Frequent disconnects

Lance · May 17, 2007, 12:29:45

I've got the one LAN port version of your linksys router (badged and sold in Tesco as the HG200) which is identical except the number of ports. Therefore, I can tell you that the router does not support a telnet connection to it and therefore the DMT tool won't work.

Sorry I didn't pick up on this earlier!!

ReDGryphoN · May 17, 2007, 12:40:44

Hi,

ONLY the Linksys WAG54GS is compatible and no others. Lance is correct if you do not support telenet then you can not use this tool.

This is a useful forum for DMT and software in general

http://www.dslzoneuk.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=23

ReD

JSAWBSAW

Slyder · May 17, 2007, 15:31:44

Okay, looks like that won't work then @__@ You mentioned that my downstream margin is pretty low, would calling CS and asking to raise it help in anyway?

Rik · May 17, 2007, 15:47:04

You posted a d/s margin of 7db. That suggests that you might already have the target margin set to 9db. You could certainly ask support to increase it further, but you will lose some speed. Personally, I prefer stability to speed, so had mine raised to 9db, since when I have had few problems.

Slyder · May 17, 2007, 15:50:55

Just had another disconnect at 3:45, looking for any patterns, my stats dropped to

Downstream Rate:      1152 Kbps
Upstream Rate:     448 Kbps
Downstream Margin:     7 db
Upstream Margin:     12 db

I'll definetly ring customer support, and ask them to raise the db. As you say, stability seems more important than speed to me!

ReDGryphoN · May 17, 2007, 15:51:55

Hi,

Std setting for downstream noise margin (Called target SNR) for interelave is 6dB IOW if you get a figure at or lower than this you would/could experience a disconnect as BT see it as a fault on your line, they will then alter your speed downwards to see if the situation improves and by doing that this actually raises your downstream noise margin, in theory meaning you will have less chance of dropping to the target SNR level again.

As you are at 7dB I feel this could be happening to you, on your router you should be able to see the number of disconnects ?

As stated before, check your router stats again plugged into your normal port not the master socket and post them here if you can.

A very useful site for explaining (better than I!!) all about this stuff is found at:-

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/maxdsl2.htm

Well worth a read.

For your information I am on a long line and needed to squeeze the max out of my set up so have fitted an ADSL master socket filter, place the router next to the master socket and run Cat5e cabling to my computer (Old house so wireless through granite is a no no), also removed the ring wire from all extensions and master socket.

ReD

JSAWBSAW

Rik · May 17, 2007, 15:55:30

Quote from: Slyder on May 17, 2007, 15:50:55
Downstream Rate:      1152 Kbps
Upstream Rate:     448 Kbps
Downstream Margin:     7 db
Upstream Margin:     12 db

There's something going badly wrong, your previous figures were:

DSL Status: Up
DSL Modulation Mode: GDMT
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED
Downstream Rate: 5856 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 448 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 7 db
Upstream Margin: 18 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 26
Upstream Line Attenuation: 16
Downstream Transmit Power: 0
Upstream Transmit Power: 0

Your new sync speed is 1Mbps. If you've checked your own wiring, it's time to get support involved to test the line.

Lance · May 17, 2007, 15:56:52

Quote from: ReDGryphoN on May 17, 2007, 15:51:55
Std setting for downstream noise margin (Called target SNR) for interelave is 6dB IOW if you get a figure at or lower than this you would/could experience a disconnect as BT see it as a fault on your line,

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you here, Red. You would not normally expect to get a disconnect until your noise margin is less than or equal to 0, and indeed some lines/routers can hold as low as -4 (Rik's is a good example of this I believe).

With the linksys router, the logging is hopeless. The only way to monitor and log disconnects is to use routerstats.

ReDGryphoN · May 17, 2007, 16:00:59

I agree,

You have probably resyched way too many times and now have had your profile cut to a poor one. However what is really concerning is your own downstream margin has not gone up at all, this should have shot up with such a low downstream rate.

