Probably the worst ISP - in the world!

[annc]

Might seem a lot, but it's much more helpful than "reset the router" from BT or Sky support. :/

Ben
There I agree with you.  It would be very helpful if you could post the steps she should take, very simply, so that she can follow them easily, thank you for that offer.  She uses Windows Vista.

However, I will relate an experience I recently had with my ISP, who do offer excellent support - but.   My speeds degraded very badly and I got in touch, ran all the usual tests (I have a Mac).  They insisted the problem was my end, there was heavy uploading (apart from a couple of ordinary e-mails I never upload anything), my router had been hijacked, I had malware etc.  I was running round in ever increasing circles running every test, sending every log under the sun, but they didn't believe me. Eventually, I got a local IT firm in to look over everything and they gave my system a completely clean bill of health, phoning my ISP to tell them they had found nothing wrong whatsoever.  Hey presto, as if by magic, my speeds were back to normal.  Just one of the many experiences I have had over the years which, I am sorry to say, gives me a very jaundiced view.

[Lance]

Most ISPs are extremely reluctant to get BT involved hence the threatening of £200 payments

I really need to take issue with this.

Its not a threatening. Its a warning that if BT find no fault then you will have to pay for the cost of the BT engineer. If you've got more money then sense, you could ask support to send out a BT engineer straight away.

For most customers though, they aren't fortunate enough to be able to risk throwing £200 away and that is why good ISPs will try and do the right thing of working with the customer to eliminate possible causes of faults first.

[annc]

I really need to take issue with this.

Its not a threatening. Its a warning that if BT find no fault then you will have to pay for the cost of the BT engineer. If you've got more money then sense, you could ask support to send out a BT engineer straight away.

For most customers though, they aren't fortunate enough to be able to risk throwing £200 away and that is why good ISPs will try and do the right thing of working with the customer to eliminate possible causes of faults first.

Sorry Lance, but I know the way it was said to me by tech support prior to my initial post and it was said threateningly.  I was not being informed I was being told "the profile for the line is 7mbs therefore there must be 7mbs All we can do is call out BT and it will cost you £195"   That is why I was so very angry when I first posted.

[zappaDPJ]

Hi Zap:

To avoid confusion did you mean:   ping www.idnet.net -n 50  ?  Note idNET

I might have...


Cheers, post edited, have you seen my glasses?

[Technical Ben]

I had the same experience as you annc. Mine was with O2. They tried every "excuse" under the sun. I say excuse, because it was. They knew the problem from day one. Their technical support level 3 guy even said he had exactly the same problem. Yet, the answer was still "your router is to blame". It defied logic that they knew the problem was extreme over congestion on their BT resell product, yet in the same breath told me it was my own equipment at fault.

So, I went to IDNet. I have found them extremely helpful and honest. If they ever get the same problems O2 did, I can trust them to tell me, and not try to cover it up. I'd go back to O2, leave for Sky, or try Talk Talk or BT at the drop of a hat. But only if I knew they could be as honest as IDNet. 

[brian_idnet]

Hi Ann

If required we can arrange an out of hours call to suit when your daughter will be around to go through the tests and try and determine the cause of the fault if she is not about during our normal hours.

[Ardua]

Just so that I am clear, what line statistics does IDNet record and what line tests can it run? In this regard, how does IDNet compare with other BT Wholesale broadband re-sellers? For example, Andrews and Arnold's site suggests that they have sophisticated line monitoring tools ( I think that the word 'ping' is mentioned) and will intercede with BT when they believe that there is a line issue.

I also wonder why there isn't a 'plug in' box available to ISPs ( to send out to customers) to allow them to test line performance from the test socket and to monitor/record line performance when in use. The present system of putting most of the onus on the customer to prove a fault prior to, and I suspect during, an engineer call out is both difficult and unfair.

By way of example, after 4 months of ADSL2+, I believe that I have a HR fault on my line. When it hasn't rained for a few days and it is hot, my DSL de-synchronizes when the PTSN phone rings despite the fact that the phone is double-filtered (ADSL Nation faceplate and splitter). My router log (which includes a telephone call log) shows this to be the case. It would be nice if my ISP had this evidence in a form acceptable to BT prior to an engineer call out.

