my migration came with a surprise

[kinmel]

I have migrated from Idnet to AAISP  and I wish to emphasise that neither ISP had any influence on what happened during the changeover, it involved only BT.   AAISP have not taken any actions at all regarding my connection, because they cannot make changes during BT's 10 day training period.

After line problems in October, my broadband connection changed from a regular 4000+ at 6dB to 2600 at 15dB and would only ever connect at exactly 15dB.  I was assured that my connection had no Target Margin. ( http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=23231.0 )

After an engineer visit, BT claimed that the connection on the current line was working correctly and was stable and raised a £116 charge for IDNet on the basis there was no line fault.

My broadband connection  would therefore remain at 2600/15 forever, because according to BT, my line was simply not capable of connecting at any other rate.

I decided to try an new ISP and on 24/11/10 I migrated to AAISP and something unexpected happened.

At 7.00am I had a 2600/15 broadband connection, but could not authenticate with either ISP's login details. At 3pm the router light turned green and I had a PPP session to AAISP.

However, at the exact moment of changeover, my connection rate changed from 2600 at 15dB to 3512 at 8dB. On 27/11/10 it  jumped to 4073 at 6dB and remains there 4 days later.  My 2 meg profile with IDNET is now a 3.5meg one.

I am now maintaining this rate on ADSL2+, yet I had previously had to revert back to ADSLMax because of line instability.

I have no way of knowing if it was BT equipment, or line management that was changed at that moment, but it cannot be a coincidence that the unalterable 15dB SNR suddenly dropped.

It is therefore apparent that BT's claims that the line was performing as well as possible when connected to Idnet was incorrect and we now know that the 15dB problem was both identifiable and rectifiable.  It would be interesting to learn how they defend their £116 charge to IDNet. (  Idnet withdrew their invoice to me for this £116 on  17/11/2010).

Others faced with a large engineering bill and a poor performing line now have a no-cost, no-risk chance to test their line - simply migrate and see if you get lucky too. If not, you have lost nothing.

Also where do you stand if you paid engineering charges and a move shows that the line was in fact  faulty ?

How do I  bring OFCOM into the loop ?   I cannot complain about BT, since I have no contract with them and have no wish to complain about IDNet, who are just the piggy in the middle.

[Rik]

You raise an interesting point, Alan. The creation of Openreach was, according to Ofcom, to break BT's monopoly on the supply of lines and services. In practice, it has made things worse, even if you move to an LLU operator, they are obliged to pay Openreach to install and maintain their equipment at the exchange and, of course, none of us is free of the 'last mile'.

Knowing Ofcom, they will take no interest in your problem, therefore.

What is clear, given that AAISP have done nothing, is that BT have. Finding out what and why is the hard part.

[DorsetBoy]

I think you should go after a full refund of any charges. This is typical of BT, the "engineers" they send out are all to often totally incapable of performing a simple test and BT have a policy of total denial of any faults.

I had much the same here, despite IDNet being able to see a fault, BT confirming to IDNet that they could see the fault and my connection being unusable, "engineer" walks in and rubbishes the wiring .... he fitted himself a few months prior.  Announces that it would be impossible to have more than 2 meg on the line, shown the router stats and images of BT speed tests that proved a full 448/8128 connection we just got "huh!"

While here he was using his mobile to talk with his base who could clearly be heard discussing with him the fact that they could see the fault and after his tests it was definitely a line card fault ....... yet he turns round to me and says there is no fault everything is working. While here he opened the master socket, cut and rejoined all the leads several times which resulted in the dslam dropping me to 135kbps, looking at the result of the BT test he pronounced that this was conclusive evidence that the ISP were to blame, it's a throughout error".

Best of all 11 months down the line I had another similar problem, a different engineer turned up, went into the master socket and asked " who the *&^*^%$%$ !! hell did this?"


Keep evidence of BT tests and router stats to show these muppets what the line does support, they will always deny any problem.

[Simon_idnet]

Glad to hear that your line is currently holding the noise margin at 6dB for you. When you migrate ISP your DLM settings are reset. As you are aware, we reset the DLM on your line several times and each time we did the noise margin reverted to 15dB. It may be that the interference which caused the problem for you and your neighbours has now abated and that your line will once again maintain the 6dB margin. Noise margins will rise and fall depending upon environmental conditions.

