No service

cn1001 · Mar 30, 2011, 17:51:17

Internet went down about 5.30pm. Rg2 postcode. Any news?

cn1001 · Mar 30, 2011, 17:57:17

http://status.aa.net.uk/apost.cgi?incident=903

Just found this. Good old BT's fault, again. Always seems to happen when I am ' working from home' to

Rik · Mar 30, 2011, 18:05:10

They are watching you.

cn1001 · Mar 30, 2011, 18:14:41

Think they are Rik!

Glad I saved what I was working on before it went down

Rik · Mar 30, 2011, 18:15:51

Glenn · Mar 30, 2011, 18:16:03

I'm glad that the service to the Camberley area is not routed through Reading.

Mouseroo · Mar 30, 2011, 19:04:02

No service here either: TA1 postcode (01823 dialing code)

Rik · Mar 30, 2011, 19:06:14

Anyone routing through Slough or Reading will have no service. There are, iirc, 21 metro nodes, and 3 have failed in the past 18 hours. It's really not good enough, imo.

Glenn · Mar 30, 2011, 19:11:11

Service: Announcement
Updated: 2011-03-30 18:42:54
State: Sub-Optimal Service
Message: This appears to be a major fibre break in the Reading/Slough area so the time the repair will likely be quite long.

netn00b · Mar 30, 2011, 19:12:18

I am in devon. TQ postcode and it was fine 90 mins ago /sigh.

bat400 · Mar 30, 2011, 19:32:26

No service in EX2 (Exeter, Sowton Exchange) since I got home.

$:-\$

Glenn · Mar 30, 2011, 19:33:50

Any exchanges that are routed through Slough/Reading, will be affected.

gha128 · Mar 30, 2011, 19:46:38

Wokingham down
Glad I pad all that cash for fibre....cheers BT
guy

Steve · Mar 30, 2011, 19:52:21

Sorry Guy , but welcome to Idnetters anyway.

gha128 · Mar 30, 2011, 20:06:15

Cheers Steve
Sorry first post was a bit negative. Been an Idnet customer for about 4 years now and very happy at that.
Guy

Glenn · Mar 30, 2011, 20:30:30

Engineers are onsite according to AAISP http://status.aaisp.net.uk/apost.cgi?incident=904

Polchraine · Mar 30, 2011, 20:44:05

I have heard that it is not a failure but a physical break caused by either vandalism or a careless contractor ...

I know how bad it can be too ... a few years back I had two leased high capacity circuits running across the UK (42Mb each) and they were diversely routed. At 4 AM Saturday morning one went down at that turned out to be vandalism/theft of copper - fine we had a spare specifically to cater for that type of problem. 8:30 AM the second went down - a contractor put a JCB through the cables!

Intenti0n · Mar 30, 2011, 21:12:31

Phew! , i am not alone

My internet has been offline for the last few hours. I am in the Hounslow TW3 west london area.

Initially i thought there was something wrong with my password as i was getting authentication errors. So i spent the last 40mins troubleshooting passwords

fingers crossed it gets resolved soon.

thanks

Glenn · Mar 30, 2011, 21:23:16

Intenti0n

dunkers · Mar 30, 2011, 21:26:19

Does this BT problem only affect IDNet (again)? My Entanet line, also 21CN, is unaffected.

Glenn · Mar 30, 2011, 21:30:36

QuoteAll lines dropped on 100% 20CN-REGION-READING and 100% 21CN-REGION-SL - Open Today 20:03:58
Details
Today 17:54:24

All lines on 100% 20CN-REGION-READING and 100% 21CN-REGION-SL dropped at 2011-03-30 17:35:17
We have advised BT
This is likely to have affected multiple internet providers using BT

From AAISP's status page

dunkers · Mar 30, 2011, 21:39:29

Strange. Not that I'm complaining that one line still works, of course...

Glenn · Mar 30, 2011, 21:52:19

Dunkers, from Entanets pages, it looks like they use their own version of a 21CN http://www.enta.net/About-Entanet/Entanet-Network/

silverblade · Mar 30, 2011, 22:42:47

"2011-03-30 22:15: No useful update from BT as yet."

I wonder what update they were given?

psp83 · Mar 30, 2011, 22:52:32

Quote from: silverblade on Mar 30, 2011, 22:42:47
"2011-03-30 22:15: No useful update from BT as yet."