What is your SSnoise marging doing between disconnects stable and then drop very low or a gradual drop to a low figure ?

There is a free ADSL stats software package (I will find the link when back home) that will record and graph what is happening to your noise margin. Will post later

ReD

MAABOF

Slyder · May 17, 2007, 16:02:51

Quote from: Rik on May 17, 2007, 15:55:30
There's something going badly wrong, your previous figures were:

DSL Status: Up
DSL Modulation Mode: GDMT
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED
Downstream Rate: 5856 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 448 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 7 db
Upstream Margin: 18 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 26
Upstream Line Attenuation: 16
Downstream Transmit Power: 0
Upstream Transmit Power: 0

Your new sync speed is 1Mbps. If you've checked your own wiring, it's time to get support involved to test the line.

Just phoned customer support. They said that on their logs, my internet has been up and running for a good while, and it shows no disconnections. o_o;

Could it be something wrong with the area i'm in? My phone just dropped dead and there's no dialtone on it at all..

The wiring is something that's still bugging me, in your thread on noise margin, it shows pictures of wires connected to the faceplate if you open it up. I opened up mine and there's no wires attached the the faceplace, would this be an issue?

ReDGryphoN · May 17, 2007, 16:03:07

Lance,

I did say would/could, my router can hold on to 1db too but my old Netgear fell over at 5dB probably due to my long line.

I will shut up !

Slyder,

No wires to the faceplate means normally no extensions..................

ReD

MAABOF

Lance · May 17, 2007, 16:03:29

Quote from: ReDGryphoN on May 17, 2007, 16:00:59
There is a free ADSL stats software package (I will find the link when back home) that will record and graph what is happening to your noise margin. Will post later

ReD

MAABOF

Sounds like routerstats.

Lance

Lance · May 17, 2007, 16:04:16

Quote from: ReDGryphoN on May 17, 2007, 16:03:07

I will shut up !

lol

Slyder · May 17, 2007, 16:06:32

Quote from: ReDGryphoN on May 17, 2007, 16:00:59
I agree,

You have probably resyched way too many times and now have had your profile cut to a poor one. However what is really concerning is your own downstream margin has not gone up at all, this should have shot up with such a low downstream rate.

What is your SSnoise marging doing between disconnects stable and then drop very low or a gradual drop to a low figure ?

There is a free ADSL stats software package (I will find the link when back home) that will record and graph what is happening to your noise margin. Will post later

ReD

MAABOF

I get a straight drop down to the 1000's after a disconnection x_x
I've tried routerstats (If that's what it is, thanks Lance), but it doesn't appear to work, or everything's fine. If i can remember, the graph stays constant on the 7db line, occasionaly dropping to around 6db for a short while then back up.

DorsetBoy · May 17, 2007, 16:29:17

Just re-read all of this.............. with interleaved path the SNR should be higher,you keep losing synch and the profile seems to drop yet IDNET see no disconnects.

Borrow/beg/steal another router and try from scratch,sounds to me like one very duff router.

Slyder · May 17, 2007, 16:47:29

New stats after yet another loss of connection

   DSL Status:      Up
             DSL Modulation Mode:     GDMT
             DSL Path Mode:     INTERLEAVED
             Downstream Rate:     5824 Kbps
             Upstream Rate:     448 Kbps
             Downstream Margin:     6 db
             Upstream Margin:     18 db
             Downstream Line Attenuation:     26
             Upstream Line Attenuation:     16
             Downstream Transmit Power:     0
             Upstream Transmit Power:     0

Lemme go find someone to steal a router from

ReDGryphoN · May 17, 2007, 16:55:43

routerstats does not work for all router, great for Netgears.

