Billion Bipac 7800N on FTTC

stevenrw · Apr 27, 2011, 10:14:24

I've been using the Billion Bipac 7800N router for a while now, but on ADSL. I see a lot of posts regarding the unit and that Simon is testing one at the moment.
I'm only about 50 metres away from a nice new shiny cabinet that's just been installed and will be commissioned any day now, so with that in mind, I'm assuming really fast speeds with FTTC.
So I'm tempted.
I'm very pleased with the performance on ADSL, but in the event of my switching to FTTC with IDnet, can anybody advise how it performs with the modem that BT will install? Presumably Simon will have been looking into that issue in some detail.
I'll have to add a USB wireless adapter to my machine, so I'd likely go with the Billion unit also, just to keep everything simple.
The 2.4ghz wireless issue presents no problems for me btw, but I do think that they might have included a port for NAS at this price point.
However, it does do what it says on the box very well, for ADSL at least.

Rik · Apr 27, 2011, 10:16:13

From what we know, IDNet have tested the 7800 with FTTC and the BT-supplied modem, and were very pleased with the results.

Glenn · Apr 27, 2011, 11:38:08

Steve,

I'm around 4 - 500m from my cabinet, when the BT chap connected my line it showed the max on his test device, 40000/10000, with a sync of 38+/8+ on my Buffalo router.

stevenrw · Apr 27, 2011, 14:20:24

Wow! Yippee, - that's quite quick I'd say.
You've got me all quivery with anticipation.

Did you need to bolt the modem to the floor?

Simon · Apr 27, 2011, 14:21:39

Easy tiger!

Steve · Apr 27, 2011, 14:39:56

I'm certain this is the setup that Bill's using at the moment i.e VDSL modem -PPPOE -7800N and he's running the dual stack beta firmware.

stevenrw · Apr 27, 2011, 16:32:25

Sorry - you've lost me with the dual stack thingy.
I'm running ADSL with the 1.06c firmware and I see from their support pages that there's a 1.06c.dc1 firmware.
What's the difference anybody? It mentions "one to one NAT", but again I'm lost with that.
...cue all you techies....

Steve · Apr 27, 2011, 16:45:13

Sorry the beta firmware provides IPv6 support as well hence the term dual stack. IPv4/IPv6 IDNet supports native IPv6. If you want to try pm your email address The beta firmware is only available on request from support at Billion UK

stevenrw · Apr 27, 2011, 18:00:05

Thanks for the translation Steve.
The question is if I do choose to go FTTC with IDNet rather than remain on ADSL2+ will I need the new ip system, or is it just a "nice to have" and more a future-proofing exercise at this stage.
Also will it make reconfiguring the Billion for FTTC more complicated. (I'm assuming that IDNet will supply the settings once I've taken the plunge and the BT chappie will be responsible for reconfiguring the router)
I'm thinking maybe wait until the beta becomes official. If it ain't broke....

Rik · Apr 27, 2011, 18:03:12

You won't need IPv6 support in the short term, but we all will in a couple of years. I don't think, but I'm not on fibre, that BT will configure your router for you, anything after the modem is down to the user, generally. People here are using it on fibre, though, so you won't be short of advice. You'll certainly be fine waiting until the firmware comes out of beta.

Steve · Apr 27, 2011, 18:16:10

You don't need IPv6 at present for a home network, but the transition has started, there are a few english language sites with IPv6 addresses i.e google and Thinkbroadband. The last blocks of IPv4 have gone which will drive up the price of anyone wanting an IPv4 address. My guess is this cost will drive the web towards increasing use of IPv6. So the next phase say in couple of years will be an internet with an IPv4/IPv6 mix, this will mean ISPs will have to route both types of traffic. We already have AAISP,IDNet,ETNA supplying IPv6 to customers.

The set up of the 7800N is straightforward via the EWAN port (to the VDSL modem) although I've only tested it with a Draytek 120 adsl modem but it's the same PPPOE type connection as FTTC.

pctech · Apr 28, 2011, 18:04:40

Probably a dumb question but is this the same router? (I ask only as I don't want to end up with wrong hardware revision etc)

I'm thinking of getting it when payday comes around.

