It's started...

Bill · Dec 09, 2010, 15:13:29

Possible FTTC cross-talk, that is.

Lost internet briefly about half an hour ago, BQM showed a rise in ping time so thought it might just be a change in routing for some reason.

Just in case, I ran a BT speedtest (that's the yellow spike a little later)... profile is down to 33598 from 38717

Interestingly though, the DSL light on the modem didn't go out

Rik · Dec 09, 2010, 15:57:32

Anything in the logs, Bill?

Bill · Dec 09, 2010, 16:05:13

Nothing useful, just the "Disconnected" and "Connection established" times. No info available from the BT modem.

I've been getting these brief disconnects for a while now (but no drop in profile), around one every day or two. I've been assuming it was PPP as the DSL light didn't go out, but I'm beginning to wonder if they were actually sync losses and the DLM is getting nervous.

Rik · Dec 09, 2010, 16:08:07

It's always possible, Bill. If you ask support, they'll tell you what they see from their end.

Bill · Dec 09, 2010, 16:15:47

I'll do that, but I'll see how it goes for a few days first... one thing I want to do is change the grotty bit of flat twin phone cable that BT supplied for a length of Cat5

That'll have to wait until it's been up for while, don't want to give the DLM anything more to worry about.

Rik · Dec 09, 2010, 16:17:16

DLM worries terribly, Bill, I dins putting diazepam in the phone socket helps.

Bill · Dec 09, 2010, 16:31:35

Rather than shoving diazepam into the socket, I'd rather shove the DLM somewhere else

It caused me serious grief on ADSL2+, it only got sorted when Simon put me on the trial and got it switched off!

Rik · Dec 09, 2010, 17:15:59

Same here, Bill. Without it, I can maintain 6db target, interleaving off and 4M+ sync.

Bill · Dec 09, 2010, 18:04:01

I've seen nothing definite, but one or two posts over on tbb have rather implied that the trial has been ended and DLM control on ADSL2+ rolled out to ISPs, do you know anything about it?

And maybe whether the same option has been extended to other protocols?

(Not that I have any particular one in mind, of course...

)

Rik · Dec 09, 2010, 18:22:30

AFAIK, they are now able to exercise more control, Bill, and BT have 'de-sensitised' the DLM so banded profiles should no longer happen.

Bill · Dec 09, 2010, 18:30:54

Thanks Rik, good riddance to banded profiles...

I've only just realised that the increase in ping I saw was probably the DLM putting me on interleaved... I don't mind that, and I might be able to get the profile back up with a judicial re-sync when the line is quiet. Bit risky without being able to see the line stats though.

Rik · Dec 09, 2010, 18:33:14

Which will be worse soon, as BT are withdrawing the ability to look at line stats from all ISPs on Monday.

Bill · Dec 09, 2010, 18:38:13

That doesn't sound promising, you don't hide things if they look good...

It's time somebody developed a hack into that BT modem, the installation engineers can get the figures so they must be in there somewhere!

Rik · Dec 09, 2010, 18:41:47

Couldn't agree more on both points, Bill. Would Andrew be in a position to help?

I'm left with the feeling from this after all BT have done to IDNet and other smaller ISPs this year, that they are trying to create an environment in which the ISPs can't add value to the wholesale service.

Bill · Dec 09, 2010, 18:54:57

Andrew has a lot of contacts at BT, but I'm not sure about his detailed knowledge of the technical side of what they get up to. It needs someone with an FTTC connection, a thorough knowledge of Ethernet from the bottom up, good programming ability and ermm, shall we call it an enquiring mind

I was interested to see that TalkTalk were getting into fibre, which means that Opal were, and they're alternative wholesale carriers to BT... I'm not going to ask because nobody would tell me anyway, but I'm sure Simon and Tim will have noted it

Rik · Dec 09, 2010, 18:56:19

Little escapes their notice, Bill.

Bill · Dec 11, 2010, 17:27:09

Another resync... but profile has gone up this time, from 33598 to 33865

Every little helps

Rik · Dec 11, 2010, 17:28:29

You get your ADSL from Tesco?

pctech · Dec 11, 2010, 17:57:24

It does all seem a little orchestrated doesn't it.

