routers

[alcav]

Hi all

I am a bit puzzled.I am faced with the possibility of buying a router to try to combat random disconnects.
I t seems that most of you folks on these forums use a router in preference to a modem,yet when I look on ebay there are a lot of used ones for sale,am I missing something here,why are there so many for sale when they are deemed the bees knees in adsl connection.I am a silver surfer and hope for an easy life compwise ;)so is it really in my interest to aquire  a router be it used or new,Any advice would be very much appreciated  TIA........Alan

[AvengerUK]

It is cirtianally in your interest to have a router, rather than a modem. Simply for security and "ease of use" reasons. Ebay has alot on, as, people tend to make money by selling them for "more expensive prices".

Provided you get some advice, and choose a good used or new router, then it should hopefully help your disconnects

(note: I recommend a ZyXel, especially since mine has stopped playing up!)

[Rik]

Hi Alcav

As Avenger says, a router is definitely worth obtaining for the extra security it offers, even if you only use one computer with it.

Whether it will cure your random disconnects depends on what is causing them. Can you give us some more details of what is happening and when please. Some line stats would be helpful and if you visit Kitz you will find instructions on how to obtain these.

[alcav]

Hi Alcav

As Avenger says, a router is definitely worth obtaining for the extra security it offers, even if you only use one computer with it.

Whether it will cure your random disconnects depends on what is causing them. Can you give us some more details of what is happening and when please. Some line stats would be helpful and if you visit Kitz you will find instructions on how to obtain these.

I have spoken to Miriam at Idnet cs about this and she suggested I try either another modem or a router,problem is getting hold of one to try b4 I buy so to speak.

At the moment I am getting very random disconnects mostly during the evening,the modem does not re-connect despite it being configured to do so,the modem lights at this time stay on.As i am into online flight simulation,a disconnect can be disastrous,as I stand to lose a lot of setting up hard work

[Rik]

Hi Alcav

Disconnects during the evening are the most common type for a number of reasons.

1)  ADSL operates in the MW spectrum and radio waves propagate better at night, so they increase noise pickup.

2)  There are more users online, creating the possibility of cross-talk.

3)  There's more electrical equipment in use in the home, increasing the possibility of interference.

All these will reduce your noise margin, potentially to the point where the modem can no longer 'see' the signal above the noise. At that point, your connection dies.

It really would help if you could post us some figures for you line, using the link in my last post. You may also want to take a look at this, to get an idea of what self-help measures you can adopt.

As to try before you buy, the only suggestion I can make is that you tell the retailer you need the router to improve your connection and stop disconnections, and that you are buying on the understanding that it will do that. If they agree to that condition, then you would have a right of return under the Sale and Supply of Goods Act.

[DorsetBoy]

Do you have a free ads paper in your area?

There are often adsl routers or sale in the PC sections........might be worth a look.

[alcav]

Many thanks everyone for your help,it looks like I have to delve into the high tec end of ADSL by trying to get line stats etc.
I am now 70 yrs of age and naively thought that by getting a better ISP all thes probs of disconnects would magically dissolve.

My main hobby with my comp is flight simming,which can be quite complex in it's own right,so I could really do without having to learn the complexities of broadband in order to enjoy my hobby.

I will endeaver though to take advantage of your kind help and study the data on the links you have posted for my benefit.

When I have made some sense of it all I will post agin to seek your further help.

My sincere thanks to you all...........Alan

[Lance]

naively thought that by getting a better ISP all thes probs of disconnects would magically dissolve.

Unfortunately, the problems you appear to have are due to your line, which is the same regardless of ISP.

[Rik]

Many thanks everyone for your help,it looks like I have to delve into the high tec end of ADSL by trying to get line stats etc.
I am now 70 yrs of age and naively thought that by getting a better ISP all thes probs of disconnects would magically dissolve.

Hi Alan

As Lance says, at the moment it does look like your problems are line related, and that won't change whatever ISP you use. What does change is how much help you will get from the ISP, I think you'll like IDNet in that respect.

If you can operate a flight simulator, you'll have no problems gettings to grips with the few technical issues you need to understand with ADSL. We'll be here, ready to help, as you do it.

[alcav]

Hi again guys...many thanks for your continued offers of help.

This morning I followed the link  "skitz" as your suggestion and tried to download Dr.Speedtouch via a link as it suggested,sadly to no avail.I could not see any lik to any sort of line stat program . perhaps you could enlighten me.

I do however have this on my hdd (see attachment) which is a dianostic tool I presume,but I cant get it to do anything re-line stats etc.It sits in my tray,but there appears to be no logfile facility etc,,HEEEELP!!

