Extremely slow broadband connection

[Rik]

Thanks for the explanation Rik. Given all the items in your list are all normal household gizmos, I am amazed that any of us ever gets a proper working connection at any time of the day or night.

So am I, as I mentioned earlier, we are trying to use a Victorian technology to deliver a broadband service. The system was not designed for the job and it is quite amazing that it works as well as it does. To add a little perspective, I live in the centre of Milton Keynes. Because it was cabled with aluminium when the infrastructure was laid, I get a 2M (ADSL) or 3.5M(ADSL2+) speed, despite being in a fast growing conurbation. However, don't feel sorry for me, because my immediate neighbours get speeds of 512k-2M. We're all connected to the same exchange, of course, but I was an early adopter and had a friendly engineer who found me the best pairs he could. Those who followed got what was left - that's how crude the technology is I'm afraid. Until we move to fibre, preferably to the premises, we will always be subject to the whims of rain, wind, corrosion, poor maintenance and BT routes which can take very different paths from house to exchange.

[T_M_D]

Depends what else you have on near to it at certain hours, or if its in a extension or surge suppressor what else is plugged into it that may go on at different hours, it could be that you turn a light on and your cabling is picking up interference, what kind of cabling are you using from the BT socket to your router, is it shielded, is it near other electrical cables which can cause interference.  With respect you spent last bank holiday asking for help and being unhappy with IDNet, now they give you an option to cross an issue off the list, whether its showing up now or not makes no difference, it means you would have peace of mind knowing its not at your end. Now you seem to be not wanting that help, that's like having a strange noise in your car, and then it goes away, so you think all is fine, well sometimes the calm is before the storm so getting things checked out before more problems may occur is always sensible, after all you will only be upset if you line goes down again, but this time you will need to do those tests before you can go forward and that would just slow down getting things fixed in the long term. Anyway have  a good bankholiday and hope your line behaves itself.

I have one socket, nothing else near it or in my house that is new that I have not had running for years.
The cable I have from my bt socket to my router is a standard modern grey router cable.

Yes, of course I will be upset if my line goes down again and if it does do so again over this next weekend with the same symptoms, my views will not have changed other than to strengthen my view that last week was down to BT working on a piece of equipment or them doing some maintenance work around here, and indeed, if it does go down again, the first thing I will do is drive around looking for their Open Reach vans in the area. I would visit the exchange as well, if I knew where it was housed!

Like I keep saying, I will do all the tests requested if this problem arises again this weekend, including walking around with a radio, and yes, yours and others' opinions might be that I should have done that before, but I made that choice and I am happy with that choice and I have explained my reasons for that choice. I would appreciate it if people would stop haranguing me about it now. You have all made your positions on that matter crystal clear.

I will tear myself away from this forum soon and get on with my stuff!

[T_M_D]

Just a suggestion, Tina, but if 24/7 support is a main criteria for you, then perhaps it might be worth looking at somewhere like PlusNet, who seem to offer a comparable phone / broadband package?  I think they are owned by BT, though.  

http://www.plus.net/packages/

Do you know if any of your neighbours has issues last weekend?

Now then Simon, you wouldn't be trying to get rid of me would you 

I am not about to rush off and change provider just yet. If I do so, it will be after a careful weighing up. I would not move to any supplier that has a call centre abroad, no offence to the people in them. Also, I will visit their customer forums first and monitor it for a week  or so - which incidentally, is what I did before deciding to join IDNet.

[T_M_D]

Reading this and other forums and BB-related websites, one of the main issues that users cannot get their minds around is the randomness of ADSL faults. If my phone rings and the internet disconnects then I have a clear cause and effect. Similarly, if my internet dies at 6.30am and again at 4.30pm then my brain would logically suggest that I check my CH pump for RFI. What Tina and I have been experiencing is random issues where there is no logical explanation for what is happening. AAISP, et al, advertise the fact that they monitor their customers' lines with sophisticated tools that PING, if that is the right term, every minute or so. Many IDNet users use the TBB Broadband Checker and RouterStats. My question to those who might know is 'what tools does IDNet have at its disposal to monitor the performance of its customers' lines'?  Surely, rather than saying 'it was a router-initiated disconnect at your end' they should be able to add what I think is missing at the moment; ie, there was a build up in noise leading to a drop in SNR probably because of ........'

Having flown many types of aircraft over the last 40 years with simple but extremely effective flight data collection and playback, I cannot believe that there isn't sophisticated monitoring equipment out there to watch over what is happening on two pieces of twisted wire. What has AAISP got that IDNet hasn't?

I also have what seems to be the over-simplistic view as well, that when a problem arises, tests and monitoring could be done during the time the problem is happening to detect such things as noise interference, router issues, etc... It seems like it should be so much simpler than what it is doesn't it, but from what everyone is telling us, it obviosly isn't.

[T_M_D]

Do you know if any of your neighbours has issues last weekend?

