Catch 22

[bsw]

Hi,

I seem to be in a Catch 22 situation.

For the past 3+ years at this address I have enjoyed speeds in excess of 6M on an 8M services and been very content. Occasionally the speed has dipped but I usually give it a day to sort itself out before worrying. Yesterday was one of those days - speed down to a consistant 1.8 M according to Speedtest.net - the service I always use.

Today it is just the same so I rang Support and to be blunt I am pretty unimpressed by the attitude of the guy I spoke to.

It seems to boil down to this: I need to do at least one BT speedtest to get my line profile. My router report that it is synching at over 8M as usual so my profile is likely to be around 7M as it has been in the past when I have checked it. If it is and I'm getting 1.8M then there is nothing Idnet can do for me as it must be contention. For my speed to drop to 30% of "Normal" as a result of contention then a hell of a lot of new subscribers must have joined overnight.

So I tried to do a BT Speedtest but it continually times out and gives me a message to the effect that there is a problem and I should take it up with my ISP. So I did - got the same helpful chap - nothing he can do until I email him my BT Speedtest results.

BT have been inundating me with offers to take their Broadband / Phone package and I have told them where to put it - I don't like BT from way back - but in a situation like this I feel I might get better service. I get the impression from the service I "received" today and reading other post that Idnet are very reluctant to speak to BT. Why is that and what should I do now ?

bsw

[.Griff.]

In my opinion Idnet support can be hit and miss.

Wonderful and helpful one minute, rude and abrupt the next. Having called numerous times now on a variety of issues and having spoken to different people I'm now of the opinion it's one particular employee spoiling Idnet's reputation rather than the support department as a whole.

If it's possible I'd try and run the BT Speedtester either very last thing at night or early in the morning when it seems to load without a problem for me. During the day it's a different story and I can sit there for ages before giving up.

I'd also try Idnet again tomorrow. Maybe you'll get through to someone else who's much more professional and prepared to help.

[Simon]

The BT speediest is an essential first step towards any fault diagnosis.  Unfortunately, it requires a lot of patience sometimes, but it's the only way to get your line profile.  If your speed has suddenly dropped, it sounds like some sort of event may have dropped your profile.  If you can persevere and get the test done, it will help.  Try later in the evening, or early morning, when perhaps the servers might not be so busy?

[Simon]

Oh, and do you know who you spoke to at IDNet?

[Technical Ben]

The BT speediest is an essential first step towards any fault diagnosis.  Unfortunately, it requires a lot of patience sometimes, but it's the only way to get your line profile.  If your speed has suddenly dropped, it sounds like some sort of event may have dropped your profile.  If you can persevere and get the test done, it will help.  Try later in the evening, or early morning, when perhaps the servers might not be so busy?

Is it possible BT really do have us all in a spin? "Get a BT speedtest" then chuckling to themselves as they know they have turned of speed test for the week, and are waiting for the customers to migrate over.   

[Simon]

Quite possibly.  I've also just noticed my Freudien slip typo.  "BT Speediest". 

[Ardua]

Running a BT Speedtest can be a real pain at times. No comfort I know, but it worked for me first time earlier today.

[bsw]

So basically Idnet are re-selling me a BT service which has recently diminished to the point that I cannot access the BT speedtester server in order to prove that my service has diminished.

As I said Catch 22.

Normally when I get cr*p service I get the service suppliers attention by refusing to pay - unfortunately I have paid Idnet in advance.

I am not prepared to stay up until the early hours or get up at some ungodly hour just to try to get a BT speedtest - with no guarantee of success. The speedtester program told me there was a problem and I should talk to my ISP. To then be told that I must get a speedtest done is absurd.

The whole situation is a joke. Why are Idnet so reluctant to talk to BT on my behalf - does it cost them money ?

I do know the name of the chap I spoke to but naming him on here isn't going to help. Incidentally I told him that I had done some traceroute and pathping tests which showed some delays and inconsistencies on the Idnet part of the journey but apparently these are normal and irrelevant. Makes you wonder why some websites suggest you do these test as part of the troubleshooting process. According to the nameless one it's all down to contention on my exchange. Given that it's a village exchange I think I might have noticed if the number of houses needed to degrade my connection by 2/3rds had suddenly appeared.


