Sudden upstream speed problems

Started by JamesAllen, Apr 01, 2011, 16:34:50

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JamesAllen

Hi guys,

Is anyone seeing upstream speed issues at the moment?

Whereas I normally get 100k/sec I'm currently getting <15k/sec. FTP uploads seem to go to 70k/sec then drop to 2k/sec and radio streaming is a total no no.

I know it's not reliable due to traffic priority but I did see some high latency to gw3 on a traceroute.

ADSL Speed test took ages to do the upstream test and ended up reporting it was 0.20mbs instead of the usual 0.97mbs.

Would appreciate any advice on this as I will be streaming a radio show in 1.5hrs. :(

I rebooted my router when this first happened but still got the problem.

Thanks in advance.

Rik

My upstream and downstream speeds are normal, as is my ping (if anything, that's a bit better than normal). There's nothing on the status page to explain it, so I'd have to suspect a local problem, either exchange or your equipment/LAN. What other machines are connected atm?
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

JamesAllen

My ping is perfect as is my downstream, it's just upstream that has dropped suddenly. It's really weird.

All other machines are acting as normal after checking their network activity.

It's bizarre, but yeah must be local though support told me it cant just be upstream so I assume that means my router is screwed.. :(

At least it's confirmed it's just me.. That does help.

Rik

The upload you're pushing out daily is going to tax an asymmetric system. If any other machine on your LAN is trying to download, or someone is trying to download from you, it would account for the speeds you're seeing.
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

JamesAllen

Hi Rik, yes I'm aware of this and I know exactly what my connection is doing. It's been fine since I got it installed but something is definitely wrong right now as with everything off, the upstream is terribly low.

Just weird to suddenly go like this unless my router is faulty.. It's ok at the moment test streaming but still not the correct speed. Will continue investigating though.


Rik

Have you got a spare router you could swap?
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

JamesAllen

I have but unfortunately it's an oldish linksys that when I tested it, it worked but only around 6000 sync and I wasnt able to confirm it would work properly with my ADSL2+ connection.

As a last resort I could try it..

Streaming seems ok now so I'm getting at least 15k/sec but I need to double that to be safe..

Rik

Daft question, but do you have to stream live, ie is the show live, or could you pre-record and upload?
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

JamesAllen

Ah yes it's a live show with listener interaction etc.

It's been perfect for months..

Although I'm test streaming to two servers now without issue.. so that's something.

Rik

I wonder whether having a dedicated line, purely for the radio show, would be a help?
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

JamesAllen

Actually the thought of just having a backup line is good one.. Though been doing this since last July with only a few connection issues along the way.

But not a bad idea for the future.

Rik

Even better if you could get fibre. ;)
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

JamesAllen

Heh yeah, I wish. ;)

Being in the middle of Nottingham you'd think you'd get that stuff first but we're always last.

Adam

Perhaps a silly question... but do you host the radio/streaming server on your local machine/network?
Adam

Rik

Quote from: JamesAllen on Apr 01, 2011, 17:54:54
Being in the middle of Nottingham you'd think you'd get that stuff first but we're always last.

Oh no you're not. ;D
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

JamesAllen

Ah not that stupid. :)

But no I stream to two radio stations on the net, so it's just a 30k/sec upstream link in total to stream to them.

Adam

Quote from: JamesAllen on Apr 01, 2011, 17:59:43
Ah not that stupid. :)

But no I stream to two radio stations on the net, so it's just a 30k/sec upstream link in total to stream to them.

Ah, good. :) Do you know if you have Annex M (increased upload) or if you're using standard ADSL/ADSL2+?
Adam

Lance

I don't think BT offer annex M.
Lance
_____

This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Rik

I'm fairly sure they don't, at least last time I asked.
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Adam

According to the WBC end user charges price list Annex M is an option charged at £7.00 per month (wholesale pricing).
Adam

JamesAllen

Hi Adam,

I'm not on any additional upload package that I know of.

BTW, the problems seem to have cured themselves now. I know the inference seemed to be that it was probably my router but for it to suddenly repair itself seems a little odd - though it could of course still be the issue.

I do now wonder if something at the exchange could have been impacting my upstream though..

JamesAllen

Ah I think I spoke too fast. Back to going really slow again.  ???

May have to just buy another router, though be annoying if that doesn't fix it, but not much more I can do to diagnose this one I don't think..

Technical Ben

Quote from: Rik on Apr 01, 2011, 17:05:40
The upload you're pushing out daily is going to tax an asymmetric system. If any other machine on your LAN is trying to download, or someone is trying to download from you, it would account for the speeds you're seeing.
Hope you find out what it is. My 2 pence is to mention sometimes it can be PC related. A recent Windows update made my pc act weird. So if you can check via a second PC, or other software, it can help eliminate the computer as the problem. Also remember that any downloads (like windows update again  ::)) can slow down uploads.

