IPv6 now available?

silverblade · Mar 31, 2011, 20:53:41

I noticed this earlier:
http://www.idnet.net/news/article.jsp?id=84

Quote
Bring on IPv6

Date: 30 March 2011 | Author: IDNet
We provide all customers with a delegated /48 of native IPv6 address space. This gives you 65,536 subnets, each subnet consisting of 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 native IPv6 addresses. That should keep you going for a while!!

It's nice but, how do we actually make use of it?

.Griff. · Mar 31, 2011, 21:51:32

AFAIK Idnet has supported IPv6 for a while but you'll need a router that supports IPv6 and IPv6 DNS servers.

Bill · Mar 31, 2011, 23:46:24

I've been running IPv6 through a 6to4 tunnel (built in to the router) for some while now with no problems.

The router, an Airport Extreme, won't support native IPv6 (though I'm told it used to until Apple "improved" the firmware) so I can't comment on that.

I know than John Hunt (one of the tbb founders) is using native IPv6 with IDNet and a Cisco router, but I'm waiting until something comes along that will require rather less setting up than one of those!

Adam · Apr 01, 2011, 12:36:45

Quote from: Bill on Mar 31, 2011, 23:46:24
The router, an Airport Extreme, won't support native IPv6 (though I'm told it used to until Apple "improved" the firmware) so I can't comment on that.

Native IPv6 does work with the Airport Express/Time Capsule when in bridge mode, the issue is when using PPPoE it fails to hand out addresses to connected clients. I have raised a bug with Apple but they claim it is a feature request and have yet to make any progress on the issue.

Bill · Apr 01, 2011, 13:12:36

There's a (related?) issue with the 6to4 tunnel- if it connects to a host which uses both v6 and v4 it defaults to v4.

It's been suggested to Apple (not by me) that there should be a way whereby the user can choose the behaviour, either globally or by address range. I think it's been acknowledged, but not actioned.

If they don't get a move on I might look for a new router... know anything about the Netgear WNDR3700? Or any other suggestions for a router where IPv6 setup just means checking the "Enable IPv6" box

Ardua · Apr 01, 2011, 14:43:35

I have a Fritz!Box 7390 which supports IPv6. This is an extract from the Help Guide:

The FRITZ!Box is ready to connect to the IPv6 range of the Internet. If you want to use IPv6 connections, set up the FRITZ!Box for the new Internet protocol and make sure that the computers in the FRITZ!Box network are also set up for the IPv6 connection. For modern operating systems no manual configuration is necessary; IPv6 support is configured automatically (for instance in the Windows operating systems Vista and higher).

Thanks to dual stack, the FRITZ!Box supports the use of IPv6 and IPv4 at the same time. This means that all functions of the FRITZ!Box remain available even after setting up IPv6.

A short introduction on the subject of IPv6 is available here: IPv6: Introduction

IPv6 support enabled
Enable this setting to switch on IPv6 support in the FRITZ!Box.

IPv6 Connectivity
The FRITZ!Box differentiates between two basic kinds of IPv6 connections: Native IPv6 and IPv6 with a tunnel protocol.

Native IPv6
Native IPv6 means that your Internet provider supports IPv6 directly on your line. This means that IPv6 connections are possible without using a tunnel protocol.

IPv6 with a tunnel protocol
An IPv4 connection is used to transport IPv6 packets. This is done by packing (tunneling) IPv6 packets into IPv4 packets. Using a tunnel protocol the IPv6 range of the Internet can be reached even if your Internet Service Provider does not support IPv6.
Select your preferred method of using the IPv6 protocol. Before making your selection, find out whether your Internet provider supports IPv6 on your line.
Detect settings automatically (recommended)

In this case first FRITZ!Box attempts to negotiate native IPv6. If this attempt fails, a 6to4 tunnel will be established. In most cases the IPv6 connection succeeds with this selection, regardless of whether or not your Internet provider supports IPv6.

Always use a native IPv6 connection
Select this option if your Internet provider supports IPv6 on your line. If your Internet provider does not support IPv6, then no Internet connections will be established in the IPv6 range.

