A BT Experience

[michaelwal]

Glad to be Back
I have been with IDnet since 2007, and apart from a email server outrage some time ago have received good service and not needed support.
However lured by BT's come back to us Broadand and phone for £16/month I decided to migrate and placed the order to complete on 24th January, in the meantime I had another look at this offer and decided in wasn't what it seemed and cancelled on 14th January, received confirmation that the order was cancelled.(that was 10days notice)
On the 24th my broad band had a BT retail tag put on it, the router arrived (I declined to accept) after many phone frustrating calls and emails (back to a 56k dial up connection) in which I was assured the order had been cancelled. The tag was eventually removed and a MAC given to me that evening, which I sent to IDnet, however before they could use it a "cease" broadband was placed on the line.( was this a nasty?"don't cancel orders with us")
By the time the "cease" was removed it was to late and a reconnection was the only way forward.
So on the 2nd Feb. I thankfully rejoined IDnet, their support staff were helpful all along the way, I even emailed them at 20.00 hours that evening was answered within 15 minutes and a solution was found to the problem I had with the router.
I just hope IDnet  stay and remain independant, and don't go the way of Metronet
Many Thanks to IDnet. I rate them highly indeed.

I don't wish to slag of BT, I am sure they have many satisfied customers, but I find their website a nightmare to navigate, and if you phone be prepared for long waits, and to be passed from one friendly, and polite call centre operative to another, where you will be required to go through the whole sorry business and come away with shaking your head in disbelieve as they interupt to ask if you would like to take part in a customer satisfaction survey.
The best way I found to communicate with BT was in the evening by email to Complaints Section.

I would like to put a claim in to BT for the reconnection charge and the charges for using the 045 number. any one with ideas as to how approach this with BT  (but not by Phone) or should I just put it down to a bad experience

[Rik]

Welcome to the forum, Michael.

I'm sorry, but not surprised, to hear of your troubles. BT, sadly, have all the customer service ethos of Ryanair. It might be worth contacting Ian Livingston, the CEO, to make a fuss.

[Simon]

Welcome, Michael.  Sorry to hear your tale of woe, but glad to have you back. 

[john]

.... and if you phone be prepared for long waits, and to be passed from one friendly, and polite call centre operative to another, where you will be required to go through the whole sorry business

I have a friend who about two years ago changed from AOL because of the poor service he received from them and went to SKY. He tells me much the same thing (though he didn't mention if their operators were friendly or not) and says they often disconnect during the call and he has to explain the whole problem all over again to someone else. He suspects that they do this because it is beyond their competence on how to solve the problem anyway.

I did advise him to try Idnet at the time and even made some enquiries on his behalf (which is the only time I think I've had reason to call them after joining) but he was attracted to SKY's apparent lower cost and the TV channels.

[michaelwal]

I have a update on my claim for reimbursement to BT for the reconnection and the use of the dial up 045 number.
My persistence in emailing BT accounts and eventually making use of their complaints procedure, has resulted in them agreeing to paying those charges and my bank account will be credited in the next few days. (hopefully!!)
In the meantime my mobile phone has been receiving  text asking for their router back, I never signed for it and it should have been returned to sender via Parcel Force
Tried text back but the number won't accept return text, so I spent another 15 minutes on the phone to them, interupted with the inevitable would you like to participate in a customer satisfaction survey. Grrrrr!!
Needless to say I hope this is the end of a very frustrating fortnight.
My thanks to all who have read my "A BT experience"

[Simon]

Glad to hear your hard work paid off! 

[Rik]

They learnt their techniques from Chinese water torture, Michael.

[michaelwal]

Another update, over the last few days I have received from BT on two separate postings, two large grey plastic bags, I presume these are to  put in the non existant router which I returned to sender on the day it came, having refused to sign for it.
This is despite my 15 minute phone call telling them this.
I dare say the next thing will be a billing invoice for the equipment I can't send back because I don't have It!!
Why they can't track the item via Parcel Force? or is that asking to much!

[waltergmw]

Hello everybody,

The major problem I observe is that the BT organisation is so vast and so fragmented that these types of happenings are all too frequent and must actually be costing BT very significant sums indeed.
Many years ago BT realised they had an out-of-control "spaghetti problem" and did some rationalisation. It is high time that process was repeated.
These matters are certainly not helped by the seemingly Machiavellian exploits of their planning and marketing functions.

http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2011/02/25/245620/Regional-development-agency-delays-163150000-community-broadband.htm

Now back to another individual case. I was asked to help a very distraught lady in a village close by who had been without broadband or over a month after a power cut, had made 33 calls to India, had 6 engineer visits and 5 new modems.
I plugged in my old faithful 2Wire 2700HGV and, without attempting to authenticate, discovered that the line was the best I had ever seen (picture below I produced to illustrate how no USO affects ADSL fault investigation).
Very fortunately I have some senior contacts in BT who steered my anguished complaint to the "Director of BT - My Help".
That triggered the usual complaint team into overdrive and got 2 senior engineers working over the Autumn bank holiday to reconfigure the authentication data in the Kingston upon Thames RAS.
The underlying problems here are that India and their customer script writers have no real concept of BT's infrastructure or the way BT Openreach staff are micro-managed (and severely disciplined) to close jobs down before they are even properly investigated. If you were one of the BT O team and observed the line conditions wouldn't you be so delighted to tick one of the many job proforma boxes saying "line is perfect" and get the hell out of this on to the next job?