So basically, windows causes loads of trouble. Though it will probably be something to do with the line. Any line stats?
I use to have a signature, then it all changed to chip and pin.

JamesAllen

Hey there Ben,

Ah I've been doing a lot of tests today. I have lots of computers using the router, but I disconnected all of them and then tested my laptop via wifi. I also just tried with my desktop connected and the problem occurs each time.
Testing an FTP connection it will start fast, but then drop to something like 4k/sec. then up to 16k/sec then back down again. All over the place. Speed tests show upstream doesn't go past about 0.40mbs but is usually between 0.23 and 0.40mbs or so. It seems very unstable.

Here are my full line stats. I can't see anything that jumps out at me and the sync is all as expected:

/usr/sbin/adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason:   8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 1160 Kbps, Downstream rate = 13675 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode:         ADSL2+
Channel:      Fast
Trellis:      U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:      No Defect
Training Status:   Showtime
      Down      Up
SNR (dB):   6.9      5.9
Attn(dB):   25.0      11.2
Pwr(dBm):   0.0      12.9
Max(Kbps):   16708      1164
Rate (Kbps):   13675      1160
         G.dmt framing
K:      214(0)      166
R:      16      0
S:      1      1
D:      64      1
         ADSL2 framing
MSGc:      59      10
B:      213      165
M:      1      1
T:      2      1
R:      16      0
S:      0.4995      4.5479
L:      3683      292
D:      64      1
         Counters
SF:      127993      115399
SFErr(CRCErr):   0      0
RS:      16639212      0
RSCorr:      569457      0
RSUnCorr:   0      0

HEC:      0      0
OCD:      0      0
LCD:      0      0
Total Cells:   67014710      1591852
Data Cells:   1709072      61213
Drop Cells:   776
Bit Errors:   0      0

ES:      164      0
SES:      1      0
UAS:      79      0
AS(Uptime):   2079

INP:      1.11      0.00
PER:      16.23      18.19
delay:      7.99      1.13
OR:      32.02      7.03

Bitswap:   86      1
Total uptime:   164917

Total time = 1 days 21 hours 50 min 36 sec
SF  = 10172432
CRC = 700
LOS = 1
LOF = 9
ES  = 164
Latest 1 day time = 21 hours 50 min 36 sec
SF  = 4847080
CRC = 550
LOS = 1
LOF = 9
ES  = 73
Latest 15 minutes time = 5 min 36 sec
SF  = 20694
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55472
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
SF  = 5325352
CRC = 150
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 91
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 52136
CRC = 308
LOS = 0
LOF = 6
ES  = 0
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55498
CRC = 144
LOS = 1
LOF = 3
ES  = 2
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55559
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 0
Showtime Drop Reason:   8000
Last Retrain Reason:   8000

Rik

QuotePwr(dBm):   0.0      12.9

That power figure looks odd to me, James.
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

JamesAllen

Quote from: Rik on Apr 03, 2011, 16:21:54
That power figure looks odd to me, James.

Aha, thanks for that Rik. Any idea what can cause this or what it should normally look like?

Rik

No idea what might cause it, but mine is currently 18.9db. Router output power varies along with other stats, but a 0 output seems unusual to me.

There will now be a queue of people telling me I'm absolutely wrong. ;)
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

JamesAllen

Quote from: Rik on Apr 03, 2011, 16:41:55
No idea what might cause it, but mine is currently 18.9db. Router output power varies along with other stats, but a 0 output seems unusual to me.

There will now be a queue of people telling me I'm absolutely wrong. ;)

;D It's a great spot. Be interesting if it is a factor here.

I'm starting to look at new routers now. May go for the Netgear 2200 that quite a few people seem to recommend.

Rik

The new Billion that IDNet are testing looks worth a check.
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

JamesAllen

Quote from: Rik on Apr 03, 2011, 16:47:24
The new Billion that IDNet are testing looks worth a check.

Ah excellent. What model is that? We had a Billion at the company I used to work for and while it was no frills it seemed very stable.

Glenn

Quote from: Rik on Apr 03, 2011, 16:47:24
The new Billion that IDNet are testing looks worth a check.

Isn't that just a router, for use on a cable or FTTC connection?
Glenn
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Rik

Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Steve

No it's a modem/router 7800N with a wan ethernet input.
Steve
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Rik

Quote from: Glenn on Apr 03, 2011, 16:50:07
Isn't that just a router, for use on a cable or FTTC connection?

Simon had tested on ADSL2+ & FTTC.
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

JamesAllen

Quote from: Rik on Apr 03, 2011, 16:51:30
Take a look at Simon's thoughts here:

http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,25325.msg602369.html#msg602369

James.

Excellent, thanks for that Rik.