Rik · Apr 28, 2011, 18:05:10

I believe so, Mitch.

pctech · Apr 28, 2011, 18:07:11

My thoughts are I could get one and then don't have to think about it again.

Also means if I'm ever in the position to get FTTP I can use my own router to terminate the Ethernet feed rather than poor quality BT garbage.

Rik · Apr 28, 2011, 18:08:34

Let me know how it goes will you?

pctech · Apr 28, 2011, 18:08:54

Will do.

stevenrw · Apr 28, 2011, 22:54:51

pctech - I think you will still need a modem between your Bipac 7800N and the incoming feed. The BT router plugs in to the ewan port.
Diagram here
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=8074
Just remember that the Billion unit only transmits wireless "N" on the 2.4GHz frequency, there's not a 5 GHz option. You'll need to check your adapter.
Other than that you will be fairly future proof with this unit, if a tad skint

.

Najarak · Apr 29, 2011, 13:06:22

Quote from: stevenrw on Apr 27, 2011, 10:14:24

I'm very pleased with the performance on ADSL, but in the event of my switching to FTTC with IDnet, can anybody advise how it performs with the modem that BT will install? Presumably Simon will have been looking into that issue in some detail.

To answer your original question, I switched from ADSL to FTTC in April and the Billion works fine, the only problem I had was fathoming out from the manual how to change the settings, in the end I gave up and rang Billion's UK support line, the guy there talked me through it, see my post of April 7th in the other Billion thread. Speedtest results vary, presumably due to congestion, but I usually get about 35Mbps up and 8Mbps down.

stevenrw · Apr 29, 2011, 13:38:09

QuoteSpeedtest results vary, presumably due to congestion, but I usually get about 35Mbps up and 8Mbps down.

I assume that's 35 down and 8 up. I'd expect little congestion (contention) with IDNet however....

pctech · Apr 29, 2011, 13:51:27

Quote from: stevenrw on Apr 28, 2011, 22:54:51
pctech - I think you will still need a modem between your Bipac 7800N and the incoming feed. The BT router plugs in to the ewan port.
Diagram here
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=8074
Just remember that the Billion unit only transmits wireless "N" on the 2.4GHz frequency, there's not a 5 GHz option. You'll need to check your adapter.
Other than that you will be fairly future proof with this unit, if a tad skint .

Will be limking to an ADSL line for the moment but hopefully FTTP in the future.

Najarak · Apr 29, 2011, 14:04:36

Quote from: stevenrw on Apr 29, 2011, 13:38:09
I assume that's 35 down and 8 up. I'd expect little congestion (contention) with IDNet however....

Yes you are right, just a "senior moment".

I would think that the congestion is on the BT network as it occurs during the evenings and speed drops by about 50%

pctech · May 03, 2011, 17:54:54

Right.

Got it plugged in (be aware that with the Amazon package at least you don't get any microfilters)

Unit is about the same size as a 2700 I'd say but can only be stood horzontally (there are protrouding screw threads on the sides for the antennae)

Make sure you set TCP/IP to automatically obtain an IP otherwise you won't be able to log in at first.

Looks to be a bewildering array of options.

Went for quick set up and was quite simple.

My sync is currently 2816 down and 448 up and attenuation showing as 63 down and 31 up but I suppose it needs to 'bed down' with the BT exchange kit so will see.

Lost about 10 Kbps on the download speed but again will see what happens.

Configured it to act as DHCP for my IP allocation but won't go into that here as IDNet don't supply fixed IPs.

Rik · May 03, 2011, 17:59:40

Keep us posted, Mitch.

pctech · May 03, 2011, 18:20:53

Will do.

pctech · May 03, 2011, 18:41:30

Will someone kindly post when they notice that the production firmware supporting IPv6 is released please. my new box is currently running 1.05a according to the configuration interface.

Steve · May 03, 2011, 18:43:46

1.06c is available and the beta IPv6 is pretty stable if you want a copy I will oblige

stevenrw · May 03, 2011, 19:00:28

You might also want to look at changing the wireless channel pctech. I went from 3 bars to max 5 by moving from channel 1 to channel 12

pctech · May 03, 2011, 19:12:59

I did better than that. I switched it off.