I have for starters,decided to renew my line to my modem from my phone,I did in fact replace the filters a little while ago.I will no doubt eventually stump up for a router if they are all they are cracked up to be .

Anyway guys,perhaps you can help me get these line stats,would be appreciated.cheers.....Alan


[attachment deleted by admin]

[DorsetBoy]

Run it again and see what it says on the TABS .........  ADSL    ATM    and    Connection.

[Rik]

Hi Alan

You should have Dr Speedtouch on your machine or the CD which came with the modem. That's what will give you the line stats. Failing that, the link on Kitz is working, albeit slowly.

Follow the directions Kitz gives:

"Install the program and run "Diagnostics".

Right Click the icon in your system tray >>
Advanced >>
"Write log to disk"

Now open the log file in IE (its in .xml format so you may have to use IE to open it).
You should now be able to see your line stats amongst a lot of other information.

The stats you are looking for are:-

    ReceiveAttenuation_dB=
    ReceiveMargin_dB=
    SendAttenuation_dB=
    SendMargin_dB=

It is recommended that you close the program after you have finished as it can be quite resource hungry."

Note two things. Not only is the Dotcor resource hungry, it will also send diagnostic bursts of data as long as it's active, so clsing it when not in use is highly recommended. The log file which will be produced is in XML format and is long, you'll need to scroll down till you find the stats listed above.

[alcav]

Run it again and see what it says on the TABS .........  ADSL    ATM    and    Connection.

Hi.....here are pictures of above request.....regards     Alan

[attachment deleted by admin]

[alcav]

hi again.....the other one

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Rik]

Hi Alan

The figures we really need have to come from Dr Speedtouch, as per my earlier post. Depending how long the modem had been connected, your figures so far don't look too bad (1 loss).

[alcav]

Hi all,well I got Dr. speedtouch working and ran it as you advised.it however did not finish the diagnostics cos it says there is a problem detected with the internet stating it was unable to reach a website via HTTP.

I followed all the on screen instructions to remedy the prob.and re- tested.The results were the same.

I have enclosed the stats despite the diagnostics not being completed,don't know whether I did right or not

ReceiveAttenuation_dB=50
    ReceiveMargin_dB=9
    SendAttenuation_dB=27
    SendMargin_dB=22

Regards.....Alan

[Rik]

Hi Alan

DrS always seems to report a problem with the connection, don't worry about that.

The fact that your receive margin is at 9db means that the line management software has detected instability in the line and increased the margin in an attempt to overcome it. That will limit your sync speed, and that will limit your throughout. Currently, you sync just below the speed required for a 3500kbps profile, so your throughput is on a 3000 profile, in practice, you should see speeds of around 2800kbps. It's worth doing a test with the BT tester, as this will include your profile information.

Given that your line has shown instability, it would help you to check your internal wiring and, if at all possible, connect at the test socket if you have one. That test will tell you immediately if the problem is with your internal wiring. Check the sticky here. The one below it gives speed test sites.

[alcav]

Hi Rik....


many thanks,i will do some speed tests and try to understand what they mean (would rather fly a boeing 737 tho )

Are there any stats to aim for ? what would a reasonable set of stats look like?.

Regards   Alan

[Rik]

Hi Alan

There's no right or wrong stats at this point, only stats.

The BT speedtest will give your profile. If, as I suspect, that is at 3000kbps, then you should be looking for a throughput of around 2800kbps d/s and 380 u/s (the upstream shouldn't vary regardless of profile).

If it's wildly different to that, but your profile is 3000, then we need to think about whether your MTU & RWIN settings are optimised.

[alcav]

Thanks for that Rik....

last night at 23:05 I did a test and the results are,profile          2500k
                                                                    upstream      448k
                                                                    downstream  3424k
                                                                    throughput    2167k


Regards Alan

Edit: Markup sorted

[Rik]

Hi Alan

Your profile is lower than it should be. This could be one of two things, (a) you've had a low sync event from which you've not yet recovered (requires 3 days at the higher speed) or (b) you have a stuck profile.

At this point, I would suggest checking out your internal wiring, making sure that there are no problems with that. Once you are satisfied, either leave the machine running for three days, so that you can monitor the connection, or get a router and see what that records. If you are still disconnecting, or if you are not but your profile does not increase, then contact support.

[alcav]

Thanks Rik..