For a native IPv6 connection the FRITZ!Box needs a global IPv6 address. There are different ways to receive this global address. Select the desired option from the "Connection Settings" area. For more information on the options available, see: Connection Settings.

Always use a tunnel protocol for the IPv6 connection
Select this option if IPv6 is not supported on your line. You can select among various tunnel protocols.
Select a tunnel protocol from the "Connection Settings" area. More information on tunnel protocols is presented here: Connection Settings.

Additional Settings
MTU settings
MTU stands for Maximum Transfer Unit. This value is generally determined automatically. For diagnostic purposes it may make sense to change this value manually.

Also announce DNS server via router advertisement (RFC 5005)
When this setting is enabled, the FRITZ!Box announces the local DNS server to the local network via router advertisement. Network devices can also identify the local DNS server via DHCPv6.

Unique Local Addresses
Unique Local Addresses are IPv6 addresses used exclusively for communication within local networks. Packets whose receiving addresses are from the range of unique local addresses are not routed to the Internet. At present unique local addresses are designated by the prefix "fd".
Assign unique local addresses (ULA) as long as no IPv6 connection exists (recommended)
Do not assign unique local addresses (ULA) (not recommended)
Always assign unique local addresses (ULA)

Set ULA prefix manually
If you want to set the ULA prefix yourself manually, you can enter any prefix you like. The prefix must be entered in hexadecimal format and have the prescribed length of 64 bits.

Bill · Apr 01, 2011, 16:18:29

That looks distinctly promising... A bit more expensive than I was aiming at and I'd prefer an Ethernet WAN port for the BT FTTC modem, but it definitely looks like a range worthy of further investigation, thanks

Simon_idnet · Apr 01, 2011, 16:56:12

Billion sent us one of their 7800Ns this week, runing beta firmware that supports IPv6 - it does that very well (you tick a checkbox, that's all there is to do).

We've tested it on a FTTC line, no problems.

I've just tested it on an ADSL2+ line at the office here. The Netgear 834G that was on that line was connected at 4790kbps. The Billion connected at 6041kbps. That's a 26% improvement and enough to gain an extra 1Mbps in Profile. Quite impressive.

I'm going to try it at home this weekend. My home line usually connects at 20036kbps so it will be interesting to see if the Billion can eek anything more than that!

I've not tested it's wireless range as yet but the specs look good.
Simon

Rik · Apr 01, 2011, 17:06:59

Your new choice of router for customers if it passes the tests, Simon?

Simon_idnet · Apr 01, 2011, 17:15:49

Well, it's a high-end router with a price to match but they say they're developing an entry-level router so that might be interesting too.

Rik · Apr 01, 2011, 17:17:00

I suspect that a few of us would be happy to pay to have a router that's good enough to handle the future.

Bill · Apr 01, 2011, 17:17:20

Quote from: Simon_idnet on Apr 01, 2011, 16:56:12
We've tested it on a FTTC line, no problems.

Damn, I was going to ask if you needed a tester

Thanks Simon, any idea when the beta firmware goes production?

Bill · Apr 01, 2011, 17:23:12

Quote from: Simon_idnet on Apr 01, 2011, 17:15:49
Well, it's a high-end router with a price to match

Only about £120 at Amazon... less than my AEX and a LOT less than the FritzBox... SOHO rather than consumer I'd say.

It's within what I'm prepared to pay.

Lance · Apr 01, 2011, 17:46:50

A second test never does any harm, Bill!

Adam · Apr 01, 2011, 17:48:05

Quote from: Bill on Apr 01, 2011, 17:23:12
Only about £120 at Amazon... less than my AEX and a LOT less than the FritzBox... SOHO rather than consumer I'd say.

It's actually a good price for native IPv6 kit and would buy that myself if I hadn't just purchased a Draytek 120 to work with the Apple Time Capsule. I previously had the Draytek 2820Vn which is much more expensive and has no IPv6 support.

If you have something like the Draytek and Airport Express/Time Capsule then the cheapest option is probably to pick up a Cisco router on eBay for £30-40 and have it sit in between the modem and Airport Express to do the PPPoE stuff. You can then run the AE in bridge mode with working IPv6.