   

[Simon_idnet]

The reason that we ask for the results of the BT Speedtester is so that we can see what your Profile should be from the network side but, alarmingly often, the Profile can be set differently on the equipment that faces you. The results of the Speedtester will reveal that to us and then we can take it to BT as evidence of a fault between their relevant systems. Without that evidence then we're in a merry-go-round with BT where they say "no fault found" and want to send an engineer round (with the real prospect of a cost being levied) and further delays and annoyance for our customers.

If we can isolate the problem early then we can fix it quickly. Without all the evidence we're just guessing.

[bsw]

So I have to stay here continually trying BTSpeedtester until I get a result, however long it takes. Not a good system is it ?

[.Griff.]

I am not prepared to stay up until the early hours or get up at some ungodly hour just to try to get a BT speedtest

I wouldn't exactly call 8am/9am "some ungodly hour".

It's not a good system no and we've all experienced our fair share of problems with the BT Speedtester but as a BTW reseller there's little Idnet can do without you performing the test.

EDIT - It's a little slow but the tester is working perfectly for me at the moment.

[Lance]

I think it's worthwhile pointing out that a rise in profile can take up to 5 days.

The pings and traceroutes may show high results on Idnet routers because they are set to treat pings with low priority.

[Simon_idnet]

So I have to stay here continually trying BTSpeedtester until I get a result, however long it takes. Not a good system is it ?

I couldn't agree with you more. We've tried shouting at it and at them. We've tried logic and we've tried reason. The only way to beat the system is to understand how it works, figure out its weaknesses and then exploit those weaknesses. Gaining evidence every step along the way builds the case in proving the blindingly obvious - which is where BT is weakest.

[bsw]

@Simon_idnet. I'm not quite sure what you mean but I've just tried the BTSpeedtester again with the same result i.e. timed out. Now at this time of night surely there cannot be that many people trying to access it. Unless there are thousands of people suddenly getting cr*p service. If that is the case then perhaps there is a temporary problem with the infrastructure. If there is then be honest and tell us. I can be patient if I know something is being done but this denial of my problem is unacceptable.

At what point will Idnet accept that they have a paying customer - me - why has a problem and cannot go down the normal route to solving it because his service is so bad that he cannot take the first step and escalate the matter to BT regardless of the consequences ?

[bsw]

@Simon_idnet.

I've just read the next tread about slow speeds and it makes me wonder if my line in the exchange (small, rural village) has been switched on to a different VP. My Speedtest.net results are so consistant at 1.8 / 1.9 whereas they used to be consistant at 6.0 / 6.1 that I am convinced some change has been made rather than it being down to contention. But I can't ask BT for an explanation and Idnet won't. Very frustrating situation.

[Bill]

I've just tried the BTSpeedtester again with the same result i.e. timed out. Now at this time of night surely there cannot be that many people trying to access it.

It can get quite busy through to the small hours at times, and the ZX81 that BT run it on gets tired easily

But seriously... a dubious or out-of-date Java installation can kill it, and it can be fussy about the browser. I've got Safari, Camino and Opera here (Mac versions) and sometimes have to try all three before I find the one that the speedtester will co-operate with this time.

[Simon]

Any clues from the exchange checker?

http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/

[bsw]

@Simon. No just checked that - VPs showing Green.

However managed to get a BT Speedtest done and my profile has been set to 2000K for some reason despite synch speed of 8000+.

I've emailed the test results to support and will wait to see the outcome.

Long, tedious day.

Goodnight all.

[Steve]

At least that's a result and an explanation

[Simon]

Could well be a stuck profile, which I believe IDNet should be able to get BT to reset, then it should start to improve. 

[Technical Ben]

Glad to hear your on the way to solving it. At the moment it's like the Post office [So like BT], if they decide to close the local centre at 12.30pm, your stuck without an afternoon delivery. Even if the companies that post to you are happy to offer first class post [Like IDNet]. 

[bsw]

Well it's 10.30 am Thursday and the speed hasn't improved yet nor have I had any response from Idnet.

