Traffic shaping

[Niall]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13134494

I smell Talk Talk, etc involved in the pro traffic shaping argument here If you're not vastly over subscribed then you wouldn't need it, aside from the odd piss taking user.

[pctech]

Overloading an ISP's network by an individual or group of individuals consistently after a couple of warnings should be viewed as network abuse and they should be booted, simples. 

Seriously though a colleague was booted from three ISPs for overdoing it with the P2P and loading his connection 24/7.

On the flipside there needs to be pressure on those creating the applications to reduce bandwidth use by using compression and other methods.

[sparkler]

getting booted because you overloaded an isp's network is bad as isp's considers people actually trying to use there internet connection they paid for as overloaders

[Simon]

Well, some people do abuse the networks, like sending out thousands of spam emails in one go. 

[Niall]

Using your quota will never get you booted from your ISP. If you're with a company that has no quota, they generally use traffic shaping and have a fair use policy. Basically if you're downloading terabytes a day for the duration, then you're clearly taking the mick.

For example, this month I've installed a lot of updates and downloaded 3 or 4 games through steam. Only 2 days ago a 'patch' came out for one that was 1.9gb, which still leaves me well short of my onpeak cap, and as for my offpeak, that's hardly touched at all.

[sparkler]

talktalk's website the lasttime i looked said unlimited so people should be able to have unlimited internet otherwise they would of paid for the cheaper one

[Steve]

I think you'll find excessive usage is covered by their 'fair usage policy'


http://www.talktalk.co.uk/legal/fup.html

Excerpt "If Customers usage is continually either excessive, unfair, inappropriate, affects other users enjoyment of our broadband Service, or is not consistent with the usage we would typically expect on the Customers current package, we reserve the right to upgrade customers to a package more suited for their usage or, in extreme cases, suspend or terminate their ability to access Talk Talk broadband."


So it is unlimited except in extreme cases however they are defined?

[sparkler]

looks like misleading advertisement to me i think ill setup a broadband company advertise thats is 100% free then put in the small print thats the offer only applies for peopel who use less then 1mb

[pctech]

I think you'll find excessive usage is covered by their 'fair usage policy'


http://www.talktalk.co.uk/legal/fup.html

Excerpt "If Customers usage is continually either excessive, unfair, inappropriate, affects other users enjoyment of our broadband Service, or is not consistent with the usage we would typically expect on the Customers current package, we reserve the right to upgrade customers to a package more suited for their usage or, in extreme cases, suspend or terminate their ability to access Talk Talk broadband."


So it is unlimited except in extreme cases however they are defined?

If for example someone was running a P2P node and had lots of inbound connections which started to overload the upstream network bandwidth then that is lilkely to be viewed as excessive.

Your average website does not use much bandwidth but video streaming and P2P do.

[Gary]

getting booted because you overloaded an isp's network is bad as isp's considers people actually trying to use there internet connection they paid for as overloaders

Huh? Getting booted because you overloaded an isp's network is bad, that bit is  spot on, because they are being greedy and hogging bandwidth from others, so how does that equate to these people using the connection they paid for? Most networks have a fair use policy (always read the small print), you blow the rules and download huge amounts of data regularly you are not being a normal customer, you are being a pain in the ass and deserve to be booted as I see it. A lot of the all you can eat networks have a pretty large fair use policy, if you hit that you deserve what you get, and that's no connection.

[pctech]

Cacpacity casn only be expanded so much before it becomes not viable for the business as in addition to the costs for transit bandwidth from a company like Cogent an ISP has to often use leased ethernet connections from another supplier to link its equipment that may be in different parts of the country (servers in Nottingham and ADSL access routers/transit routers in London for example)

[Technical Ben]

Overloading an ISP's network by an individual or group of individuals consistently after a couple of warnings should be viewed as network abuse and they should be booted, simples. 

Seriously though a colleague was booted from three ISPs for overdoing it with the P2P and loading his connection 24/7.

On the flipside there needs to be pressure on those creating the applications to reduce bandwidth use by using compression and other methods.

Data cannot be compressed. You can loose data. But not compress it.
Ever tried zipping a DVD file/image/ISO? You'll probably end up with a file larger than the original. 

[pctech]

Compression, at its most basic level works by removing duplicate bit patterns and placing a pointer instead to a similar pattern but can only work well when there lots of duplicate bit patterns.

Images and video do not compress well because they lack duplicate bit patterns so the only way you can reduce the size of these is, as you say, reducing quality or size.

[Technical Ben]

That is what I meant. We are already compressing 99.9% of things up to 99.9% of the possibly amount. (at a guess )
We cannot squeeze more out. So it's got to go through the pipes. This is why I totally hate the term "cloud" that is being pushed down people.
So you want to cap/charge me on bandwidth, then take out a remote service? Riiiiiiight. 

[pctech]

Cloud computing is just a buzz phrase.


Its just a server located somewhere else and we've had it ever since ARPANet was switched on.

[mrapoc]

Exactly, cloud computing is the biggest buzz word in recent time. I never did understand it as well...i already did understand it but the whole cloud word really confused me

[pctech]

It is just marketing.

Hoisting proviuders such as IDNet have been selling cloud services for years.

[Technical Ben]

Cloud computing is just a buzz phrase.


Its just a server located somewhere else and we've had it ever since ARPANet was switched on.

Yes, my point was it's being pushed through, at the same time charging for data is. Coincidence?

PS

It is just marketing.

Hoisting proviuders such as IDNet have been selling server and remote services for years.

Fixed it.

[pctech]

Yes yes.

[Lance]

I guess the use of the term is growing as businesses look for SaaS which is now becoming possible thanks to better and faster internet connections.