I will be trying the Cisco router method myself shortly as I use the backup functions of the Time Capsule and it is less than 2 months old. If Apple do get around to fixing their firmware then the Cisco router can easily be resold for around what you paid for it as they keep their value fairly well.

Bill · Apr 01, 2011, 18:00:13

Quote from: Adam on Apr 01, 2011, 17:48:05
If you have something like the Draytek and Airport Express/Time Capsule then the cheapest option is probably to pick up a Cisco router on eBay for £30-40 and have it sit in between the modem and Airport Express to do the PPPoE stuff. You can then run the AE in bridge mode with working IPv6.

I'll probably buy the Billion router (if I can get it with the right firmware and Simon doesn't find any gotchas), I've always felt vulnerable since I switched to FTTC 'cos I haven't got a spare router- the old ones are all ADSL.

This looks just the job, and assuming Apple upgrade the AEX firmware before IPv6 runs out of addresses I'll have a full spare that can run both IP versions.

Adam · Apr 01, 2011, 18:27:33

Quote from: Bill on Apr 01, 2011, 18:00:13
I'll probably buy the Billion router (if I can get it with the right firmware and Simon doesn't find any gotchas), I've always felt vulnerable since I switched to FTTC 'cos I haven't got a spare router- the old ones are all ADSL.

That's likely the best choice in the long run. Billion seem to be a quality brand and I've seen a number of their devices running IPv6 (though oddly the firmware is beta in the UK). I have a friend in Australia who swears by Billion modem/routers.

Bill · Apr 01, 2011, 18:40:41

Deleted, see later post.

pctech · Apr 01, 2011, 18:45:35

Seems very interesting, wonder how it'll do on a long ADSL line.

Rik · Apr 01, 2011, 18:49:14

It sounds like it would do well, Mitch.

Adam · Apr 01, 2011, 18:58:43

Quote from: Bill on Apr 01, 2011, 18:40:41
I've been wondering about that... could it be that it's really mature software, but because (afaik) the major broadband carriers in the UK aren't exactly in the forefront of making IPv6 available to their users that they reckon they can keep the keep the support calls down by only supplying it to those who ask?

I expect that is a factor as IPv6 support is in the stable builds in Australia (and potentially other countries). There has been IPv6 support for a lot longer with some suppliers in Aus (Internode being one) so perhaps they are more comfortable with the ISPs knowledge and implementation.

Bill · Apr 01, 2011, 19:01:15

Quote from: Adam on Apr 01, 2011, 18:58:43
I expect that is a factor as IPv6 support is in the stable builds in Australia (and potentially other countries). There has been IPv6 support for a lot longer with some suppliers in Aus (Internode being one) so perhaps they are more comfortable with the ISPs knowledge and implementation.

You replied just before I deleted my post

It was rubbish... found this thread:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/dslrouter/t/3983589-is-the-billion-bipac-7800n-ipv6-ready.html

in a tbb forum I don't look at often, I'll keep a closer eye on it for a while.

Adam · Apr 01, 2011, 19:18:36

Quote from: Bill on Apr 01, 2011, 19:01:15
You replied just before I deleted my post

It was rubbish... found this thread:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/dslrouter/t/3983589-is-the-billion-bipac-7800n-ipv6-ready.html

in a tbb forum I don't look at often, I'll keep a closer eye on it for a while.

Ah, thanks for the link. I wasn't aware it had been released in the UK yet either. The only information I had seen about it was on the Aus Whirlpool forums. It's good to know it's out here and that it's confirmed working with IDNet.

Bill · Apr 01, 2011, 19:26:21

The credit card is feeling a bit groggy at the moment for various reasons, but I think I'll ask it nicely if I can give Billion a call next week

Gary · Apr 02, 2011, 07:44:32

Most routers we have should get IPV6 updates I would imagine unless thsy are very old, Netgear have already said their current line up will all get IPV6 via a software update, that's good enough for me, I need my 5Ghz Spectrum so I'll just wait.

