How long should I give from switching ISP to testing IDNET speed?

[Tetlee]

I know usually ISP's ask that you give a week of service for fluctuations in speed etc. before getting an idea of the service being offered, is this the same with IDNET?

Reason I ask is that we have just come off SKY broadband and were hoping to see some improvement switching to IDNET, but since switching over today we've taken a slight drop in speed and a wildly random ping(anything from 40ms which is typical for us, up to 300 odd ). Is this the norm? and is there still a chance our speed could increase yet(perhaps I need to call them as SKY did boost our speed around half a gig after calling to moan about our speeds).

I should say that we're a few miles from our exchange so can't expect high speeds, but used to get up to 3GB down with BT, then SKY for the past 12 months it's been pretty consistent 2-2.5GB, currently with IDNET it's 1.5-2GB.

Guess we're just impatient to know if that's it or if it could improve over the next 7-14 days, and should the ping stabalise.

Thanks in advance.

[Holodene]

Which Sky package were you on?

[pctech]

You need to allow ten days for automatic line training.

[Tetlee]

Which Sky package were you on?

The unlimited one, we had a tv/movie package with them aswell but have now ended the lot.

You need to allow ten days for automatic line training.

Ah, that is what I was hoping to hear, usually they state such as the above but I haven't noticed any mention of this in any of my communications with IDNET so didn't know if it was different being a monthly contract.

[pctech]

Within 10 days IDNet cannot get BT to adjust anything as they will say that the line parameters are being established.

If you are still unhappy after 10 days talk to support.

[Tetlee]

Within 10 days IDNet cannot get BT to adjust anything as they will say that the line parameters are being established.

If you are still unhappy after 10 days talk to support.

Thanks for the info Mitch.

[Glenn]

Tetlee I hope things settle down on your line.

[Tetlee]

Thanks for the welcome

[Simon]

[zappaDPJ]

 

Hopefully your line will settle down within the 10 days.

[Rik]

Hi Tetlee, welcome to the forum.

What's been said is correct, you'll have to wait 10 days,  but I am sightly concerned about the varying ping time, it sounds like you may be on a congested VP at the exchange.

[Ray]

  Tetlee

[Tetlee]

Thanks guys(hey, I see 5 "have a karma" smileys, but I only have four), come on own up!

Anyway, not been having a good time since our first day of IDNet, was prepared for fluctuations but this is barely useable at the moment


^First speedtest IDNet 28-03-11


^Second test 29-03-11

30-03-11 Third test not possible as no internet access at all through out yesterday


^Fourth test, just now 31-03-11

Just been on the phone to support, he mentioned that Slough had a problem with BT yesterday and this was likely the cause of my lack of interenet here in Taunton, and seems to think it's my router that's causing the problem which is a TP Link TD-W8960N(great reviews around the web), sadly have no other router to test with but have just updated the firmware but no joy. Seems strange that the first day was fine, surely suggests the router should be ok

Any ideas anyone?

[Rik]

Slough probably was taking your line down, BT's geography is weird, to put it mildly.

Can you run a BT speedtest so that we can see your profile.

Where's the router connected, master socket or extension, what else is on the line, eg Sky box.

Ask support if there's any chance they could lend you a test router.

[Tetlee]

Slough probably was taking your line down, BT's geography is weird, to put it mildly.

Can you run a BT speedtest so that we can see your profile.

Where's the router connected, master socket or extension, what else is on the line, eg Sky box.

Ask support if there's any chance they could lend you a test router.

Will try the BT speedtest in a sec, looks like I need to do it over ethernet and can take an hour so will set the laptop up downstairs and report back once done.

The router is connected to the master socket which was replaced by BT over a year ago so should be good still, certainly was working fine with SKY up until we switched over to IDNet a few days ago. Nothing else on the line as finished with Sky and Sky box is not connected to the socket anyway(used to connect when ordering PPV only).

Good idea about asking for a test router, no sure if they'll be able to do that or not but at least could help diagnose the problem. Support will be closed now though so will have to call after work tomorrow.

[Tetlee]

ok, BT speedtest done, results.........

Download speedachieved during the test was - 18 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 100-250 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :288 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 440 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 135 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 11.29:38.71:50.23 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.

[Glenn]

Send that, if you can to support

[Steve]

Hi Tetlee.

Any chance you can post your router stats , downstream attenuation and noise margin which would be very useful also do you know whether your previous Sky connection was via BT or Sky LLU?