BT will not regard a drop in speed such as yours as a fault. They view it as adapting to changing line characteristics.  The charge was raised by BT because no fault could be identified (BT maintain that your line was working within specification). We were obliged to refund that charge to you because, as you rightly pointed out, our warning to you stated that there would be no charge if no fault could be found with your equipment - that was poorly worded on our part and so we must bear the cost on your behalf.

[kinmel]

As you are aware, we reset the DLM on your line several times and each time we did the noise margin reverted to 15dB. It may be that the interference which caused the problem for you and your neighbours has now abated and that your line will once again maintain the 6dB margin. Noise margins will rise and fall depending upon environmental conditions.

That was my understanding of how it works, but read this thread Change in target margin.  

On the day of migration, my line was resync'd by me many times to try to login to either Idnet,or AAisp. The last try was at 2.30pm and every time the resync was at precisely 15dB as it had unerringly been for 3 weeks.

The internet connection went green shortly after 3pm and the router resync'd at that moment at 3685 with 6dB.  As I stated in the thread linked to above, it is beyond possibility.

Between 18/10/2010 and 24/11/2010 every resyc resulted in a 15 dB margin.  Every resync since the migration went live on 24/11/2010 has been at 6dB

You state that "Noise margins will rise and fall depending upon environmental conditions" and so they do, but there is clear evidence that did not happen to my line.

Nothing will change about this sorry mess until an ISP makes a stand and goes to OFCOM.   How much evidence is needed ?

[kinmel]

It is 30 days since I migrated to AAISP following 7 weeks of poor line performance with IDNet and my line has been released from special measures by AAISP's critical care team.

So, how is the line that could only sync at 2600 at 15dB with a 2 meg profile..............




I am now connected at 4720 with a 4meg profile, exactly twice the performance for the same monthly payment and all because the Noise margins that will rise and fall depending upon environmental conditions. changed at the exact moment of migration and have stayed changed ever since.

[pctech]

How are you finding AAISP Alan, I was looking as they have very generous off peak allowances.

[kinmel]

How are you finding AAISP Alan, I was looking as they have very generous off peak allowances.

I can't fault them, short peak hours ( Mon-Fri, 9 to 6) and 100Gb per bandwidth unit off peak is generous compared to others.

Support is as good as any and each item raised is then owned by a named technician, the user Control Panel and Line Management Info System is beyond comparison with any other ISP.

I am not unhappy.

[Gary]

Far to expensive for me, I use 11GB per month peak easily. Next year though I will have to tighten the belt somewhat.

[DorsetBoy]

Far to expensive for me, I use 11GB per month peak easily. Next year though I will have to tighten the belt somewhat.

11GB is not much Gary, my boy can use that in 2 days given the chance  we often hit 50GB + a month , if he was not at away a school we would certainly exceed that.

[kinmel]

I didn't move for bandwidth considerations, AAISP's charging model certainly makes sure you limit downloads during peak periods, but I find that easy enough to do and I used 3 units last month without it being a problem.

To be fair, IDNet's allowances are much more suited to modern internet usage, I never got close to their present allowance limits of 40Gb/140Gb.

[Gary]

11GB is not much Gary, my boy can use that in 2 days given the chance  we often hit 50GB + a month , if he was not at away a school we would certainly exceed that.

yes but thats peak day time, not including off peak Dorset, AASIP is to expensive on the peak rate for me. This month I'm at about 15Gb peak but thats with me coming on at 7am off line at about 6pm then going on at midnight again,

[DorsetBoy]

Ah, that is why I moved to a 75GB anytime package, none of this peak nonsense to worry about.

[Gary]

Ah, that is why I moved to a 75GB anytime package, none of this peak nonsense to worry about.

I am on adsl Max no other option at my exchange.

[Rik]

There's always dial-up,  Gary. 

[Gary]

There's always dial-up,  Gary. 

Sometimes the DNS lookups feel like it anyway, Rik 

[Rik]