Can other users post their latest TBB Quality Monitor graph please?

[Bill]

OK, I'll go and moan in tbb.

[Rik]

Good on you, Bill.

I had confirmation that it really doesn't matter which domain you're on, eg gw5, gw6 etc. These days, we're all on the same hostlink so there should be no performance differences.

[Bill]

On a side note I'm running WinMTR to various hosts and all are coming back with packetloss

I thought from the WinMTR output you posted in tbb that they might be contributing to the problem, but none of their hosts are in those...

[joe]

Here's mine

<a title="Broadband Ping" href="http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/d534bb0c8651ab2278404678297a86db-09-02-2011.html"><img alt="My Broadband Ping - bj" src="http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-large/d534bb0c8651ab2278404678297a86db-09-02-2011.png" /></a>

[joe]

Graph for 7th was odd in that there was no activity after midnight and like others graph for 8th is unavailable. I looked yesterday and I'm sure it was there but with nothing recorded for part of the time i.e no latency no nothing - perhaps it was down or something.

<a title="Broadband Ping" href="http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/0df0fb00b6726b2ee72951a9e682516a-07-02-2011.html"><img alt="My Broadband Ping - bj" src="http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-large/0df0fb00b6726b2ee72951a9e682516a-07-02-2011.png" /></a>

[Steve]

What I am seeing on my adslmax if I look back over the last few months and compare that with this weeks,is quite an increase in the variation in maximum latency when my home network is idle, this was not occurring in say December when if the home network was quiet there was very little change in latency. This implies to me congestion either in BT,IDNets network or possibly TBB servers.

[Bill]

This implies to me congestion either in BT,IDNets network or possibly TBB servers.

That doesn't sound unreasonable, but at 4am?



I'm also bothered by the suddenness with which it started (around mid-January) and the rapidity with which it's got a lot worse.

The way it occurs in spikes lasting 30 minutes or so, often with a degree of periodicity, is odd.

I'm sure it is congestion too, but something is exacerbating it... most likely faulty routing, maybe by BT, maybe by IDNet, it's yet to be proved.

And why is nobody outside IDNet reporting it? A single, reliable report (with graphs showing the same effect) from someone not using IDNet would be enough to reassure me on that matter.


Edit:IPv6 url

[.Griff.]

Perhaps it's worth a call to IDNet support? I'd be keen to know why multiple customers are experiencing huge spikes in latency and packet loss at identical times.

Maybe Rik could speak to them? I would but I'm sure my number flashes up and they get whoever got out of the wrong side of the bed to answer the call.

[Steve]

There does seem to be a bit of consistent evidence accruing

[sof2er]

Perhaps it's worth a call to IDNet support? I'd be keen to know why multiple customers are experiencing huge spikes in latency and packet loss at identical times.

Maybe Rik could speak to them? I would but I'm sure my number flashes up and they get whoever got out of the wrong side of the bed to answer the call.

Same packet loss amount as the rest here on FTTC, I confirm the TBB spikes by checking my "net_graph" when I'm gaming which confirms the packet loss. Never used to have this with my other provider, 100% clean but latency was an entire different issue....

Then again it won't matter too much unless it's a highly competitive gaming. (Ok well it does matter for streaming and websites loading!)

[Steve]

Some data from AAISP

http://clueless.aaisp.net.uk/congestion.cgi

[jameshurrell]

I've just found this topic and I, too, am seeing some odd behaviour on my two IDNet lines (not FTTC). This started at the end of January sometime, previous to that, the graphs were very quiet indeed when i wasn't using the connection. It's not adversely impacting my use of the internet, but I'd be interested to know what's causing it. The last week has shown some very colourful graphs.

Here's a couple of graphs.

Line 1 (21C) - 24hrs till now:


Line 2 (Legacy ADSL) - 24hrs till now:



Both lines were not in use yesterday - or very little indeed. There's correllation between the spikes too.

Here's how line 2 used to look -this is an office line so usage is 9-5. This is from 13 Jan:

[Simon_idnet]

We've been watching these graphs too. If all our customers were seeing the same pattern at the same time then we could be certain that it's something under our control - several thousands of customers at a time are routed through the same equipment at our end and that equipment isn't capable of picking out a few to treat differently from the rest.

We're still investigating.

[.Griff.]

Thanks for the update Simon.

[Bill]

OK, I'll go and moan in tbb.

Got a reply earlier- Jake goofed whilst doing a firmware update on the pingbox and BQM data for the 8th Feb and the morning of the 9th has been lost... he's very apologetic.

[Bill]

We're still investigating.

I'm happy with that, thanks Simon.

[Bill]

Not pointing any fingers, just a couple of BQM graphs to show why I don't think I'm seeing "natural" congestion, and maybe providing food for thought for others.

10th and 11th Feb:


On the 10th, that peak just after midnoight is vastly worse than I normally see. And further peaks at 3am and 6am? That peak suddenly dropping back at 7pm isn't normal either. In fact most of the peaks exhibit that behaviour- they ramp up over 15 minutes or so then abruptly drop back to normal.

And some evidence of periodicity... not exactly like clockwork, but around every 3-4 hours. It shows on earlier graphs too, but Rik wouldn't thank me for posting a month's worth of graphics

Move on to just before midnight... nearly an hour's worth of "congestion" that goes back to being quite reasonable again (graph for 11th) just before everybody's off peak period starts. Sorry, but I don't wear that as being "natural".

I can't explain what's happening, but if I had to describe it I'd say that something is periodically diverting my traffic on to the most congested route it can find for half an hour or so...


Edit :ipv6 removed

[joe]

As a matter of interest what link to 'share graph' are you guys using to display your graphs as you do? Clearly I'm using the wrong link!

[Bill]

I use the final one listed, it's labelled:

Small Graph (500x219 px) - BBCode (for forums; not yet supported on thinkbroadband forums)

Just copy/paste it straight in to the post.



(Editing "ipv6" to "www" if necessary... thanks Steve )

[.Griff.]

For reference.

[joe]

Thanks Bill

[psp83]

Here's mine :

ADSL2+ in Wiltshire.



Connection was not used after 11pm last night until about 7am(ish).

No idea what happened at lunch time.

[Technical Ben]

Entirely my opinion, and I'm not an expert, but looks like congestion to me. Downloads after 12, for off peak or what ever. Peaks a bit when people get home, then again in the morning when they get up.
No idea where the problem would be. Could it be BTs own backbone? One FTTC/P connection could cause a big strain on an exchange could it not? Let alone a few streets worth. Or am I totally off? I remember when contention was 50/1 what is it now?

[.Griff.]

I don't think it's congestion for a few reasons.

Firstly the timing - I have graphs with huge peaks at 4am in the morning. That's 4 hours after off peak starts and I can't imagine many people being online at that time of day let alone all deciding to hammer their connections at the same time.

Secondly the shape of the peaks don't match congestion. The increase in latency increases far too suddenly and if you look carefully in most instances it ends abruptly.

Thirdly these are documented cases of congestion (These examples were taken when of Be's key links, Akamai, went down and they were forced to use a backup which became congested)





In these cases the minimum ping increases dramatically but there's no appreciable increase in packet loss. On the IDNet graphs of late every spike is accompanied by a marked increase in packet loss at the same time.

[Lance]

Ben, since max there hasn't been contention ratios quoted.