Simon_idnet · Apr 05, 2011, 10:11:28

The Billion 7800N held out just as well as the Netgear on a short line, syncing at just over 20Mbps. The wireless signal is a bit stronger than my Airport Extreme and has slightly better range (it does have three external aerials - compared to the AE which has none).

Apparently Billion have decided that 5Ghz offers inferior performance and so have concentrated on making 2.4Ghz a good as possible.

The IPv6 official firmware should be released soon. If anyone wants the beta firmware just drop a line to: jules at billion.uk.com (quoted by permission)

Simon

Bill · Apr 05, 2011, 10:20:39

Thanks for that Simon

Quote from: Simon_idnet on Apr 05, 2011, 10:11:28
Apparently Billion have decided that 5Ghz offers inferior performance

I'd go along with that, I've not been particularly impressed with 5GHz on the AEX. It's only real advantage for me is that nobody else within range is using it!

Simon_idnet · Apr 05, 2011, 10:42:21

We see a lot of wireless problems in densly-populated areas such as in London and in university towns where being able to jump onto a different frequency band (5Ghz) can get people away from congested 2.4Ghz channels.

Billion say that 5Ghz offers less range, less penetration and slower speeds but that their 2.4Ghz implementation is strong enough to hold it's own in congested areas.
S

psp83 · Apr 05, 2011, 10:47:59

Hi Simon, Whats the control panel like for this router?

Aiming to get one for work and it just won't be me using it.

Gary · Apr 05, 2011, 10:48:33

Quote from: Simon_idnet on Apr 05, 2011, 10:42:21
We see a lot of wireless problems in densly-populated areas such as in London and in university towns where being able to jump onto a different frequency band (5Ghz) can get people away from congested 2.4Ghz channels.

Billion say that 5Ghz offers less range, less penetration and slower speeds but that their 2.4Ghz implementation is strong enough to hold it's own in congested areas.
S

I would not agree with all of that statement, 5ghz is bound to have less penetration as its a higher frequency same as mobile phones 900Mhz vs 1800 Mhz etc, as to slower speeds, I get much faster speeds over 5Ghz than I do over 2.4 Ghz using 802.n. I think your home/office enviroment and placement of router can have a lot to do with that.

Simon_idnet · Apr 05, 2011, 10:57:03

Quote from: psp83 on Apr 05, 2011, 10:47:59
Hi Simon, Whats the control panel like for this router?

Aiming to get one for work and it just won't be me using it.

The control panel is easy - I can't find anything bad about this router.

Rik · Apr 05, 2011, 11:06:00

That's good to hear, Simon.

Bill · Apr 05, 2011, 13:11:48

It's better be, I've just ordered one

I'll get the hang of it using the standard firmware before trying the beta.

Steve · Apr 05, 2011, 13:54:11

I thought one of the bonuses of the 5Ghz bandwidth was to stop N devices been dragged down to the legacy 'g' devices speed. I agree with -ve comments about 5GHz but it's good to have it all to oneself nevertheless.

Bill · Apr 05, 2011, 14:24:58

That's a good point, but (with the exception of the Kindle, which usually has its wireless turned off anyway) everything on my LAN is "n".

Adam · Apr 05, 2011, 14:29:57

Quote from: Steve on Apr 05, 2011, 13:54:11
I thought one of the bonuses of the 5Ghz bandwidth was to stop N devices been dragged down to the legacy 'g' devices speed.

That is also my understanding, I have an Apple Time Capsule which is dual-band and use the 5Ghz range for supported 802.11n devices (including the iPad) and have yet to notice any major problems with range or speed. Legacy devices are sometimes connected to the 2.4Ghz range which negates many of the 802.11n benefits.

The benefits or downsides of the 5Ghz range are going to differ for each individual case; one use case may see clients connecting meters away from the base, one may see them in a city area where 2.4Ghz is crowded, one may be in a large building and they need the range 2.4Ghz offers, etc. The fact is the router lacks 5Ghz so you don't have the choice, and no matter how good they claim their 2.4Ghz is it isn't the same as 5Ghz. For the price of the router it should have 5Ghz or even dual-band.

Steve · Apr 05, 2011, 16:14:09

I guess you could also have the 'old' dual band acting as an additional wireless access point.