Outgoing SMTP Server

Started by Tony Yarwood, Sep 15, 2011, 10:05:47

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Tony Yarwood

Hi all

Sorry to bother you all with this, I'm sure it's been discussed before, did do a search and I did ask idnet help but didn't get a satisfactory answer.

It's to do with outgoing mail, behind my VPN server (UK based) I just tried to sent an email and got this reply, "Message has not been sent Server reply -4.7.1 Quota exceeded you have sent an excessive number of messages this hour please virus check your machine and if running a mailserver please ensure it is not acting as an open relay"

Absolute twaddle of course! as soon as I disconnect from VPN no problems, however idnet help said I should be able to use the mail server behind VPN.

The other question is trying to post from abroad, I'm sure I've seen it asked about but can't seem to find it, can someone confirm that IDNet won't have it?

My settings are; smtp.idnet.com port 587 connection Regular

Best regards

Tony

Google ain't your friend.
More privacy, no IP logging.
http://ixquick.com/

Rik

I'm not certain, Tony, but I believe you are right that you can't send mail from outside the UK using IDNet's servers, unfortunately, I can't get through to support to check right now.

VPN's something I know nothing about, sorry. :( I'm sure someone will be along shortly who can help.
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Tony Yarwood

Quote from: Rik on Sep 15, 2011, 10:12:26
I'm not certain, Tony, but I believe you are right that you can't send mail from outside the UK using IDNet's servers, unfortunately, I can't get through to support to check right now.

VPN's something I know nothing about, sorry. :( I'm sure someone will be along shortly who can help.

Thanks Rik :)

MisterW

I don't actually have an Idnet account so I might not be quite correct here BUT most ISP mail servers will allow you to send mail when not connected directly to their network (e.g VPN) providing you authenticate using a username/password. I assume the Idnet servers provide this facility ? I'm sure Rik will know. Some require secure authentication(SSL) and some don't so you need to check exactly which the Idnet servers require.
Hope that helps

Rik

They do, Ian, port 587, no SSL.
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Tony Yarwood

Quote from: Rik on Sep 15, 2011, 11:22:22
They do, Ian, port 587, no SSL.

I've had really weird experiences with the outgoing server ever since I've been with IDNet, I'm glad I kept my other accounts going.
It will allow messages to one recipient to go through behind a VPN server, but if you've got a dozen BCC's it baulks.

Best regards

Tony

Rik

Possibly it's seeing that as spamming?
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

MisterW

QuoteIt will allow messages to one recipient to go through behind a VPN server, but if you've got a dozen BCC's it baulks.
I can't (at the moment!) see why the behaviour would be any different in that respect whether behind a VPN or not. The main difference is that when behind a VPN the mail server will see the sending IP as the public IP of wherever your VPN server is hosted.

Tony Yarwood

Quote from: Rik on Sep 15, 2011, 11:40:24
Possibly it's seeing that as spamming?

Could be, but then why would it accept it 5 secs later when I disconnect from my VPN server?

Best regards

Tony

Tony Yarwood

Quote from: MisterW on Sep 15, 2011, 12:28:04
I can't (at the moment!) see why the behaviour would be any different in that respect whether behind a VPN or not. The main difference is that when behind a VPN the mail server will see the sending IP as the public IP of wherever your VPN server is hosted.

That's what's been puzzling me for ages too :(

Best regards

Tony

Lance

It looks to me as if you need to ensure that an authenticated SMTP connection is used. When it sees the IP address of your VPN connection, unless it is in IDNet's IP address range it won't work.

You shouldn't have any trouble from sending emails from abroad either, as long as you use the authenticated connection.
Lance
_____

This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Tony Yarwood

Quote from: Lance on Sep 15, 2011, 13:18:30
It looks to me as if you need to ensure that an authenticated SMTP connection is used. When it sees the IP address of your VPN connection, unless it is in IDNet's IP address range it won't work.

You shouldn't have any trouble from sending emails from abroad either, as long as you use the authenticated connection.