Kind regards,
Walter

[Rik]

I agree with you Walter, BT have ceased to consider customers, they are only interested in shareholders.

[pctech]

Can echo that experience with BT Plusnet (1 month to get a MAC) and best part of 6 months to get them to stop billing me for line rental for lines I had migrated away.

I'll go into detail some day.

My broadband is now with Zen (they gave me a good discount and can build up a bank of bandwidth which keeps rolling over until used backed up by great service just like IDNet) and IDNet for my phone lines (great tariffs and terrific service)

Am really proud to do business with both of these companies.

[cavillas]

I HATE BT/OPENREACH.

[pctech]

Join the long line Alf.

I've just put a query into Zen to see if they are planning to unbundle any exchanges down here as they have done in Rochdale (where they are based), Leeds and Manchester but I'm not holding out much hope as they have Points of Presence in data centrees in those places (so may only be a short fibre run) but the nearest POP to me is Telehouse in London where BT currently backhaul the traffic to unless they want to set up a relationshop with BlueSquare Data or Tiscali/Talk Talk who both have DCs here.

[waltergmw]

@ PCTech,

IMHO there will be very little enthusiasm from any CP to install more LLU exchange equipment given the very gradual deployment of FTTC or more hopefully FTTP in the next decade or two.
Those who have deployed such LLU equipment now see the incumbent is able to gain a significant, but still very poor asymmetric speed advantage from FTTC, either by end users migrating back to them or by the CPs having to buy relatively expensive services from them. (What "Open systems" perhaps I hear you ask ?? !!!)

Kind regards,
Walter

[Technical Ben]

... 5 new modems...

As soon as the supplier says "we will send another modem" I start to think something is up. O2 used that excuse with me. Never unpacked the modem. A new modem is not going to fix a congested virtual path in a million years. 

[Rik]

No, but you can flog it on eBay.

[pctech]

I'd not do that if I were you, O2 are very clear in their T & Cs that the supplied router remains their property at all times, if you leave you have a month to return it, if you don't you will be debited the cost (was £50 when I gave them a whirl but I never unpaacked it, I just put it in a wooden chest I have with cables and other tech stuff I have) but had to return it when I left.

I agreee Ben it may not help a congested VP but they prefer you use their router because it is TR-069 compliant which means they can tweak settings remotely (like sending down the username and password when you connect it) and it 'calls home' every so often to check for firmware updates like the 2700.

I can buy the same model router from Zen who also operate a TR-069 server but I generally prefer to use kit managed by me rather than having a service provider do it.

[pctech]

@ PCTech,

IMHO there will be very little enthusiasm from any CP to install more LLU exchange equipment given the very gradual deployment of FTTC or more hopefully FTTP in the next decade or two.
Those who have deployed such LLU equipment now see the incumbent is able to gain a significant, but still very poor asymmetric speed advantage from FTTC, either by end users migrating back to them or by the CPs having to buy relatively expensive services from them. (What "Open systems" perhaps I hear you ask ?? !!!)

Kind regards,
Walter

Sadly yes Walter, my only thoughts being that as they have always been an ISP (like IDNet) that they would do a better job of managing things end to end and not have to rely on BT except for the final loop.

BT are no more open now than they have ever been, they just do the minimum.

Someone was crowing on Thinkbroadband about how wonderful Post Office broadband was but I pointed out that they are simply a BT reseller and PO lobbed BT £750 million for the privilege.

[Technical Ben]

I'd not do that if I were you, O2 are very clear in their T & Cs that the supplied router remains their property at all times, if you leave you have a month to return it, if you don't you will be debited the cost (was £50 when I gave them a whirl but I never unpaacked it, I just put it in a wooden chest I have with cables and other tech stuff I have) but had to return it when I left.

I agreee Ben it may not help a congested VP but they prefer you use their router because it is TR-069 compliant which means they can tweak settings remotely (like sending down the username and password when you connect it) and it 'calls home' every so often to check for firmware updates like the 2700.

I can buy the same model router from Zen who also operate a TR-069 server but I generally prefer to use kit managed by me rather than having a service provider do it.

No, I already had one of their routers, 3 days old. They used the "we will replace" as an excuse.

[pctech]

Are you unlucky enough to be on Access Ben?

[Technical Ben]

Are you unlucky enough to be on Access Ben?

Was. Just for 29 days! Too long IMO. Gave em a try as they were the best service, prices and signal on mobile, at least to me. Complete opposite on BT reselling.
They did technically waiver the connection fee though*. So not complaining...  


^{*30 day happiness guarantee. On a 12 month contract, so no connection fee/modem fee. The service died after 4-5pm every day though. I could not get pings better than 150ms, and needed them better for any games. Otherwise I get disconnects. Internet browsing was also slow and unresponsive, with download throughput at .5meg at peak times. I was not happy. So asked for a Mac, and went to IDNet. Only had to send the routers back, free post.}

[pctech]

Always been excellent mobile wise but after my experience with their ADSL support staff I'd not touch them again for that.

[Holodene]

I spent 45 minutes on hold to BT the other day, requesting a MAC for a client. My client had previously requested the MAC online and had been waiting for 15 days without a single response from BT. Shocking.

[Lance]

Shocking, but also in breach of ofcom rules.

[Simon]

But do they care?

[Rik]

If you complain to Ofcom they do.