If I was to ask for an engineer call-out, do I ask my phone company or IDNet? How many router log prints would satisfy BT that a fault does exist on my line - albeit, not a constant one.

[sobranie]

If she takes her laptop to a friendly neighbours house who has bb access and the fault manifests itself there too, it will possibly point to a computer setting would it not!
Just my 2p worth.

[zappaDPJ]

A laptop also suggests the possibility of a wireless connection which almost certainly would explain the issue.

[Rik]

Just so that I am clear, what line statistics does IDNet record and what line tests can it run? In this regard, how does IDNet compare with other BT Wholesale broadband re-sellers? For example, Andrews and Arnold's site suggests that they have sophisticated line monitoring tools ( I think that the word 'ping' is mentioned) and will intercede with BT when they believe that there is a line issue.

IDNet use the standard BT tests which have been emasculated this year to only allow them a pass or fail, previously they could test individual aspects of performance. They now have to get BT to do that. Unless an ISP uses WBC (and that will only be the large ones) they are restricted to the same test. Line monitoring is similar to the tool at ThinkBroadband, and determines whether the router is in sync and whether there is any congestion. To the best of my knowledge, IDNet don't use anything like that, but they do monitor their own network continuously.

I also wonder why there isn't a 'plug in' box available to ISPs ( to send out to customers) to allow them to test line performance from the test socket and to monitor/record line performance when in use. The present system of putting most of the onus on the customer to prove a fault prior to, and I suspect during, an engineer call out is both difficult and unfair.

BT are interested in their profit margin and little else. As there's little choice for most people, ie most ISPs are based on BT products, there is no incentive for BT to make it easier.

By way of example, after 4 months of ADSL2+, I believe that I have a HR fault on my line. When it hasn't rained for a few days and it is hot, my DSL de-synchronizes when the PTSN phone rings despite the fact that the phone is double-filtered (ADSL Nation faceplate and splitter). My router log (which includes a telephone call log) shows this to be the case. It would be nice if my ISP had this evidence in a form acceptable to BT prior to an engineer call out.

It would, but see above.

If I was to ask for an engineer call-out, do I ask my phone company or IDNet? How many router log prints would satisfy BT that a fault does exist on my line - albeit, not a constant one.

If it's a voice fault, ask the phone company, otherwise IDNet. BT won't accept any amount of evidence, they will only go by what they find on the day - unless you get a particularly helpful engineer.

[Ardua]

Thanks Rik for yet another comprehensive response; however, how does IDNet's support stack up with what, for example, is stated on the AAISP website:

'Like most broadband lines we make use of links from BT to connect your broadband line to our network. This is a sensible way of providing a broadband service to the whole country, but does mean we have to deal with BT - particularly if and when things break.

We pride ourselves in having a very capable team of people that deal with faults. We have a close working relationship with BT, and our team are well known within all parts of BT for not tolerating being fobbed off.

We have detailed monitoring of lines that allow us to quickly identify faults and take action to resolve them (whether BT, or changes at your end).

In fact, we are so confident we know what we are doing, we'll even take on problems other ISPs leave behind, and that is why we make this offer.'

Put simply, is IDNet is prepared to be as pro-active as AAISP when it comes to dealing with BT?  IDNet may be technically competent but they do not always deal with the PR side of the business particularly well. The OP was looking for help from her ISP - not from IDNetters in the round.

[pctech]

It is worth pointing out though that AAISP have more information available to them than others because they use their own proprietary networking kit (Firebrick http://www.firebrick.co.uk) which they designed in conjunction with another ISP, Watchfront.

[Rik]

Put simply, is IDNet is prepared to be as pro-active as AAISP when it comes to dealing with BT?  IDNet may be technically competent but they do not always deal with the PR side of the business particularly well. The OP was looking for help from her ISP - not from IDNetters in the round.

You'd have to ask them, I can't speak for the company, I can only tell members what I know. As to the OP's motives, I'd rather not comment.

[Simon]

I'd also point out that AAISP are not magicians.  I know of someone who left IDNet for them, with the expectation of the line being fixed, and the person ended up worse off, eventually moving back to IDNet.  Sometimes BT are simply immovable.  

