Outgoing SMTP Server

Tony Yarwood · Sep 15, 2011, 10:05:47

Hi all

Sorry to bother you all with this, I'm sure it's been discussed before, did do a search and I did ask idnet help but didn't get a satisfactory answer.

It's to do with outgoing mail, behind my VPN server (UK based) I just tried to sent an email and got this reply, "Message has not been sent Server reply -4.7.1 Quota exceeded you have sent an excessive number of messages this hour please virus check your machine and if running a mailserver please ensure it is not acting as an open relay"

Absolute twaddle of course! as soon as I disconnect from VPN no problems, however idnet help said I should be able to use the mail server behind VPN.

The other question is trying to post from abroad, I'm sure I've seen it asked about but can't seem to find it, can someone confirm that IDNet won't have it?

My settings are; smtp.idnet.com port 587 connection Regular

Best regards

Tony

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Rik · Sep 15, 2011, 10:12:26

I'm not certain, Tony, but I believe you are right that you can't send mail from outside the UK using IDNet's servers, unfortunately, I can't get through to support to check right now.

VPN's something I know nothing about, sorry.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly who can help.

Tony Yarwood · Sep 15, 2011, 10:14:10

Quote from: Rik on Sep 15, 2011, 10:12:26
I'm not certain, Tony, but I believe you are right that you can't send mail from outside the UK using IDNet's servers, unfortunately, I can't get through to support to check right now.

VPN's something I know nothing about, sorry. I'm sure someone will be along shortly who can help.

Thanks Rik

MisterW · Sep 15, 2011, 11:19:48

I don't actually have an Idnet account so I might not be quite correct here BUT most ISP mail servers will allow you to send mail when not connected directly to their network (e.g VPN) providing you authenticate using a username/password. I assume the Idnet servers provide this facility ? I'm sure Rik will know. Some require secure authentication(SSL) and some don't so you need to check exactly which the Idnet servers require.
Hope that helps

Rik · Sep 15, 2011, 11:22:22

They do, Ian, port 587, no SSL.

Tony Yarwood · Sep 15, 2011, 11:38:59

Quote from: Rik on Sep 15, 2011, 11:22:22
They do, Ian, port 587, no SSL.

I've had really weird experiences with the outgoing server ever since I've been with IDNet, I'm glad I kept my other accounts going.
It will allow messages to one recipient to go through behind a VPN server, but if you've got a dozen BCC's it baulks.

Best regards

Tony

Rik · Sep 15, 2011, 11:40:24

Possibly it's seeing that as spamming?

MisterW · Sep 15, 2011, 12:28:04

QuoteIt will allow messages to one recipient to go through behind a VPN server, but if you've got a dozen BCC's it baulks.

I can't (at the moment!) see why the behaviour would be any different in that respect whether behind a VPN or not. The main difference is that when behind a VPN the mail server will see the sending IP as the public IP of wherever your VPN server is hosted.

Tony Yarwood · Sep 15, 2011, 13:06:55

Quote from: Rik on Sep 15, 2011, 11:40:24
Possibly it's seeing that as spamming?

Could be, but then why would it accept it 5 secs later when I disconnect from my VPN server?

Best regards

Tony

Tony Yarwood · Sep 15, 2011, 13:08:49

Quote from: MisterW on Sep 15, 2011, 12:28:04
I can't (at the moment!) see why the behaviour would be any different in that respect whether behind a VPN or not. The main difference is that when behind a VPN the mail server will see the sending IP as the public IP of wherever your VPN server is hosted.

That's what's been puzzling me for ages too

Best regards

Tony

Lance · Sep 15, 2011, 13:18:30

It looks to me as if you need to ensure that an authenticated SMTP connection is used. When it sees the IP address of your VPN connection, unless it is in IDNet's IP address range it won't work.

You shouldn't have any trouble from sending emails from abroad either, as long as you use the authenticated connection.

Tony Yarwood · Sep 15, 2011, 13:49:54

Quote from: Lance on Sep 15, 2011, 13:18:30
It looks to me as if you need to ensure that an authenticated SMTP connection is used. When it sees the IP address of your VPN connection, unless it is in IDNet's IP address range it won't work.

You shouldn't have any trouble from sending emails from abroad either, as long as you use the authenticated connection.

Just tried that, got this; "Message was not sent -5.7.1 recipient address rejected: Access denied

Best regards

Tony

MisterW · Sep 15, 2011, 13:57:51

Sorry, I assumed you were already already using an authenticated connection otherwise it wouldn't be working at all. That tends to indicate that the Idnet servers will accept connections from 'foreign' IP's but limit what can be sent. Strange, I would have expected them to refuse any non-authenticated connection completely.
Anyway, sounds like you don't have the correct username/password OR have SSL authentication selected.