Just tried that, got this; "Message was not sent -5.7.1 recipient address rejected: Access denied

Best regards

Tony

MisterW

Sorry, I assumed you were already already using an authenticated connection otherwise it wouldn't be working at all. That tends to indicate that the Idnet servers will accept connections from 'foreign' IP's but limit what can be sent. Strange, I would have expected them to refuse any non-authenticated connection completely.
Anyway, sounds like you don't have the correct username/password OR have SSL authentication selected.

Edit: make sure you have the settings as Rik posted earlier
Quoteport 587, no SSL.

Tony Yarwood

#13
Quote from: MisterW on Sep 15, 2011, 13:57:51
Sorry, I assumed you were already already using an authenticated connection otherwise it wouldn't be working at all. That tends to indicate that the Idnet servers will accept connections from 'foreign' IP's but limit what can be sent. Strange, I would have expected them to refuse any non-authenticated connection completely.
Anyway, sounds like you don't have the correct username/password OR have SSL authentication selected.

Edit: make sure you have the settings as Rik posted earlier

As I said in my first post; My settings are; smtp.idnet.com port 587, connection Regular.  Receiving mail I've never had a problem with anywhere in the world, it's only posting. In the UK everything works fine as long as I'm not using VPN, but IDNet helpline told me that shouldn't be a problem.

Best regards

Tony

MisterW

Quoteconnection Regular
I'm not sure what you mean by that ? what mail Client are you using ?
When you tried using authentications you got
QuoteJust tried that, got this; "Message was not sent -5.7.1 recipient address rejected: Access denied
is that correct ?
What settings were you using then ?

Lance

If connecting using an Idnet ip, authentication isn't required. It is in all other cases.
Lance
_____

This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Tony Yarwood

Quote from: MisterW on Sep 15, 2011, 14:30:28
I'm not sure what you mean by that ? what mail Client are you using ?
When you tried using authentications you got  is that correct ?
What settings were you using then ?

I use two email clients The Bat and Thunderbird. The Bat is the one I use primarily with IDNet in which there a few possible settings;
1) Regular (using the same details for receiving and sending) not a secure authentication.
2) Set up a secure authentication with specific user name and password
3) Secure to regular port (STARTTLS)
4) Secure to dedicated port (TLS).

Best regards

Tony

Rik

Quote from: Tony Yarwood on Sep 15, 2011, 14:08:40
As I said in my first post; My settings are; smtp.idnet.com port 587, connection Regular.  Receiving mail I've never had a problem with anywhere in the world, it's only posting. In the UK everything works fine as long as I'm not using VPN, but IDNet helpline told me that shouldn't be a problem.

I can't get hold of the person I need to until tomorrow, but I'll try and find out more then. Did support give you any specific instructions?
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Rik

Quote from: Tony Yarwood on Sep 15, 2011, 17:31:58
I use two email clients The Bat and Thunderbird. The Bat is the one I use primarily with IDNet in which there a few possible settings;
1) Regular (using the same details for receiving and sending) not a secure authentication.
2) Set up a secure authentication with specific user name and password
3) Secure to regular port (STARTTLS)
4) Secure to dedicated port (TLS).

You need to be using 2, not regular, Tony.
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Tony Yarwood

Quote from: Rik on Sep 15, 2011, 17:33:53
You need to be using 2, not regular, Tony.

That again works without VPN as soon as I use VPN I get "Message was not sent -5.7.1 recipient address rejected: Access denied"

Best regards

Tony


MisterW

#20
I wasn't sure about that Rik, I originally thought that meant SSL, but looking at the Bat guide I think you're right. :)
and I'm not going to be able to help much, as I don't know what exactly the idnet server wants as username/password. I know how it works with my ISP(PlusNet)  :) and its a different username/password to the email account. :(

Edit: looking at this guide here http://www.smtp-server.com/configure_thebat.htm , then once you've selected option 2 there is a further Authentication dialog to fill in the username/password. Make sure 'Require secure authentication' is unchecked on that dialog.