Steve · May 03, 2011, 19:19:57

The 7800 is £30 cheaper

pctech · May 03, 2011, 19:28:22

I noticed that but wanted to make sure it had the IPv6 support.

Lance · May 03, 2011, 20:31:59

Quote from: pctech on May 03, 2011, 17:54:54
Configured it to act as DHCP for my IP allocation but won't go into that here as IDNet don't supply fixed IPs.

Just to correct, IDNet do supply fixed IPs.

pctech · May 03, 2011, 22:27:17

I stand corrected.

pctech · May 03, 2011, 22:28:48

I've just come back to my and had to reboot the router because both its interface and routing were working extremely slowly.

Anyone else had this?

pctech · May 03, 2011, 22:46:26

Quote from: Steve on May 03, 2011, 18:43:46
1.06c is available and the beta IPv6 is pretty stable if you want a copy I will oblige

Thanks Steve but think I'll wait until it goes production as running betas on a PC is one thing but directly on hardware is something I'm not right keen on

pctech · May 03, 2011, 22:49:11

Quote from: pctech on May 03, 2011, 22:28:48
I've just come back to my and had to reboot the router because both its interface and routing were working extremely slowly.

Anyone else had this?

I've placed a glass coaster underneath to lift it slightly off the carpet (it lives under my desk) as it seems to vent from the bottom so will see what happens.

stevenrw · May 03, 2011, 22:55:16

Try updating the firmware to version 1.06, worth a try. (The released one, not beta, its the one I am currently running. The beta is by request only at this stage) I never had a problem of that type, I started off with an older version of the firmware which used to drop connection every three weeks or so. Updating solved that, its been pretty solid since then

Updates seem pretty regular which suggests that they are constantly tweaking it to either fix it or improve it depending on your point of view.
I did find their tech support very knowledgable and helpful, not reading from a songsheet like so many offshore ones do these days.
BTW mine runs warm, rather than hot, but equipment that has vents and carpets are never a great marriage. I'd suggest a book or something a little more substantial might be preferable.

pctech · May 03, 2011, 23:00:39

Just downloading now, cheers.

Lance · May 03, 2011, 23:02:23

So if we don't hear from you again we'll know it's failed and bricked the router

pctech · May 04, 2011, 00:59:53

No such luck

After much fiddling about it finally accepted the 1.06c-dc1 update. (by the way was on 1.06a not 1.05, really must get these glasses looked at)

No mention of IPv6 specifically in the firmware but I suspect thats just for the beta Steve is using.

Bad news is I've rebooted so much that blasted BT DLM has kicked in and knocked me down to 2272. well am going to leave well alone now that I have upgraded and done the DHCP config so we'll see how it gets on with the line.

Steve · May 04, 2011, 06:53:23

Mind you Mitch Zen's 18 months away from IPv6 looking at their plans for deployment.

Lance · May 04, 2011, 12:47:34

If I'm going to be playing about with a router and restarting it quite a few times, I tend to disconnect it from the line first.

Rik · May 04, 2011, 12:52:24

It's a shame BT doesn't give us an "I'm testing" mode, isn't it.

Simon · May 04, 2011, 12:55:25

Well, they certainly are!

Rik · May 04, 2011, 13:02:27

pctech · May 04, 2011, 14:04:44

Looks like upgrading the firmware hasn't cured the problem, had to reboot again this morning, adjusted a couple oif line protocol settings so will check it again when I go home but if its still playing up it will be taking a return trip to Amazon and I'll hang fire for a Linksys or something.

stevenrw · May 04, 2011, 17:47:23

Before returning it I'd get on to Billion UK tech support first, there may be a setup issue. Many people (myself included) really rate this unit (although it is a tad overpriced IMHO) and have experienced much improved performance.
As I said before they are really quite helpful (at least in my experience).
Worth a shot I'd say, but of course, the first thing they'd check is the firmware version, and you've done that, so they should go through all the other settings with you.

pctech · May 04, 2011, 18:12:44

I'll have another look tonight and may raise a ticket with them.

Steve · May 04, 2011, 18:20:54

I guess it could be a duff unit, did you restore factory defaults on updating the firmware?

pctech · May 04, 2011, 18:31:24

I did.

