ADSL2+ updgrade

[Rik]

That's just the firewall working. Your line seems reasonably stable, tbh.

[armadillo]

Ok I thought I'd do a bit of investigating. The only thing which has changed recently was the addition of a sony blu ray player with an ethernet connection to the router. As soon as I unplugged the ethernet cable from the router, the Noise dropped from 15.1 and is now at 8.0. This happened within 5 seconds. Yeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaa  

Edit: still connected at only 1856 but I'm more hopeful, noise now 7.9

Hang on a mo. That is nothing to celebrate. It is ouch, not yeeehaaa :-(

The noise did NOT drop. The noise MARGIN dropped with no increase in sync speed. That means that the noise increased.

If you unplug things without resyncing or rebooting the router, you want the reported noise margin to increase. A good result would have been to unplug the bluray and see the noise margin increase to 24dB or 25dB.

In the situation where noise margin has dropped from 15.x to 8.x without a resync, that means your noise has INCREASED by 7dB. Then if you resync, accidentally or deliberately, your sync will drop to a level such that your target noise margin of 15dB can be maintained. That is why you resynced at 15.1dB but only 896 kbps.

To summarise:
Make any change without a resync and you want your noise margin to INCREASE.
If you resync immediately after a drop in noise margin, you will get a lower sync speed.
If you resync after a stable increase in noise margin, you should get a higher sync speed.
After a resync, you want a higher sync speed and a lower noise margin.

Experts correct me if any of this is wrong. I say you still have an unsolved noise problem. I am not competent to diagnose why removing the bluray ethernet cable from the router decreased the noise margin. But it should not have happened.

[Rik]

Good point, Dill. I must admit I've been more than a little pre-occupied with getting the forum repairs sorted over the past week, and didn't read the post as I should have done. 

[armadillo]

Thanks for confirming my understanding, Rik. It looked odd to me to see a whole little sequence of posts apparently rejoicing in the noise margin going the wrong way 

[Rik]

We've had a fraught few days, Dill. 

[gwidnet]

Hang on a mo. That is nothing to celebrate. It is ouch, not yeeehaaa :-(

The noise did NOT drop. The noise MARGIN dropped with no increase in sync speed. That means that the noise increased.

If you unplug things without resyncing or rebooting the router, you want the reported noise margin to increase. A good result would have been to unplug the bluray and see the noise margin increase to 24dB or 25dB.

In the situation where noise margin has dropped from 15.x to 8.x without a resync, that means your noise has INCREASED by 7dB. Then if you resync, accidentally or deliberately, your sync will drop to a level such that your target noise margin of 15dB can be maintained. That is why you resynced at 15.1dB but only 896 kbps.

To summarise:
Make any change without a resync and you want your noise margin to INCREASE.
If you resync immediately after a drop in noise margin, you will get a lower sync speed.
If you resync after a stable increase in noise margin, you should get a higher sync speed.
After a resync, you want a higher sync speed and a lower noise margin.

Experts correct me if any of this is wrong. I say you still have an unsolved noise problem. I am not competent to diagnose why removing the bluray ethernet cable from the router decreased the noise margin. But it should not have happened.

Oh!
As an update no blu-ray, this is the current state of play

ADSL Link   Downstream   Upstream
Connection Speed   1888 kbps   448 kbps
Line Attenuation   37.0 db   19.0 db
Noise Margin   14.9 db   18.0 db

I saw on another forum that if you wiggle the phone lead and the noise changes it could be a faulty lead, so my next plan is to try a new phone cable.

I'm just about to resync (not done since last night) and see what happens

Edit: Resynced at 1888 again
Edit again: If the noise increased immediately I disconnected the blu ray, only to go up after an unknown length of time ? mins then is it likely it points to a faulty router - having made no other changes to the filters/ring/sockets etc? The house is only 4 years old, so the circuitry is quite new, and I have disconnected the sky box. There is only one other telephone connected and I have disconnected that also.

[Rik]

I don't know that it point to a faulty router, it could be emissions from the bluray player. Could you try it on someone else's router?

[gwidnet]

I think I have eliminated the blu ray - it's not even on now.

I have a plan

I'm going to stop worrying about it for a couple of days, see what happens after the upgrade on wednesday and take it from there. I do have a spare router at work I could half inch for a day or two which I will try after the upgrade depending on speed.

As I see it, my connection has been perfect for about 3 years at about 5700 ish. I'd falsely fingered the blu ray (apologies blu ray), nothing else has changed, everything else is disconnected, so it's either my router/cable or a problem with the line (God forbid)

[Rik]

The latter may be cured by the upgrade, as it entails a physical wiring change at the exchange.

[esh]

All these DSL2 woes make me nervous for the scheduled exchange tweaking next month here. 

[Rik]

The thing to remember, esh, is we only hear of the problems. For me, I went from a 2-2.5M ADSL line to a 3.5-4M ADSL2+ line, and I have a very long line, 57db on ADSL, 61db on ADSL2+. The line is stable, and I'm able to run at a target NM of 6db, rather than the 9db on ADSL.