A little expensive compared to the 2200, but the future proofing and feature set does justify it.

I'm really at that point where I just want to get a really stable router that gets the most out of my connection.. Will look more into the Billion.

Glenn

Glenn
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

JamesAllen

Even cheaper at Expansys: £113 with free delivery.

http://www.expansys.com/billion-bipac-7800n-802-11n-adsl2broadband-router-uk-182959/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=base&ito=1701

Never thought of spending this much on a router before but gotta say I am damn tempted. Had enough of cheaper models which invariably have problems or limitations.
This looks like it has everything I need.

Thanks again for the info.

Rik

Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

pctech

Quote from: JamesAllen on Apr 03, 2011, 17:00:17
Even cheaper at Expansys: £113 with free delivery.

http://www.expansys.com/billion-bipac-7800n-802-11n-adsl2broadband-router-uk-182959/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=base&ito=1701

Never thought of spending this much on a router before but gotta say I am damn tempted. Had enough of cheaper models which invariably have problems or limitations.
This looks like it has everything I need.

Thanks again for the info.

Not sure about anything else but a mobile I bought from them appeared to be grey market as the seals were broken and it looked like it had been repacked, I rang up to enquire and was told it had been unlocked, I returned it as was concerned I could be on shaky ground if I had any reason to call on the warranty.

Personally I'd not buy from them.


Rik

Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Adam

Quote from: Rik on Apr 03, 2011, 16:47:24
The new Billion that IDNet are testing looks worth a check.

By the looks of it the 7800N only supports 2.4Ghz 802.11n which is a shame. I would expect 5Ghz support in that price range and perhaps even dual-band support (2.4Ghz and 5Ghz).
Adam

pctech

Maybe the emphasis is on range Adam.


JamesAllen

Quote from: pctech on Apr 03, 2011, 17:37:10
Not sure about anything else but a mobile I bought from them appeared to be grey market as the seals were broken and it looked like it had been repacked, I rang up to enquire and was told it had been unlocked, I returned it as was concerned I could be on shaky ground if I had any reason to call on the warranty.

Personally I'd not buy from them.



They have been around for a long time though and have a pretty decent rep. Hopefully that was an exception but know what you mean. I recently bought a bluetooth Microsoft keyboard from them which arrived quicker than stated and was exactly as expected.

Technical Ben

If the speed if fluctuating, does that suggest problems your end or congestion? As AFAIK the exchange is not likely to change your sync speeds that quickly.
:dunno:
I use to have a signature, then it all changed to chip and pin.

JamesAllen

Quote from: Technical Ben on Apr 03, 2011, 22:12:43
If the speed if fluctuating, does that suggest problems your end or congestion? As AFAIK the exchange is not likely to change your sync speeds that quickly.
:dunno:

Well the sync speed isn't changing - it has remained at the correct level but upload speed seems to drop but then sometimes it's ok. If it was congestion would this not also affect downstream? Downloads have not been affected at all - only uploads.
It's really strange. I've ruled out traffic on my network by only connecting one machine to the router at a time.
I can only summise that it's my router which is failing, especially if it's not really possible for upstream to be reduced at the exchange but not downstream..

JamesAllen

Hi guys,

I had this exact same problem last night. Totally gutting as I had to cancel my weekly radio show.

It was fine 1 hour before, then 30 mins before I did a speed test and either it failed to finish or showed the speeds had fallen to really low levels - 0.06mbs - 0.24mbs (normal is 0.91mbs or so). Wasn't reliable or stable at all.

However, this time I setup an old router and the problem did NOT go away.

I really need to get this resolved now as I can't afford to lose upload speed again when I have a show.
My upstream speeds are back to normal this morning which is all the more bizarre.

Anyone have any idea what could be causing this. I tested with only one machine connected etc to rule out local bandwidth usage issues and the problem still occured. I also disabled wifi and tested.

I was told by IDNet support that it's almost impossible that my upstream speed could change if my downstream was fine but that is exactly what I see when this happens. Noise margin is perfect, sync rates are normal but suddenly all upstream bandwidth goes right down.

From my tests though it points at something external. Could exchange congestion really only affect upstream and kill it to level I have experienced?

I hate the idea of having to move ISP but if this can't be identified and fixed then I'm not sure I'll have any choice. :(

Steve

Steve
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

JamesAllen

Quote from: Steve on Apr 16, 2011, 10:16:01
There were other issues last night so may be related  :dunno:

http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,25464.msg606025.html#msg606025

Hi Steve,

I think that's a difference issue to mine as when it's occured it's only upstream that is affected. Downstream and web browsing works perfectly. It's as if my upstream is suddenly being massively throttled but not consistently. Sometimes the speed test would fail completely when it got to the upload part or end up reporting a very low figure.

Very worrying as it's fine now so I need to identify the root cause. :(