Rik · Dec 11, 2010, 18:01:10

Though I'm not sure who's conducting, Mitch.

Glenn · Dec 11, 2010, 18:03:25

Or even if they are on the same music sheet.

Rik · Dec 11, 2010, 18:06:15

No chance, they're playing it by ear.

Technical Ben · Dec 14, 2010, 22:22:11

Thankfully you did not get this!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/14/bt_infinity_slowdown/

(Not sure if it's worth an extra thread)
[edit]
Found a great comment!
"The technical fault caused a limited(*) number of customers to see their speeds reduced to 2Mbit/s at certain times.

(*) Limited may be unlimited"

Bill · Dec 14, 2010, 22:25:35

Looking at the time El Reg posted it, they nicked it from tbb

Rik · Dec 15, 2010, 10:22:58

D-Dan · Dec 15, 2010, 13:14:05

Quote from: Technical Ben on Dec 14, 2010, 22:22:11
Thankfully you did not get this!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/14/bt_infinity_slowdown/

(Not sure if it's worth an extra thread)
[edit]
Found a great comment!
"The technical fault caused a limited(*) number of customers to see their speeds reduced to 2Mbit/s at certain times.

(*) Limited may be unlimited"

I was experiencing this - and down to 2Mbs which miraculously jumped back to full speed at the stroke of midnight. After it was reported by The Register on Monday, the drops stopped (though not on Monday as BT claimed - it was Tuesday when the drop first didn't happen).

As they said, it's a remarkable coincidence that a technical fault should manifest itself at precisely the time BTs traffic shaping kicks in

Steve

Rik · Dec 15, 2010, 13:15:14

You're not insinuating anything are you, Steve?

D-Dan · Dec 15, 2010, 13:16:41

Surely insinuating it would require a degree of stealth in what I say.

I'm insinuating nothing at all. I'm saying it outright.

Steve

Rik · Dec 15, 2010, 13:19:26

Good for you.

Technical Ben · Dec 15, 2010, 13:28:08

Some were wondering if "30gb" was typed by mistake from "300gb". Would explain why some got the problems, and others did not. 30gb sounds a lot, but when you got Fibre, there is speed and incentive to use things up.

Bill · Jan 16, 2011, 15:29:18

Had another resync earlier today, I've been getting them every day or so since mid-December, but the profile has remained doggedly at ~30-31Mbps and the latency at ~20msec, ie looks like interleave is on.

After today's one the profile is up to >37Mbps (not quite full whack) and latency back to ~10msec, so it looks like I'm back on fastpath. It reinforces my feeling that the DLM does an occasional resync "on spec" to see if things have improved since last time.

(Ignore the first lot of red spikes, that was me trying to get IPv6 working)

Have to wait and see if it sticks, but if it does it would imply that Christmas lights might have been the problem and (more surprisingly) that BT might have finally got the DLM to a state where it's actually being useful...

Rik · Jan 16, 2011, 15:34:50

Come on, Bill, your last statement is preposterous,

Glad things have improved for you.

.Griff. · Jan 16, 2011, 15:39:36

Quote from: Bill on Jan 16, 2011, 15:29:18
Had another resync earlier today, I've been getting them every day or so since mid-December,

I'm so glad to hear you say that Bill as I thought it was only me!

Just like you say since mid-December I've resynced almost every day and some days more than once. My IP Profile also seems to go up and down, up and down, up and down as well.

Bill · Jan 16, 2011, 15:47:13

Quote from: Rik on Jan 16, 2011, 15:34:50
Come on, Bill, your last statement is preposterous,

It does seem totally unbelievable I must admit, but when was the last time you saw an MSAN-initiated resync give a 15% increase in speed and a halving of latency?

And by the way- I got IPv6 working, so the next question is obvious: when does this bbs get a v6 address?

Rik · Jan 16, 2011, 15:51:32

When IDNet give us one.

Bill · Jan 16, 2011, 16:04:08

Thought that might be the answer

Rik · Jan 16, 2011, 16:08:23

You know I wouldn't want to disappoint you, Bill.