[Ardua]

It is worth pointing out though that AAISP have more information available to them than others because they use their own proprietary networking kit (Firebrick http://www.firebrick.co.uk) which they designed in conjunction with another ISP, Watchfront.

So it is fair to say, that IDNet may not have as much technical information available to them as other ISPs. Does this not put them at a technical and commercial disadvantage when it comes to supporting their customers? 

[pctech]

I really don't know but I think ISPs have to set up a ping test whereas AAISP's kit carries out LCP pings constantly.

I definitely think though that they are rather expensive for what they actually provide compared to the likes of IDNet and others.

[Ardua]

I really don't know but I think ISPs have to set up a ping test whereas AAISP's kit carries out LCP pings constantly.

I definitely think though that they are rather expensive for what they actually provide compared to the likes of IDNet and others.

I have stayed with IDNet for 5 years because I like the packages that they offer. However, having had major issues with ADSL2+ which, at Support's behest, led me to change faceplates, disconnect bell wires, remove DECT phones and replace 2 routers, I now have a relatively stable connection.  I now have a fully integrated ADSL/DECT router which produces a comprehensive log of events. It is by looking back over the past 2 months that I can now see the relationship between incoming calls and DSL disconnects/re-synchs which are worse when the weather is dry and hot - as it was in March/April when I re-graded to ADSL2+. It has been showery for the past 5 days and my connection has remained solid at 12.5Mbps. I might not have had so much disruption had Support been able to suggest that the reason for my disconnection might be a potential HR fault and told me what to record in the way of proof for them to put before BT.

It may be that AAISP is expensive: conversely, Sky and TalkTalk are cheap. I confess that I am looking at options to move ISP towards the end of the year when, hopefully, my exchange is FTTC-enabled. The support given to me over the past few years and comments on forums such as this will undoubtedly be a factor in my decision.

[pctech]

As has been said though unless you go with an LLU option (AAISP offer BE as well as BT circuits) then all ISPs are ultimately customers of BT.

[Ardua]

As has been said though unless you go with an LLU option (AAISP offer BE as well as BT circuits) then all ISPs are ultimately customers of BT.

I do not hold any candle for AAISP: their packages do not suit my usage pattern. To me, the choice of an ISP is no different from choosing my car insurer. Cost, usage patterns, quality of service (ie; what do customers say about them when things go wrong) etc all come into play. I confess that events over the past 12 months - loss of service, support issues and the way that they have been handled - have changed my view about IDNet to a small degree. I am also not sure that any of their FTTC packages would suit my future usage should I decide to go down this route. At the end of the day, these are all personal choices.

[pctech]

Indeed

Agreed with you on the packages which is why I use someone else for broadband.

[kinmel]

I definitely think though that they are rather expensive for what they actually provide compared to the likes of IDNet and others.

The difference is far less than some people imagine, For Adsl2+ (up to 24meg ) Idnet charged £25.52 a month and I never exceeded my limit, now with AAISP I pay £26.60 and with the same usage pattern, I don't exceed their limits either. If I was to go over the limit one month, the allowance for the next month is reduced by the appropriate amount, allowing me to balance usage over time.

I have a huge amount of information about my line from my Control Panels, which means I don't need to contact support about problems and so they can concentrate on major issues


Today one of my Panels shows that I am running on a backup fibre link...............

[pctech]

For that price though gives you 6GB  peak data and 50 GB off peak whereas IDNet offer 40GB, that to me is expensive.

[kinmel]

For that price though gives you 6GB  peak data and 50 GB off peak whereas IDNet offer 40GB, that to me is expensive.

Certainly large downloads between 9am and 6pm burn up the allowance, but I have always scheduled large downloads for evenings and weekends, when my allowance gets me 300GB

[pctech]

As always with these things its horses for courses.

[Ardua]

Certainly large downloads between 9am and 6pm burn up the allowance, but I have always scheduled large downloads for evenings and weekends, when my allowance gets me 300GB

Not sure that I understand how 6GB peak and 50GB off peak suddenly becomes 300GB evenings and weekends.