I have been looking at Netgear routers on Ebay,in particular the DG834G.there appears to be two speeds available with quite a difference in price and availability,would the the lower speed higher avalability suit my purpose?.I may have more chance of getting one of those .   Regards   Alan

[Rik]

Hi Alan

Routers will run at the highest speed your line can support, they don't have a speed as such. Possibly the seller is quoting the network port speed as 10/100Mbps? That's standard for most routers (though I expect to see newer models supporting Gigabit speeds before too long) and means that they will communicate with your machine at 100Mbps, 10Mbps is rarely used nowadays, it's occasionally found on peripherals like printers.

I use the DG834G v3, and have a DG834 v2 in the cupboard. The G is the wireless version and will be slightly more expensive. If you don't plan to use wireless, the 'straight' 834 will be fine. I've heard bad things about the GT model, so you may wish to avoid that. My line stats are 56db d/s attenuation, with a target noise margin of 9db (raised at my request to stabilise the line). I usually connect at around 3000kbps for a profile of 2500, with a following wind, I can sometimes get to a 3000 profile.

Note that, with Max, different routers seem to suit different lines, so all anyone can tell you is how a particular brand or model has worked for them. However, IDNet do supply the Netgear.

[alcav]

Hi Rik,you wrote...
If you don't plan to use wireless, the 'straight' 834 will be fine.

I don't contemplate using wireless in it's true sense as I am unlikely to have a remote comp.but would an 834 then just plug into my ethernet socket,or would I still have to have adsl wiring from my phone socket to my work station?

<IDNet do supply the Netgear.>

how do I find out about these?

Sorry to appear to be so thick,but all this is so new to me,and my old grey mattere is a bit slow on the uptake these days    Regards       Alan

[DorsetBoy]

Go to this page .............

http://www.idnet.net/broadband/hardware.jsp

[alcav]

Thanks Dorset boy....regards    Alan

[DorsetBoy]

 

No problem.

The advantage of getting your router from Idnet is that it will be sent out to you preconfigured for your connection and can also be remotely managed by Idnet if you wish.

All you do is plug in the power supply,ethernet cable from PC to router and lead from router to Adsl filter then turn on.

You may need to add the connection in windows but it should pick that up for you.

[Lance]

Hi Rik,you wrote...
If you don't plan to use wireless, the 'straight' 834 will be fine.

I don't contemplate using wireless in it's true sense as I am unlikely to have a remote comp.but would an 834 then just plug into my ethernet socket,or would I still have to have adsl wiring from my phone socket to my work station?

Hi Alan,

Just to make sure you are clear... The phone line wire will go from the phone socket in the wall to your shiney new router. You will then have the CAT5 cable running between your router and your PC. Therefore you will not have a direct link from the phone socket to your PC.

Lance

[alcav]

Thank you all very much,here are my test results for this evening,regards....Alan



IP profile for your line is - 3000 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  4192 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2781 kbps

21:10 bst

[Rik]

Hi Alan

Your profile is now in line with your sync speed, so that suggests you've had three days 'clean' at the higher speed and the line has stabilised.

Adding to the excellent advice Dorset and Lance have already given you, I would just say that it's always best to use a short lead from phone socket to router and a longer, ethernet, lead from router to computer if you need to. Ethernet leads can be up to 100m on any one segment if you really want to go 'walkies'.

The other thing I would mention is that routers (and modems) are susceptible to lightning damage, so if there are thunderstorms around it's safest to disconnect the router from both the phone and mains sockets. If you want to see whether there are any storms around, try this site. (Requires Java.)

[D-Dan]

If you're still shopping for a router you could do worse than take a look at www.dsldepot.co.uk. They sell B grade and refurb, but are very cheap, and highly regarded over at DSLZone.co.uk.

I have one myself from them (Speedtouch 585v6) which cost a total of £23.98 including postage, was received in less than 2 days and works like a charm. Oh - and it looks like new, too.

[alcav]

Hi ddan

thanks for that,but last night I got really lucky and won the bidding for a netgear834g for a total of 27 quid.I don't usually have any luck on Ebay but it seems I was being smiled upon this time
Just waiting for it to arrive now,then hopefully I will be sorted.   Regards......Alan

[Lance]

I don't usually have any luck on Ebay but it seems I was being smiled upon this time

The ability of IDNet is amazing!!! lol

[alcav]

yep sure is        Alan

The ability of IDNet is amazing!!! lol

[Rik]

The ability of IDNet is amazing!!! lol

[Rik]

Just waiting for it to arrive now,then hopefully I will be sorted.

If you need any help with setup, Alan, just yell. Whatever you do, resist the temptation to use any supplied CD, just plug it all in then go to http://192.168.0.1 in your browser.

[alcav]

If you need any help with setup, Alan, just yell.

Thanks Rik......will do......regards Alan