Edit: make sure you have the settings as Rik posted earlier

Quoteport 587, no SSL.

Tony Yarwood · Sep 15, 2011, 14:08:40

Quote from: MisterW on Sep 15, 2011, 13:57:51
Sorry, I assumed you were already already using an authenticated connection otherwise it wouldn't be working at all. That tends to indicate that the Idnet servers will accept connections from 'foreign' IP's but limit what can be sent. Strange, I would have expected them to refuse any non-authenticated connection completely.
Anyway, sounds like you don't have the correct username/password OR have SSL authentication selected.

Edit: make sure you have the settings as Rik posted earlier

As I said in my first post; My settings are; smtp.idnet.com port 587, connection Regular. Receiving mail I've never had a problem with anywhere in the world, it's only posting. In the UK everything works fine as long as I'm not using VPN, but IDNet helpline told me that shouldn't be a problem.

Best regards

Tony

MisterW · Sep 15, 2011, 14:30:28

Quoteconnection Regular

I'm not sure what you mean by that ? what mail Client are you using ?
When you tried using authentications you got

QuoteJust tried that, got this; "Message was not sent -5.7.1 recipient address rejected: Access denied

is that correct ?
What settings were you using then ?

Lance · Sep 15, 2011, 16:03:44

If connecting using an Idnet ip, authentication isn't required. It is in all other cases.

Tony Yarwood · Sep 15, 2011, 17:31:58

Quote from: MisterW on Sep 15, 2011, 14:30:28
I'm not sure what you mean by that ? what mail Client are you using ?
When you tried using authentications you got is that correct ?
What settings were you using then ?

I use two email clients The Bat and Thunderbird. The Bat is the one I use primarily with IDNet in which there a few possible settings;
1) Regular (using the same details for receiving and sending) not a secure authentication.
2) Set up a secure authentication with specific user name and password
3) Secure to regular port (STARTTLS)
4) Secure to dedicated port (TLS).

Best regards

Tony

Rik · Sep 15, 2011, 17:32:55

Quote from: Tony Yarwood on Sep 15, 2011, 14:08:40
As I said in my first post; My settings are; smtp.idnet.com port 587, connection Regular. Receiving mail I've never had a problem with anywhere in the world, it's only posting. In the UK everything works fine as long as I'm not using VPN, but IDNet helpline told me that shouldn't be a problem.

I can't get hold of the person I need to until tomorrow, but I'll try and find out more then. Did support give you any specific instructions?

Rik · Sep 15, 2011, 17:33:53

Quote from: Tony Yarwood on Sep 15, 2011, 17:31:58
I use two email clients The Bat and Thunderbird. The Bat is the one I use primarily with IDNet in which there a few possible settings;
1) Regular (using the same details for receiving and sending) not a secure authentication.
2) Set up a secure authentication with specific user name and password
3) Secure to regular port (STARTTLS)
4) Secure to dedicated port (TLS).

You need to be using 2, not regular, Tony.

Tony Yarwood · Sep 15, 2011, 17:46:38

Quote from: Rik on Sep 15, 2011, 17:33:53
You need to be using 2, not regular, Tony.

That again works without VPN as soon as I use VPN I get "Message was not sent -5.7.1 recipient address rejected: Access denied"

Best regards

Tony

MisterW · Sep 15, 2011, 17:47:23

I wasn't sure about that Rik, I originally thought that meant SSL, but looking at the Bat guide I think you're right.

and I'm not going to be able to help much, as I don't know what exactly the idnet server wants as username/password. I know how it works with my ISP(PlusNet)

and its a different username/password to the email account.

Edit: looking at this guide here http://www.smtp-server.com/configure_thebat.htm , then once you've selected option 2 there is a further Authentication dialog to fill in the username/password. Make sure 'Require secure authentication' is unchecked on that dialog.

Rik · Sep 15, 2011, 17:53:50

It's the email account name, eg who@idnet.com, plus the password used to login to that account by the POP/IMAP side of the client, Ian.

MisterW · Sep 15, 2011, 18:40:50

Thanks Rik, now you see that's different on PlusNet, you can have unlimited email accounts (anything@<accountname>.plus.net) with different usernames/passwords but the master DSL account name/password must always be used for smtp authentication.

Rik · Sep 15, 2011, 18:47:45

Just as well it's not like that, Ian, once I've entered mine in the router I forget it and have to scrabble around to find it again.

Tony Yarwood · Sep 15, 2011, 18:51:40

Quote from: MisterW on Sep 15, 2011, 18:40:50
the master DSL account name/password must always be used for smtp authentication.

That's the same on IDNet I think. But it seems they've got it configured to only accept posting when you're logged in to IDNet and showing one of their IPs.

Best regards

Tony