Bill · Jan 16, 2011, 16:19:11

Somewhat off-topic... if I use one of the test sites (http://test-ipv6.com/) it tells me what my IPv6 address is on the WAN (internet) side, does this address come from IDNet or somewhere else?

Rik · Jan 16, 2011, 16:21:23

It must come from IDNet, Bill. I wonder if FTTC is being configured for IPv6 from the outset.

Bill · Jan 16, 2011, 16:35:59

It shouldn't be related to FTTC, if IPv6 doesn't work over copper there's going to be a lot of very cross people around

I'll have to keep an eye on it, atm I don't even know if it's static or dynamic.

Rik · Jan 16, 2011, 16:47:26

Same IP in all your messages, Bill.

Bill · Jan 16, 2011, 17:47:21

I'd expect that- unless it looks something like 2a02:68:1:0:213:72ff:fe39:1ae6 then it's my IDNet static IPv4 address.

(That IP belongs to tbb by the way, it's not mine)

Rik · Jan 16, 2011, 17:48:42

I wonder whether you speak IPv4 and IPv6 then?

Bill · Jan 16, 2011, 18:02:48

I think that's the case. There was some talk on tbb about A and AAAA (v4 and v6) records in the DNS, and the behaviour of the link depended which one was returned first and whether the initiating modem/router knew what to do with it.

I didn't really understand it, but I think that if I access a v4-only site it sees my v4 address, a v6-only site sees my v6 one, and if both are enabled then it will use whichever is first in the lookup table. Probably v4 at the moment, I gather IE has problems sorting the two out.

But I'll say it again- I don't really know

Rik · Jan 16, 2011, 18:03:32

That makes two of us, Bill. I'll try and find out more tomorrow.

Bill · Jan 16, 2011, 18:35:20

All I really want is not to have to worry or care whether a url I type in has a v4 or v6 address at the other end

But it would certainly be nice to have a broad idea of how it works, if only to give some idea of whether to kick it or scream for support if it starts to play silly sods

Just for info, I can connect to ipv6.google.com OK, but ping and traceroute both return "Unknown host"...

Rik · Jan 16, 2011, 18:37:40

I'll dig around, give me a nudge if I forget.

Rik · Jan 17, 2011, 10:41:33

As I understand it from support, Bill, their radius servers allocate a dynamic IPv6 address to those who can use it. That means you need a router which supports IPv6 plus the backhaul network. My hunch, and it's no more than that, is that FTTC is currently offering that, but not ADSL.

Bill · Jan 17, 2011, 11:14:39

Thanks Rik.

We need some brave soul with a v6-capable router but not on FTTC to try it out... and before long I suspect you may need an IPv6 support forum

Rik · Jan 17, 2011, 11:27:30

You may well be right. The end of the mighty 2700 is in sight.

Bill · Jan 17, 2011, 12:13:24

I think there's a bit of life left in the 2700 yet

One site I visited yesterday was giving February 13th as the day we run out of IPv4 addresses, but even if it's accurate I think it's going to be some while before the average user is seriously inconvenienced. There's simply too much invested in IPv4... can you imagine the reaction of the bulk ISPs (BT, Plusnet, Talktalk, Virgin...) having to provide the support to upgrade their customer base and explaining why? Let alone how... they'll go off and lie down in a darkened room at the mere thought of it

I'd think that the more specialist ISPs (IDNet, Zen, A&A etc) tend to attract more tech-aware users, so less of a problem, and commercial users should have seen it coming long ago and made preparations.

I don't really need it, I only upgraded because it's there and I can

Rik · Jan 17, 2011, 12:16:23

A bit like buying a new car, eh Bill?

Bill · Jan 17, 2011, 16:41:44

You know me too well

Rik · Jan 17, 2011, 16:43:19

Bill · Jan 17, 2011, 20:46:43

Quote from: Bill on Jan 16, 2011, 18:35:20ping and traceroute both return "Unknown host"...

A little bit of googling reveals that I've got a couple of commands to get around that- ping6 and traceroute6