Unfortunately, the ones who have broadband were away 

[T_M_D]

So am I, as I mentioned earlier, we are trying to use a Victorian technology to deliver a broadband service. The system was not designed for the job and it is quite amazing that it works as well as it does. To add a little perspective, I live in the centre of Milton Keynes. Because it was cabled with aluminium when the infrastructure was laid, I get a 2M (ADSL) or 3.5M(ADSL2+) speed, despite being in a fast growing conurbation. However, don't feel sorry for me, because my immediate neighbours get speeds of 512k-2M. We're all connected to the same exchange, of course, but I was an early adopter and had a friendly engineer who found me the best pairs he could. Those who followed got what was left - that's how crude the technology is I'm afraid. Until we move to fibre, preferably to the premises, we will always be subject to the whims of rain, wind, corrosion, poor maintenance and BT routes which can take very different paths from house to exchange.

Yes, I accept the speed limitations here as well as I know I am lucky to enjoy under normal conditions between 4-6 meg.

I am jealous of what my son gets with Virgin Media though and I have said I am moving in with him. Good OOH support, good equimpment, good fault-finding and free router replacement, free engineer visits, often free upgrades, good and consistent speeds and connection - what more could anyone ask for. If I could find that nirvana with a non-cable supplier, I would obviously avail myself of it.

My son has also recently been informed by Virgin Media that he can move up to 30mbps if he moves to their DOCSIS 3.0 Infrastructure and totally new equipment. The cost to him for doing all that? A paltry £30. Now that is what I call a fantastic offer.

Pit that against the offer of a free test kit that has to be returned at cost to me after 7 days.

Ooops, here I go again inviting a raft of indignant responses for my unfair digs at IDNet....

[cavillas]

T_M_D  If you try the radio interference method just run the radio along the adsl and telephone lines as that is where you will be picking up any interference.  I had an intermittant fault and after trying the radio method along my adsl line found it was a faulty dec telephone with spurious signals, my firend had a similar problem and found it was in his neighbours house in the wall right next to his adsl line ( and old tv caused the interference.  Good luck in your endevours ( by the way PlusNet isn't that bad these days) 

[pctech]

If you do move to Plusnet use their pro package as the others get very slow at peak times due to traffic management.

[wecpcs]

We should ignore power supplies in computers, monitors or even routers themselves either.

I think you meant to say We should not ignore power supplies in computers, monitors or even routers themselves either.

Colin

[Rik]

And you would be right.

[Ardua]

At this point, I do need to come to IDNet's defence. They kindly did send me a test router which arrived within a day. It had firmware problems that I possibly could have solved with a firmware update; however, I didn't want to register a device that I didn't own. The test router, a Netgear 1000, replaced a 3300 that I returned as when it disconnected - which it did frequently - it didn't show any failures and it didn't reconnect of it's own accord. My new router has inbuilt DECT to rule one of IDNet's concerns - it is not a Netgear. My current router has now been up for 2 days: SNR and errors have fallen and speeds have increased by 3 Mbps in a week. What have I done - nothing. There clearly has been a change in the condition of my line but I have no idea what or whether it will deteriorate again.

PS I did all the RFI checks and the biggest source of interference was the LCD clock on my cooker. The radio had to be held about 3inches away to hear it.

[Gary]

At this point, I do need to come to IDNet's defence. They kindly did send me a test router which arrived within a day. It had firmware problems that I possibly could have solved with a firmware update; however, I didn't want to register a device that I didn't own. The test router, a Netgear 1000, replaced a 3300 that I returned as when it disconnected - which it did frequently - it didn't show any failures and it didn't reconnect of it's own accord. My new router has inbuilt DECT to rule one of IDNet's concerns - it is not a Netgear. My current router has now been up for 2 days: SNR and errors have fallen and speeds have increased by 3 Mbps in a week. What have I done - nothing. There clearly has been a change in the condition of my line but I have no idea what or whether it will deteriorate again.

PS I did all the RFI checks and the biggest source of interference was the LCD clock on my cooker. The radio had to be held about 3inches away to hear it.

You dont have to register a device to get Netgear firmware, there is an option  that lets you skip that and download the firmware straight away...best not to update their router anyway though I think.

[Ardua]

You dont have to register a device to get Netgear firmware, there is an option  that lets you skip that and download the firmware straight away...best not to update their router anyway though I think.

Thanks - I wasn't aware that. 

[Ardua]

Is this a Eureka moment?  I have just had a chat with a guy in Belgium about my router and my current stats and his response was along the following lines:

- your downstream LA of 15db reveals that your distance to the DSLAM is about 1100 meters.
- max. downstream rate on ADSL2+ at this distance should be about 22 mbps

- your sync problems are due to the borderline UPSTREAM SNR (7)

Only remedy is to lower the UPSTREAM troughput, which will lead to a higher UPSTREAM SNR

This can be done in different ways:

- or you get your ISP to set a cap on your upstream troughput (e.g to 800-900 kbps)
- or you get your ISP to give you Annex M in stead of Annex A (this gives you more upstream margin).