I'll let you all know what happens.

[bsw]

Update

Message from Idnet just received:

The test shows there is a mismatch in BT's profiling. I have requested
BT carry out a reset of the circuit for you in order to recalculate.
Please allow 72 hours for the changes to take effect. It is important
that the router you are using is left online.

Maybe light at the end of the tunnel - although as a narrowboater it usually means another boat coming the other way and some banging and scraping as you pass each other - not nice.

[Simon]

There is, of course, the question of why it dropped in the first place, but things should improve once your profile has been reset. 

[bsw]

24 Hrs on and no change.

[Gary]

24 Hrs on and no change.

I thought you were told 72 hours, not 24, be patient see what happens.

[Steve]

A BT speedtest will tell if BT have done anything re your IP profile.

[Gary]

A BT speedtest will tell if BT have done anything re your IP profile.

Why on eath cant BT make a flash based version? Lion wont even have Java nless you install it, and tbh I won't. I don't even install shockwave anymore.

[pctech]

I think Java is supposed to be lower overheads than Flash because no graphic data has to be sent.

[Gary]

I think Java is supposed to be lower overheads than Flash because no graphic data has to be sent.

Guess I wont be using that if I install Lion, really cant be bothered with java just for BT speed tests. TB use a Flash based one as well as java... I think...

[Simon]

Does the TB one give the IP profile?

[pctech]

If you get line problems you'll have to Gary because as you know its BT's way or no information superhighway 

[Rik]

Does the TB one give the IP profile?

Not afaik.

[.Griff.]

Nope they don't.

[Steve]

This thread highlights the value of the BT Speedtest, sadly without it there would have been no evidence of the IP profile mismatch

[Simon]

Indeed.  It's just a shame only the BT Speedtester will provide the IP profile. 

[Rik]

And that it's such a hit and miss affair getting a result.

[Simon]

Aamoi, why can other speedtesters not give the profile?

[Glenn]

They only measure throughput and can't access BT exchanges to access the profile.

[.Griff.]

Aamoi, why can other speedtesters not give the profile?

I assume it's because you enter the line number into the BT Speedtester and the IP Profile is "looked up" from that rather than anything to do with the test itself.

I guess BT wouldn't be all that happy letting any third party have access to that information.

[Simon]

Good point, Griff. 

[bsw]

I thought you were told 72 hours, not 24, be patient see what happens.

I think "allow 72 hours" means that it could be up to 72 hours not it will be exactly 72 hours.

Anyway it now 48 hours and my speed is slighly worse.

[Simon]

What does the BT speedtest say now?

[bsw]

What does the BT speedtest say now?

Times out.

[Rik]

All any of us can say is 'keep trying'. Simon Davies has told you why they need the result from you, and until they have that, and 72 hours have passed with no change, there's little that they can get BT to do, except send out an engineer to you at a potential cost of some £230.

[bsw]

All any of us can say is 'keep trying'. Simon Davies has told you why they need the result from you, and until they have that, and 72 hours have passed with no change, there's little that they can get BT to do, except send out an engineer to you at a potential cost of some £230.

Well yes I wasn't expecting you to say anything different - just keeping you all updated.

Now the good news - speed back up to 5.6 , nearly where it was before. Still can't get BTSpeedtester to run but don't care anyway.

It would be nice to know what caused the problem - wonder if I'll ever find out. If I do I'll post it here to add to communal "knowledge".

Personally I suspect a BT "plot" to get me back as a subscriber.

[Glenn]

Good to know it is recovering.

[Rik]

I've had a couple of bad spells with the line in the past six weeks, loss of 2M of sync, obvious noise on the line (both lines, actually) which has disappeared as suddenly as it arrived. My conclusion was that the mass of BT engineering work being done ahead of FTTC was involved, but I'll never know for sure.

[FritzBox]

With all the excitement of folk getting the speedtester to work, thought I'd give it a go. Guess what, got my usual

The Performance Tester is currently unable to run a speed test for your broadband connection. Please try again shortly, however if this problem persists, raise the issue with your service provider.

What a complete load of utter rubbish it is

[Rik]

On which we all agree.