Also try ADSL monitor but you may have problems due to lack of telnet.

http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/adslm/adslm.php

I would get a Speedtouch 585 v6 for £24 delivered from Dsldepot, (not new but refurbished)
You could get the full benefits of DMT then too

If my Belkin 7633 was not so reliable I would get one too, I have helped friends get on broadband and the Speedtouch has not let me down yet

ReD

MAABOF

Slyder · May 17, 2007, 17:06:10

Ah, looks like routerstats works now, here's the current graph (Still running)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/TouchFace/untitled1-2.jpg

Rik · May 17, 2007, 18:13:55

The 0 spike may not indicate anything bad, sometimes Routerstats can't access the router and records a 0. However, you sync speed changing as it has without any shift in noise margin says there is something badly wrong with your connection.

As ReD says, if there are no wires attached to the faceplate, it would normally indicate that there are no extensions. OTOH, if you do have extensions, it would suggest that the socket is not your master.

I'm puzzled that you appear to be dropping the connection, yet support can't see it. That could certainly indicate that the issue is your router - it would be worth trying another router before you do much more, as that is cheaper than paying BT if it's a wiring issue.

For the moment, I can't think of any other advice, I think you need to eliminate one of the variables (ie the router) before we can make practical suggestions. If you have a USB modem, you could try that rather than buy another router.

Slyder · May 17, 2007, 18:50:15

As you said, i think it might be a problem with the router itself.
I've put a more updated routerstats up :

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/TouchFace/untitled2.jpg

The 0 spike happens every time i disconnect.
Also, the db switches now between 6-7db, if that changes anything.

First thing's first, i'll get round to using my usb modem, then consider a new router if that stops the disconnections.

Rik · May 17, 2007, 18:53:20

Hi Slyder

What do you mean by "every time I disconnect". Disconnect what from where?

Certainly, your figures seem to be wildly variable. Let's eliminate the router. If you still get problems with a frog, then it's time to tear your wiring apart!

Do you have any extensions? Have you tried a different filter?

Slyder · May 17, 2007, 19:15:42

Hi Rik!

Well when i mean disconnect, i mean losing my connection very randomly. The adsl and internet light on the routers go out, (adsl first, then the internet light, JUST like when my dad pulls the internet plug directly out of the extension x_x)

Let me try and map out everything in the house @__@

--------------------------------------------------------
Key:
=== Being the ethernet cables
-_-_- Being the adsl line (Wow, looks pretty weird o-o;)
()()()() Being the phone line (Running out of ideas >_<)
""""""" Is the extensions wiring

Pc 1 Router Pc 2 Pc 3
====[Connected]================
-_-
-_-
-_-
-_- (Goes up stairs)
-_-
-_-()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()-*____*[Banana phone]
[Filter]
[Connected to extension box]
""
""
""
""
""
[ ] (Phone socket)
[ [ ] ]

--------------------------------------------------------

Sorry if that wasn't very clear, but the reason behind all the complex extensions is simply because, the pc's are situated pretty far away from the actual socket itself..

And yes, i have tried a different filter, but i'll swap some more around later on

Slyder · May 17, 2007, 21:32:28

Now that i've got my usb modem up, is there something that i can run to monitor my internet?
Something like routerstats, but for modems perhaps? o_o;
I'm leaving my pc on overnight, and hoping to see if i get any disconnections like before..

Rik · May 18, 2007, 07:55:46

OK. Houston, I think we have a problem...

As I read your diagram, you have a single master socket, to which is connected a filter. To that, you have a phone connected and the router, the latter via a long ADSL cable? Is that correct? What does the extension box do, just provide a junction? Have you checked for split pairs and bell wires?

The rule of thumb is short ADSL, long ethernet. How long is the cable between the filter and the router? Possibly, you would do better to fit a filtered faceplate and then run the ADSL cable using Cat5, which is more noise resilient.

Thanks for clarifying the disconnect issue, I thought you meant you were unplugging something.

I don't know of anything which will monitor a USB modem, but check whether Dr Speedtouch has an option - it's been a long time since I've used that.

Slyder · May 18, 2007, 08:42:31

Okay so i ran my game overnight, and i experienced no disconnects (I normally would)
Just a faulty router then? I'll try a few more tests when i get back from school..Citizenship exam, urgh. x_x
And i'll try to answer your questions then, almost late already