[gwidnet]

I suspect you are interested to know what happened after the upgrade.

This is the current state of play

ADSL Link   Downstream   Upstream
Connection Speed   935 kbps   1075 kbps
Line Attenuation   35.5 db   14.9 db
Noise Margin   15.3 db   7.1 db

Superfast upstream, not so fast downstream.

Should I give it a time to acclimatise or source another router? 

[Steve]

Sadly I'm not surprised. Having looked at the FAQs mentioned earlier in this thread,can you confirm what actions if any you've tried to source the noise that's effecting your line.

[gwidnet]

Hi Steve, I've disconnected all other telephone devices, including the sky box and home phone. The blu ray has been off for a few days. I have connected the router to the master socket which comes into the house in the garage. I've tried connecting the router to the phone line with a different filter.

Glyn

Edit: to recap, the only time the Noise fell quickly from 15 ish to 7 ish was just after I had disconnected the blu ray from the router

[Steve]

If you've got the modern BT master socket,you'll find a test socket behind the face plate, can you connect the router directly to this? You'll need a filter if you wish to connect the phone as well. Using the test socket disconnects the house's internal phone wiring and we're looking for an increase in the noise margin for the same sync or an increase in downstream sync with or without a change in margin.

[gwidnet]

Ok a proper yeeeeeeehaaaaaaa 

One new router later (a cisco WAG320N)... I'm now have downstream rate 6555, upstream rate 1075. 

I'm not sure where to find the noise levels on this new router - I've looked around can't find it anywhere, but I'm not too fussed. My connection is faster than before (was about 5700 ish), more download capacity, and when I get brave enough I'll whack my blu ray on again.

I am grateful for all the help I've had on here, you guys really are great.

I know I should be grateful my connection is back up to where it always has been (and better) - and I am grateful, ....... but is there a chance it may get faster still?

[Rik]

There's a good chance it will, Glyn, if your line stays stable.

[gwidnet]

Just out of interest and if it is of any help, I found the router stats at this address from another forum

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php#54

and for my new router

http://192.168.1.1/setup.cgi?next_file=adsl_driver.htm

--- System Information ---
Vendor: Linksys
ModelName: WAG320N
Firmware Version: 1.00.12 , 2010-03-22T10:51:43
Boot Version: 1.06
Hardware Version: 0.01

--- DSL Information ---
DSL Driver Version:  AnnexA version - A2pB023k.d21d
DSL VPI/VCI:         0/38
DSL Status:          Showtime
DSL Mode:            ADSL2+
DSL Channel:        
DSL Upstream Rate:   1107 Kbps
DSL Downstream Rate: 6624 Kbps

                     Down         up    
DSL Noise Margin:    15.0 dB       6.5 dB
DSL Attenuation:     39.0 dB      14.9 dB
DSL Transmit Power:   0.0 dBm     12.8 dBm

--- Wireless Information ---
Wireless Driver Version: 5.10.85.0.cpe4.402.4
Wireless Status: Enabled
Wireless Wide Channel: 9
Wireless Standard Channel: 11- 2.462GHZ
Wireless SSID: Linksys

--- Dynamic Information ---
LAN Mac Address: 00:25:9C:87:6C:0D
WAN Mac Address: 00:25:9C:87:6C:0F
Wireless Mac Address: 00:25:9C:87:6C:0E


As you see my noise is unchanged. Will my noise value fall as my line is more stable and be reduced in 3dB increments down to the usual 6dB?
What I reckon was happening was that my router was getting more dodgy by the day and the nose margin was being increased by the great god BT to try to keep my flagging router going.
It's quite interesting this stuff really isn't it?

[Steve]

Fingers crossed and see how it goes over the training period.

[Rik]

Theoretically, Glyn, your noise margin will reduce in 3db increments for every two weeks you maintain a stable connection until you reach 6db (sometimes 3db with ADSL2+) or the line becomes unstable again. However, with a bit of luck your new training period will, as Steve suggests, sort it out more quickly.

[gwidnet]

Another update form me, I think things are going ok. My noise margin has reduced as you predicted Rik to 12 now.

Here are my current stats

--- DSL Information ---
DSL Driver Version:  AnnexA version - A2pB023k.d21d
DSL VPI/VCI:         0/38
DSL Status:          Showtime
DSL Mode:            ADSL2+
DSL Channel:        
DSL Upstream Rate:   1099 Kbps
DSL Downstream Rate: 7968 Kbps

                     Down         up    
DSL Noise Margin:    11.9 dB       6.5 dB
DSL Attenuation:     39.0 dB      14.9 dB
DSL Transmit Power:   0.0 dBm     12.4 dBm

   

My sync has improved a bit more, but my IP profile is still set on 750 with the BT speedtester, so still quite slow speeds.

Am I right in thinking it just needs more time and it's too early to be thinking about a stuck IP profile?

[Rik]

How many days is it, Glyn?

[gwidnet]

Rik, it was wednesday afternoon when I got my new router

[Rik]

Give it till Monday, then.

[gwidnet]

Ok will do thanks Rik