If your on an adsl2+ connection your current downstream sync is exactly the same as the lowest banded profile limit of 288kps.

Branded profiles are used by BT on adsl2+ broadband lines which show signs of instability or high error counts, they are designed to control the maximum downstream sync of a particular line. This technique is not used on adslmax or Sky LLU.

[Tetlee]

@Glenn, have done so.

Hi Tetlee.

Any chance you can post your router stats , downstream attenuation and noise margin which would be very useful also do you know whether your previous Sky connection was via BT or Sky LLU?

If your on an adsl2+ connection your current downstream sync is exactly the same as the lowest banded profile limit of 288kps.

Branded profiles are used by BT on adsl2+ broadband lines which show signs of instability or high error counts, they are designed to control the maximum downstream sync of a particular line. This technique is not used on adslmax or Sky LLU.

Hi Steve, I'm not the brightest when it comes to router stats and settings, but I think this lot should contain the info you're asking about(sorry for the mess, I copy and pasted it all)? Sky did have LLU at our exchange, where as IDNet of course do not, perhaps we were best being with Sky for this reason? Not sure I understand what you're trying to explain above, although tired now so will read it again and try to make sense tomorrow.

Mode:   ADSL_G.dmt.bis
Traffic Type:   ATM
Status:   Up
Link Power State:   L0

   Downstream   Upstream
Line Coding(Trellis):   On   On
SNR Margin (0.1 dB):   63   210
Attenuation (0.1 dB):   580   323
Output Power (0.1 dBm):   0   129
Attainable Rate (Kbps):   4432   880

   Path 0       Path 1   
   Downstream   Upstream   Downstream   Upstream
Rate (Kbps):   288   440   0   0

MSGc (# of bytes in overhead channel message):   59   12   0   0
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame):   0   55   0   0
M (# of Mux Data Frames in FEC Data Frame):   1   1   0   0
T (Mux Data Frames over sync bytes):   10   1   0   0
R (# of check bytes in FEC Data Frame):   12   8   0   0
S (ratio of FEC over PMD Data Frame length):   0.1000   4.0   0.0   0.0
L (# of bits in PMD Data Frame):   1040   128   0   0
D (interleaver depth):   320   8   0   0
Delay (msec):   8.0   8.0   0.0   0.0
INP (DMT symbol):   14.76   2.0   0.0   0.0

Super Frames:   282382   254949   0   0
Super Frame Errors:   0   0   0   0
RS Words:   183548670   294114   0   0
RS Correctable Errors:   27067   0   0   0
RS Uncorrectable Errors:   0   0   0   0

HEC Errors:   4294967289   0   0   0
OCD Errors:   0   0   0   0
LCD Errors:   0   0   0   0
Total Cells:   3117172   446366   0   0
Data Cells:   341062   345   0   0
Bit Errors:   0   0   0   0

Total ES:   0   0
Total SES:   0   0
Total UAS:   30   4294967059

[EDIT]Just to add once again, I'm confused as to why we had a great connection on our first day(Monday) with speedtests resulting in 2mb downloads.

[Steve]

I'm guessing or theorising firstly because you were on LLU with Sky you had to have a lift and shift at your local exchange so is that a reason for the poor line quality?Secondly looking at the stats I think the attentuation is 58 and the DS margin is 6.3 with a possible theoretical maximum sync of 4432, therefore with current sync of only 288 DS and the the DS margin you've got a very noisy line. Whether that's internal i.e poor filters or external to your property I've no idea.
It could of course be as support have suggested that router is not coping with BTs adsl2+. Sorry to confuse even more but it's a process of elimination.

[Rik]

Dial 17070 and select option 2, preferably using a wired handset, Tetlee. You should hear nothing more than a background hiss or hum. If there's any crackling or other loud noise, contact your voice line provider to report a fault, but don't mention broadband when you do.

[Tetlee]

I'm guessing or theorising firstly because you were on LLU with Sky you had to have a lift and shift at your local exchange so is that a reason for the poor line quality?Secondly looking at the stats I think the attentuation is 58 and the DS margin is 6.3 with a possible theoretical maximum sync of 4432, therefore with current sync of only 288 DS and the the DS margin you've got a very noisy line. Whether that's internal i.e poor filters or external to your property I've no idea.
It could of course be as support have suggested that router is not coping with BTs adsl2+. Sorry to confuse even more but it's a process of elimination.