And have made sure it is well vented so that the chip and mainboard does not overheat.

pctech · May 04, 2011, 23:08:15

Yep got home and its screwed up again so am now back on my trusty Netgear DG834G v4 and it'll be on its way back to Amazon as I'd rather wait now as looking at the Billion site this router is getting a bit long in the tooth anyway.

Steve · May 05, 2011, 07:55:54

That's a shame as most reviews are very positive but it needs to work for the cost of the unit.

pctech · May 05, 2011, 13:34:03

lot of stuff going on at the minute Steve which is a bit more of a priority, ordainarily I would pursue it as I like solving problems

saltyzip · May 24, 2011, 12:52:00

Hi Chaps,
I have a billion 7800N on BT Infinity and it works like a dream.

38Mb down and 8Mb up according to speedtest.net.

You can't see the sync speed unfortunately as that is the job of the BT Openreach modem.

If you need to know anything else please let me know.

Cheers
S.

ps. I am running on v1.06d of the Billion 7800N firmware and currently testing some new VPN PPTP Client/LAN to LAN functionality.

Rik · May 24, 2011, 12:53:38

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Simon · May 24, 2011, 13:10:05

Ray · May 24, 2011, 13:14:09

stevenrw · May 24, 2011, 22:28:51

Impressive speeds saltyzip - how far are you from the cabinet to get such speeds?
I'm jealous....

Steve · May 26, 2011, 16:17:26

Just started using the 1.06d firmware myself and it is dual stack enabled for IPv4/IPv6 .

pctech · May 26, 2011, 16:39:29

If I end up getting FTTC or fibre I might give one a shot again but my experience seems to indicate an ADSL modem function issue, at least in the unit I had.

stevenrw · May 26, 2011, 17:04:15

I'm sure you must've had a dodgy one pctech, since so many others (myself included) have had such a good experience with the 7800N. Saltyzip seems to be getting blistering speeds from his. (envy, grrrr....)
However, when you have problems with what is, after all, a fairly pricey piece of kit it obviously it dents your confidence a tad and I think I would have wanted to throw my toys out of my playpen if it had happened to me.
If you now have a unit that works well, and has improved your connection, whoever's brand it is, why pay out for another one?

pctech · May 26, 2011, 17:06:39

Was simply to prepare myself for IPv6.

Going to hang fire I think and wait to see what routers Zen offer for sale when they announce they are IPv6 ready,

Steve · May 26, 2011, 17:17:29

Whilst I remember world IPv6 day is June 8th

http://isoc.org/wp/worldipv6day/

Rik · May 26, 2011, 17:21:33

Shall we have a party?

Steve · May 26, 2011, 18:06:19

It's the day after I worry about, I'll be all at sixes and fours.

Rik · May 26, 2011, 18:09:30

I'm usually just all thumbs.

saltyzip · May 27, 2011, 16:35:33

Quote from: stevenrw on May 24, 2011, 22:28:51
Impressive speeds saltyzip - how far are you from the cabinet to get such speeds?
I'm jealous....

I'm about 500 meters away, live on a 5 year old housing estate, so I guess the copper wires to the fibre cabinet are pretty good. I used to sync at 21Mb down and 1.2Mb Up on ADSL with Sky too. Exchange is just over a mile from the cabinet.

One thing with the Billion as soon as you switch on QoS, you will loose some performance, say normal download of 4.5MB/s would drop to around 4.1MB/s with QoS enabled.

Not a big overhead, but worth bearing in mind in case you think your speed test results were on a downward spiral. I assume other routers suffer the same affect, unless they have beefier processor. It is one of my bug bears with reviews of routers, if you can find them that is , nobody every tests this kind of functionality. Another Stat I would like to see is the max throughput over VPN.

p.s. IMO there is a bug in the VPN firmware of the Billion 7800N, in that DNS resolution fails to work. Support will suggest to disable default gateway, but do not do this as internet traffic avoids the VPN Tunnel. Best option is to stick 8.8.8.8 and 208.67.222.222 in the clients "Use the following DNS Server Addresses" section. This will ensure when you run whatismyip.com, it will show the IP of the VPN gateway you are connecting to, and not your own.