Rik

It's the email account name, eg who@idnet.com, plus the password used to login to that account by the POP/IMAP side of the client, Ian. :)
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

MisterW

Thanks Rik, now you see that's different on PlusNet, you can have unlimited email accounts (anything@<accountname>.plus.net) with different usernames/passwords but the master DSL account name/password must always be used for smtp authentication.

Rik

Just as well it's not like that, Ian, once I've entered mine in the router I forget it and have to scrabble around to find it again. :)
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Tony Yarwood

Quote from: MisterW on Sep 15, 2011, 18:40:50
the master DSL account name/password must always be used for smtp authentication.

That's the same on IDNet I think. But it seems they've got it configured to only accept posting when you're logged in to IDNet and showing one of their IPs.

Best regards

Tony

MisterW

QuoteBut it seems they've got it configured to only accept posting when you're logged in to IDNet and showing one of their IPs.
It wouldn't make sense to have it configured like that Tony, there's no need for authentication from an Idnet IP.

@rik,I use Keepass http://keepass.info/ to hold all my account/password for ISP,email,online shopping etc info so only have to remember one phase. Now what was that phrase... :red:

Rik

Not true, Tony, I use auth-smtp when I'm travelling and using a dongle or wi fi hotspot.
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Tony Yarwood

Quote from: Rik on Sep 15, 2011, 19:03:50
Not true, Tony, I use auth-smtp when I'm travelling and using a dongle or wi fi hotspot.

Thanks for that, as a matter of interest which email client do you use?

Best regards

Tony

Rik

Outlook 2003, 2007 and 2010, Tony.
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

MisterW

Ok, I've been doing a bit of digging into Auth Smtp and I'm pretty sure that the 5.7.1 error you are getting Tony is an authentication failure.
Looks like neither Rik or myself has come across Bat before but I use Thunderbird and note that you also do use it. There is a guide here http://www.plus.net/support/email/setup/tbird3_smtp.shtml ( albeit for PlusNet ) on setting the outgoing server up for Authenticated Smtp. For Idnet you need to replace the mail server url and change the port from 25 to 587. Maybe you'd like to give that a try and see what happens.

Tony Yarwood


Tony Yarwood

Quote from: MisterW on Sep 15, 2011, 19:27:46
Ok, I've been doing a bit of digging into Auth Smtp and I'm pretty sure that the 5.7.1 error you are getting Tony is an authentication failure.
Looks like neither Rik or myself has come across Bat before but I use Thunderbird and note that you also do use it. There is a guide here http://www.plus.net/support/email/setup/tbird3_smtp.shtml ( albeit for PlusNet ) on setting the outgoing server up for Authenticated Smtp. For Idnet you need to replace the mail server url and change the port from 25 to 587. Maybe you'd like to give that a try and see what happens.

Many thanks for your time and trouble with this, I'll give it a whirl and get back to you.

Best regards

Tony

Tony Yarwood

#32
Thanks guys for your time and trouble with this, but it's going from bad to worse; I never liked the newer versions of T'bird so I stayed with 2.0.0.24. It's ever so slightly different from the one MisterW send the url on. Can't get that to post at all! VPN or no VPN.

I give up; just have to use my other accounts.

Thanks again Rik and MisterW.

Best regards

Tony

Google ain't your friend.
More privacy, no IP logging.
http://ixquick.com/

MisterW

Sorrry to hear that Tony. I'll check what version I'm using when I get home.

Rik

Hi Tony

I've had a chance to talk to support now. If it works directly, ie your IDNet connection, using auth-smtp, but fails with the VPN connection, IDNet suspect that your VPN has some restrictions on use, possibly to prevent spam being sent via their IP address. This fits, to me, with the fact that the problem only seems to trigger when you have multiple BCCs, something which is typical with spam. Why other accounts work I can't explain, of course, but it might be worth talking to your network admin.
Rik
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This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.