatibility. Then test again.

I have has 1/4 fail after 2 years. I have found occasionally pair of house sockets will not work and another has to be chosen. 

[Odos]

A simple possibility, are either of the homeplugs plugged into an extension lead or one of those four socket trailing sockets?

I've used these things for years and the only time I had any problem was when using a trailing socket. Doing a lot of web searching at the time I discovered they are not designed to work with any form of extension, something to do with RF interference in the extension cable.

[Bill]

I discovered they are not designed to work with any form of extension

Not really true I'm afraid... both mine are on trailing sockets (one 4-way, one 6-way) and working fine. They probably won't achieve their full speed, however.

As a guide:

They work best if plugged directly into the wall socket.

They'll probably work well enough (but slower) in a decent quality trailing socket that does not have built-in filters or spike suppressors.

Unlikely to work at all with a noise filter or suppressor.



From Rik's OP it sounds as though they could connect to the Linksys site (presumably by using the IP address instead of the url), in which case they're working and the problem is somewhere else.

[Rik]

That was how I read it, Bill. They are both directly into wall sockets on the same ring main.

[Steve]

I've not had any real issues on extension leads either although I avoid the one with a surge protector. Incidentally I lost 3 this summer i.e they no longer worked over a very short period of time, a voltage surge I presume.

[Rik]

We've had a lot of nasty spikes this year, Steve. I wonder if the grid has been having problems?

[Steve]

Also I've had issues like the daapd server ,is not broadcast or the port not available using one type of home plug.

[Rik]

Any solutions?

[Bill]

That was how I read it, Bill. They are both directly into wall sockets on the same ring main.

One thing I've just thought of- Sally had a Seimens laptop running XP and when her Huawei router died I put in a Speedtouch (from eBay, with fairly old firmware).

Her laptop WOULD NOT pick up the DNS servers from TalkTalk, though my MacBook was fine... some weird incompatibility somewhere. I had to set it to use OpenDNS. Might be worth checking.

[Rik]

Thanks Bill.

[Steve]

We've had a lot of nasty spikes this year, Steve. I wonder if the grid has been having problems?

It gets expensive for items not associated with a surge protector, not sure how easy it is prove though.

[Rik]

It isn't. If you suspect voltage fluctuation, you used to have to get them to install a monitor to check. I don't know whether they still do that.

[Rik]

Latest report:

i got a second homeplug kit and i have the same problem. I have also noticed that straight after the home plug has been connected the router stops connecting with the internet at all
(which may explain why i can't access the internet but not why it's happening !)
i have to reboot the pc and router and disconnect the HP's and then the router works again.

The IP address on the pc is showing as 192.168.1.101 which apparently is the addy for the linksys router, is that how it should be ?

I'm stumped so if anyone's got an idea, my ears are wide open.

[Glenn]

Any idea of the make?

[Rik]

Not yet, it's drawing teeth time.

[Rik]

Right, the plugs are Max Value:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Max-Value-Mbps-Home-Double/dp/B000TV7FJ4

and an ipconfig reveals this:

Windows IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : xxxx
        Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : cable.virginmedia.net

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : cable.virginmedia.net
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-19-66-7A-5D-F9
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.100
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 194.168.4.100
                                            194.168.8.100
        Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 03 November 2010 18:00:38
        Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 04 November 2010 18:00:38

[Glenn]

They look like the plugs I have, minus the pass through port http://www.ebuyer.com/product/179960

[Rik]

Can you think of anything in the setup which could cause the 'net connection to drop, Glenn?

[Glenn]

I installed the Power Packet utility that came with them, and entered the passwords that are printed on each unit. I was then able to access my network and the internet.

[Rik]

Thanks.

[Glenn]

Basically, followed the very small instruction manual.

[Rik]

I think this may be a case of RTFM...

[Steve]

These plugs seem to get a mixed review on Amazon they work or they don't, my other thought is that the mains is noisy and this is killing the connection might be worth looking at what else is connected in the rooms where the plugs are situated.

[Rik]

Thanks, Steve.

[esh]

The IP address on the pc is showing as 192.168.1.101 which apparently is the addy for the linksys router, is that how it should be ?

No no no no! Argh! You'll get an IP conflict on your default gateway. This is an issue I had a while ago when I moved my default gateway but the old one failed to be removed. Systems will then try and route through the most recent system that broadcast itself as that address. In this situation when the laptop connects with the same IP as the router all the PCs will be stuck and confused as all external packets will then try and route through the laptop and the laptop will be quite clueless too (hence it will appear the internet is down). You will be able to intermittently get to the router but with two systems on the same IP it's just going to be quite unpredictable (which is why it took me ages to figure it out). Try setting it to a fixed IP address if you want in the network configuration. Just use IP 192.168.1.200 (or other unused number up to 192.168.1.254) with netmask 255.255.255.0 and gateway to the router IP (x.101)... DNS either set to the router IP or type in the IDNet ones manually.

[Bill]

No no no no! Argh! You'll get an IP conflict on your default gateway.

I wondered about that... but I wasn't clear whether that was the IP OF the PC or the IP address of the Home plug as shown ON the PC... as my Home plugs don't show an IP address I decided that I was out of my depth and anything I tried to add would be more likely to increase the confusion

[Rik]

Thanks, esh, I'll pass that on. 

[esh]

Sorry I went crazy it's just I tore all my hair out not 2 months ago fixing that problem  Fits the bill as well.. the LAN/Wireless are on different adapters which is why one works and the other doesn't.

[Rik]

You're just boasting because you still have hair, aren't you.