I wonder what update they were given?

"still broke, waiting for the kettle to boil before I do anything else"

pctech · Mar 30, 2011, 22:52:58

"Err, we're still working out how to trace a fibre break"

psp83 · Mar 30, 2011, 22:54:49

"google not working so can't find out how to fix a fibre break"

pctech · Mar 30, 2011, 23:00:32

"Engineer has gone for his dinner break and is looking for the nearest kebab shop"

Steve · Mar 30, 2011, 23:04:23

Perhaps as mentioned elsewhere http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-12860235 it was the large stolen block of kebab meat that fell on the fibre and broke it. The status report should read - several BT engineers are currently looking for some hot chilli sauce before they can eat their way through to the damaged fibre.

silverblade · Mar 30, 2011, 23:51:56

So... I had a little look around at various other ISP status pages - mainly because it tends to feel like the small ISPs get the short end of the stick with these matters.

I notice Plusnet are also experiencing this problem, their status updates seem fairly verbose.

Perhaps somewhat amusingly, it also appears BT broadband is affected, and they are providing the most insightful update of all:

"Estimated time to resolve: 2hrs
We know that some of our customers in the Slough area are having trouble getting online at the moment. Sorry about this. We're working to fix the problem as quickly as we can"

Oh also, AAISP's site mentions:
"The outage has been identifed by BT as an issue with a 21CN core router in Slough. Engineers are trying to restore connections. Earlier information appears to be incorrect - it is not a cable failure."

dunkers · Mar 31, 2011, 00:45:32

Quote from: Glenn on Mar 30, 2011, 21:52:19
Dunkers, from Entanets pages, it looks like they use their own version of a 21CN http://www.enta.net/About-Entanet/Entanet-Network/

Ah! I knew they were involved at an early stage with 21CN, but didn't realise it was a kind of parallel thing.

Bill · Mar 31, 2011, 01:18:49

@ Silverblade: Zen too:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/zen/t/3987358-bt-outage-slough-node-21cn-connections.html

Steve · Mar 31, 2011, 06:50:38

There are reports that the fault has now been resolved,

Athena · Mar 31, 2011, 08:35:51

Only just got back on the grid myself. LCP is looking very iffy (got a drop right after CHAP success last go), so I'm not sure I'm out of the woods yet.

Glenn · Mar 31, 2011, 08:41:45

Athena,

Steve · Mar 31, 2011, 08:43:25

Athena and

Ray · Mar 31, 2011, 10:02:31

Athena.

Athena · Mar 31, 2011, 10:22:43

Looking good for now. It does however make me wonder what they hire at BT. Monkeys?

Thanks for the welcome folks

Technical Ben · Mar 31, 2011, 10:25:46

Quote from: gha128 on Mar 30, 2011, 19:46:38
Wokingham down
Glad I pad all that cash for fibre....cheers BT
guy

I hope BT Guy is not as crazy as "Cable Guy".

Rik · Mar 31, 2011, 10:49:53

Worse, far worse.

pctech · Mar 31, 2011, 13:53:08

As usual, BT giving different answers to different companies and left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

Rik · Apr 04, 2011, 10:18:23

Interesting article on ThinkBroadband, which explains why smaller ISPs are more affected by network failures than large ones.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4629-bt-equipment-problem-takes-9000-broadband-users-offline.html

QuoteReports suggest the issue seemed to be mostly restricted to smaller broadband providers using Wholesale Managed Broadband Connect (WMBC) and not those on the Wholesale Broadband Connect (WBC) service which is more prevalent across larger networks

Gary · Apr 04, 2011, 10:20:46

Quote from: Rik on Apr 04, 2011, 10:18:23
Interesting article on ThinkBroadband, which explains why smaller ISPs are more affected by network failures than large ones.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4629-bt-equipment-problem-takes-9000-broadband-users-offline.html

Not what small broadband providers are needing in tough times like these

Rik · Apr 04, 2011, 10:24:26

Indeed. It does though, answer the question we often hear, "Why is IDNet affected when <insert big ISP name> isn't".

Tacitus · Apr 04, 2011, 10:25:40

What is the difference between "Wholesale Managed Broadband Connect" (WMBC) and "Wholesale Broadband Connect" (WBC)? Is it that BT have a greater involvement in the former compared to the latter, or is the former cheaper and therefore more used by smaller ISPs?