Make sure your cabling is correct. Ideally your modem is connected to the first socket in your home, with a central splitter from where all additional wiring starts.
You should absolutely avoid any stubs (unused wires) connected to your DSL line before the splitter.

IDNet Support may disagree but is this not the conversation that they should have been having with me over the past month or so?

[Technical Ben]

IDNet might be able to regrade you to ASDL profiles, on ASDL2+. It sometimes helps. however, I am not sure that they can limit the upload speed. As it's a BT owned exchange/equipment. They might be able to adjust it, but the "automatic" manager will kick in when ever something changes or updates. 

[Rik]

This can be done in different ways:

- or you get your ISP to set a cap on your upstream troughput (e.g to 800-900 kbps)
- or you get your ISP to give you Annex M in stead of Annex A (this gives you more upstream margin).

I don't believe that BT allow either option, but check with support to be sure.

[Ardua]

I don't believe that BT allow either option, but check with support to be sure.

Rik - I hate to ask this question but do LLU operators have this type of flexibility if BT Wholesale does not?

[pctech]

The answer to that is probably yes as they have full control over their kit in most cases and even in a wholesale situation the other providers do allow tweaking of line parameters I understand.

[Steve]

I've not had time to read this thread here but it does mention an upstream cap whether it's LLU or not not sure http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/3936479-adsl2.html?fpart=11&vc=1

[sobranie]

I don't believe that BT allow either option, but check with support to be sure.

IDNet doesn't have an annex m capability Rik as I asked them some months back.

[Ardua]

I've not had time to read this thread here but it does mention an upstream cap whether it's LLU or not not sure http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/3936479-adsl2.html?fpart=11&vc=1

God my head hurts - this is stuff with high technical detail well outside of my ken! 

Steve - thanks for this helpful info. The implication from the last page of this topic is that the upstream speed can be capped on a BT circuit:

'Finally at 4.30pm today they have also had to cap my upstream to 444 kbps and the line is finally stabilised.' (BTBroadband)

There is also reference in the responses to BT doing line tests and detecting errors outwith the property and then sending out an engineer.

The irony here is that my router is clearly very worried about its future as it has remained synchronized now for 2 Days and 7 hours with downstream FECs of 395 CRCs 0.12min (3 in last 15 mins) and upstream FECs of 560 CRCs 0.16/min (6 in last 15 mins). Downstream LA and SNR 15 and 12 and upstream LA and SNR 9 and 7.

[Simon_idnet]

IDNet doesn't have an annex m capability Rik as I asked them some months back.

We can now offer Annexe-M but not all lines qualify and, if yours does, we cannot tell you before hand what upstream speed will be achieved nor how much downstream will be sacrificed to achieve the upstream increase.

We are not able to increase the SNR on the upstream.

To return to the original theme of this thread; I can confirm that our support desk is closed on Easter Sunday as on all other Bank Holidays. Someone earlier (I think it was Griff) stated that we were closed for two weeks over Christmas. We did close our office but our Support Desk was not closed, except for the Bank Holiday days. For the period between Christmas Day and New Year we extend our standard Out-of-hours Service i.e. send us an email or, if you can't, leave a voicemail and we'll call you back.

Our OOH service is staffed by a rota of Duty Engineers working from home who have access to the BT Fault Management systems and can initiate BT Engineer Visits for our Business Customers who have subscribed to Enhanced Care. Whenever possible we will always endeavour to help a residential customer out-of-hours too.

[Rik]

Thanks for the clarification, Simon.

[Ardua]

We can now offer Annexe-M but not all lines qualify and, if yours does, we cannot tell you before hand what upstream speed will be achieved nor how much downstream will be sacrificed to achieve the upstream increase.

We are not able to increase the SNR on the upstream.

To return to the original theme of this thread; I can confirm that our support desk is closed on Easter Sunday as on all other Bank Holidays. Someone earlier (I think it was Griff) stated that we were closed for two weeks over Christmas. We did close our office but our Support Desk was not closed, except for the Bank Holiday days. For the period between Christmas Day and New Year we extend our standard Out-of-hours Service i.e. send us an email or, if you can't, leave a voicemail and we'll call you back.

Our OOH service is staffed by a rota of Duty Engineers working from home who have access to the BT Fault Management systems and can initiate BT Engineer Visits for our Business Customers who have subscribed to Enhanced Care. Whenever possible we will always endeavour to help a residential customer out-of-hours too.

The thrust of my chat was that capped upstream SNR giving an upstream speed of between 800 to 900 would in the short term lead to a reduction in downstream speed but, with greater line stability over a period of days, BT's profiling would increase the downstream connection speed and up the IP profile. In sum, my downstream is only 50% of the estimated speed for my line with a LA of 15 because of upstream errors leading to a loss of synchronization. If upstream SNR cannot be pro-actively managed by the ISP then what can the user do to increase upstream SNR?

[Rik]

Nothing that I'm aware of.