I don't think it's an internal problem as like I mentioned, it was fine with BT prior to Sky, and has been fine with Sky for the past year, only now are we experiencing these problems. The router definately supports ADSL2+, it's this one http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0031SUB4S/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_9?ie=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

Again thanks for your continued efforts of help, it's very much appreciated even if we're having no luck so far. Speedtest.net result as of just now...

[Tetlee]

Dial 17070 and select option 2, preferably using a wired handset, Tetlee. You should hear nothing more than a background hiss or hum. If there's any crackling or other loud noise, contact your voice line provider to report a fault, but don't mention broadband when you do.

Thanks for the suggestion, just tried that and no background noise what so ever.

Been on the phone to James at IDNet tech support, very helpful chappie but unable to get to the root of the problem sadly. He is going to send a test router as someone suggested earlier for me, but that won't be posted until Monday now so looks like we have a few days of this still yet

[Rik]

Do you have an external grey test socket? I gather IDNet are lending you a router, it will be in the post on Monday. As you've already found out.

[Steve]

With regard the router we seen the odd instance with adsl2+ where there is an incompatibility between the modem chipset and the MSAN chipset at your local exchange.

[Tetlee]

Do you have an external grey test socket? I gather IDNet are lending you a router, it will be in the post on Monday. As you've already found out.

No, there isn't any test socket on our master socket, used to be on the old one but BT replaced that with an ADSL v1.0 master socket which has the filter built in, reomved the facia but no test socket like the last one had.

[Rik]

Odd, the only ones like that which I've come across have been when external demarcation points are installed.

[Tetlee]

In the router settings, what should go in the VPI(currently 0) and VCI(currently 38) sections? and what Encapsulation Mode(currently VC/MUX)?

Just wondering if there could be anything in the current settings that are causing issues.

[Rik]

Those settings are all correct.

[Glenn]

I thought all filtered ADSL faceplates had  a test socket behind them  http://www.bttorj45.com/NTE5%20ADSL%20faceplate%20instructions.pdf

[Rik]

So did I, Glenn, which is why I'm wondering if there's an external demarcation point.

[Tetlee]

I thought all filtered ADSL faceplates had  a test socket behind them   http://www.bttorj45.com/NTE5%20ADSL%20faceplate%20instructions.pdf

I will appologise, in my stupidity I was looking for a socket the same type as the modem socket, and thought that phone line socket was simply to connect the front plate seeing as that plugs into it, I'm sure the previous facia I had used to have a seperate specific test socket.

Test through actual test socket...



Anyway, plugged into it now but doesn't improve anything Both the wife and I are getting really frustrated with this now, never thought we'd be going through this after changing ISP, pretty gutted TBH as we use the internet alot, especially me as I usually game online most nights (zero chance of that this week).

I'm still convinced it isn't the master socket, it was fine with both BT and Sky, and really don't think it's the router either as that was working perfectly on Monday and out of 100+ reviews there's barely a reported problem with it(of course I'm aware it could be faulty but I doubt that personally).

It really seems that something has happened either at IDNet's end, or at the exchange, which drives me crazy as I'm pretty powerless to do anything and am now stuck paying more for internet that I would say is worst than dial-up.

[Rik]

You would have had a lift an shift at the exchange, my instinct would be to look there first. There's nothing IDNet can do to limit your sync speed, this is a local issue.

We do know of several cases of incompatibility between routers and BT's Huawei MSAN's, btw.

[Tetlee]

You would have had a lift an shift at the exchange, my instinct would be to look there first. There's nothing IDNet can do to limit your sync speed, this is a local issue.

We do know of several cases of incompatibility between routers and BT's Huawei MSAN's, btw.

Who do I contact about the exchange then, BT? And will I run the risk of the £180 bill if they check and find there isn't a fault there?

Had a bright idea to go out and purchase another router and take advantage of a sale/return in order to test earlier, but sadly my plan was foiled as modem/routers seem to be exempt from the usual return agreements.

[Rik]

You have to do this through IDNet. Try their router, if that solves the problem we know the answer, if it doesn't, they can start digging. Do use the test socket when you try it though. Until the router is ruled out or in, you do run the risk of a hefty BT charge.

[Tetlee]

We do know of several cases of incompatibility between routers and BT's Huawei MSAN's, btw.

I suppose this could be a possibility, but again the fact it worked fine on Monday confuses the hell out of me. As as side note on the router box it does state "for BT connections", so it should be compatible, oh and it is an ADSL2+ router. Even with this could it still be incompatible with my IDNet connection?