Rik · Apr 04, 2011, 10:30:27

My best guess would be that WMBC is managed by BTw, Tac, and more suited to smaller networks. If anything, I'd expect it to be more expensive.

Gary · Apr 04, 2011, 10:41:23

Quote from: Rik on Apr 04, 2011, 10:30:27
My best guess would be that WMBC is managed by BTw, Tac, and more suited to smaller networks. If anything, I'd expect it to be more expensive.

The bigger ISP's can afford that which does start to make you wonder, even though Idnets service is great you pay a premium for a less resilient service which seems back to front, but you also have the added benefits of the smaller ISP services with CS and no throttling etc, but how long before one out weighs the other I wonder?

Rik · Apr 04, 2011, 10:42:59

A question that customers and ISPs are juggling with, Gary.

Gary · Apr 04, 2011, 10:59:51

Quote from: Rik on Apr 04, 2011, 10:42:59
A question that customers and ISPs are juggling with, Gary.

This is the first year where I really am weighing up that equation with more factors than speed etc. If Xilo did a telephone plan, I would get a more resilient service in theory as they resell CPW LLU, It's cheaper than IDNets service now for adsl max which is all I can get, and lastly doubling my speeds almost is tempting for the same monthly outlay.

I just feel happy with IDNet but finance and other factors are pushing more and more, at some point the value I get will no longer be worth the outlay I fear, simply because we have no WBC or FTTC insight and if the smaller ISP's are going to keep getting hit by outages beyond their control then other packages look to be a better option. I dread the idea of moving, I like IDNet but the great CS is getting to be less of a reason to stay as time marches on, as my service along with many others in rural areas with low numbers of customers to attract upgrades are finding out. My service is slipping into the stone age of BB and in the end my hand will be forced.

Steve · Apr 04, 2011, 11:16:35

As far as I understand it WBC is equivalent to the old BT datastream and WBMC the old IPstream, although both products can be run by the same ISP however in order to run WBC they must have presence at the WBC aggregation points. There are twenty of these and there is a considerable initial outlay and running costs to be covered.

Simon · Apr 04, 2011, 11:21:56

So, do we know what IDNet use?

Steve · Apr 04, 2011, 11:23:54

My guess is WBMC as only the big boys can afford WBC.

Rik · Apr 04, 2011, 11:28:52

I'd agree, Steve.

Steve · Apr 04, 2011, 11:32:37

The information is on this page http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchanges/21cn_broadband. The aggregation point rental for instance is £48,000 pa each and there are 20 of those plus there are other associated costs

Rik · Apr 04, 2011, 11:36:38

Nice find, Steve.

Steve · Apr 04, 2011, 11:42:32

I guess WBC has the same issues as datastream had that in order to cover the outlay high contention is the norm.

Rik · Apr 04, 2011, 11:45:20

That and the need for a much larger customer base to make it viable.

Gary · Apr 04, 2011, 12:04:43

So al in all you will probably never get a more resilient service from a small niche provider, and as the BT system seem groans under the weight of new users and more to the point high traffic, it could get worse possibly?

Rik · Apr 04, 2011, 12:09:25

Possibly.

Technical Ben · Apr 04, 2011, 14:14:57

Possible? Definitely!?

Tacitus · Apr 04, 2011, 15:00:57

Quote from: Gary on Apr 04, 2011, 10:59:51
......I just feel happy with IDNet but finance and other factors are pushing more and more, at some point the value I get will no longer be worth the outlay I fear, simply because we have no WBC or FTTC insight and if the smaller ISP's are going to keep getting hit by outages beyond their control then other packages look to be a better option. ........

I think that's the dilemma I will find. Although I feel iDNet are an excellent ISP, the lack of 21CN in this area and, pretty much zero chance of a move to fibre within my lifetime means that at some point I may be forced to consider my options. Given that TT are the only viable LLU supplier on this exchange, that would probably mean a move to someone similar to Xilo who are able to offer something via TT wholesale.

It's one reason I'm sorry that iDNet don't seem to be able to make the numbers stack up to be able to offer something similar. Since decision time is unlikely to be for a while, it might be by that point that circumstances will change and such a service does become viable for them.

From what I understand Xilo will shortly be offering a service over Opal which will allow you to keep your phone line with iDNet.