Oh, and again thank you for your continued responses, I very much appreciate the effort and have been amazed how quickly I've received replys every time I post

[Tetlee]

You have to do this through IDNet. Try their router, if that solves the problem we know the answer, if it doesn't, they can start digging. Do use the test socket when you try it though. Until the router is ruled out or in, you do run the risk of a hefty BT charge.

Yes, fair comment, I suppose I just have to sit and wait until next week, as frustrating as that may be. Will leave it there for now and report back hopefully around the middle of next week once I've received the router.

[Glenn]

If you are close to Reading, I could drop you a 2Wire router tomorrow so you could try that

[Rik]

I suppose this could be a possibility, but again the fact it worked fine on Monday confuses the hell out of me. As as side note on the router box it does state "for BT connections", so it should be compatible, oh and it is an ADSL2+ router. Even with this could it still be incompatible with my IDNet connection?

It's not an IDNet connection, even though you're paying them for the service. The link between you and the exchange is purely a BT Openreach one, and it's their choice of MSAN's which has caused problems with some routers in the past. It is IDNet's job to resolve the issue, which they will do to the best of their ability, but before they move to involving an engineer, they will seek to exclude your internal wiring, hence the use of the test socket, and your equipment. That's done to protect you as far as is possible from a BT charge.

Oh, and again thank you for your continued responses, I very much appreciate the effort and have been amazed how quickly I've received replys every time I post

We're happy to help if we can.

[Tetlee]

If you are close to Reading, I could drop you a 2Wire router tomorrow so you could try that

That's very good of you to offer, but I'm down in Somerset so a bit far to drop

[Steve]

When you receive the 'loan' router it would good to see the router stats on immediate connection to the test socket.

[Tetlee]

When you receive the 'loan' router it would good to see the router stats on immediate connection to the test socket.

If you mean to run the BT speedtest(from test socket) and post the results, then I will do so once I receive it.

[pctech]

They mean from the router's web interface itself.

[Steve]

I'd like to see the downstream sync and downstream noise margin from the router stats.

[lozcart]

When you receive the 'loan' router it would good to see the router stats on immediate connection to the test socket.

When I had the IDnet test router it was password protected so unfortunately I couldn't access the stats. I think IDnet do this so you can't mess with the settings.  

[pctech]

All Netgears are password protected

Try Admin as user and password or perhaps IDNet

[Rik]

Or we can ask IDNet... If you call them when you're ready to connect, Tetlee, they can watch the line come up and see what the stats are at that point.

[lozcart]

That's what I had to do Rik, let IDnet view the stats from there end. I tried all the normal Netgear passwords but the router was locked down.

[Rik]

It usually is.

[Tetlee]

Or we can ask IDNet... If you call them when you're ready to connect, Tetlee, they can watch the line come up and see what the stats are at that point.

Well, received the test router yesterday, called support before plugging it in but they weren't interested in doing the above(checking stats), just adivsed that we give it a few days using the test router and see if we find any improvement. The thing is our computers are upstairs and the router being wired only was going to be an inconveniece for us, so after giving it a test run and finding the exact same speed(0.12mbps) as with our other router, we decided to go with the suggestion of what the support guy(Brian) thought could be causing the problem. Turns out our line just seems to be unable to carry the ADSL2+ connection without losing stability, so asked to be switched back to standard ADSL, shame as main reason for switching was to get ADSL2+ and hopefully an extra half meg or more boost to our connection, but as least we're back to normal again, tonights speed test...



Will see how things pan out, if we don't feel the usual slow down on weekends then we'll probably stick with IDNet, but if we do(being on BTs line and some distance from exchange that could be quite likely) then we may as well switch back to a cheaper provider without the download limitations(realise now 15GB is going to be very tight for us but can't afford more), probably SKY.

Anyway, a huge thanks for all who contributed to this thread, your answers have been very helpful and this forum seems to be a shining example, much appreciated

[Steve]

Thanks Tetlee, your not the first who's line can't cope with adsl2+ however because your a re profiled back to adslmax you still keep the adsl2+ download allocation and the higher upload speed.

[Rik]

Sorry to hear that Tetlee. It's true that, for long lines, ADSL2+ just doesn't work for some people. OTOH, for others, including me, it can give substantial speed improvements, eg I went from a 2M profile to a 3.5M profile.