Slowest ever this afternoon - LLU??

[SSK]

Since about lunchtime my speeds have been about 500Kbps.
This is making the internet almost unusable.
Yesterday it was 15.2Mbps and since I moved to ADSL2+ and finished the training period several months ago it hasn't been below about 11Mbps, even at the most congested of times.

There have been no resyncs for over 360 hours and syc rate is 17.9Mbps. SNR margin (6dB) and Loop Att (24dB) have stayed the same since at least since that last resync.

Now as I was recently put on LLU and never had such slow speeds before the switch, is it likely that the problem is that the LLU at my exchange is more congested than the old BT ones? If so, I definitely want to go back to BT!!

BTW - upload speeds are normal - ie between 780 and 810 Kbps (faster than current download!)

Sean

[.Griff.]

Be have an ongoing problem with congestion on one of their internet links (BE Linx-GW2). You may be affected by that.

[SSK]

Is IDNet LLU with Be?
I thought it was with someone else.

Sean

[Rik]

It's with Telefonica, who are the parent company of Be & O2, iow you can use any of the names.

[SSK]

Be have an ongoing problem with congestion on one of their internet links (BE Linx-GW2). You may be affected by that.

Does 'ongoing' mean it's likely to keep happening?
If so, wouldn't I be better off being switch back to 21CN?

Sean

[.Griff.]

Does 'ongoing' mean it's likely to keep happening?
If so, wouldn't I be better off being switch back to 21CN?

Sean

http://beusergroup.co.uk/ For more info.

[Rik]

Yes and it depends on whether the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

[SSK]

Yes and it depends on whether the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

I can't think of many disadvantages of 21CN that would be worse than having download speeds of around 300Kbs to 500Kbs with Be...

With all its disadvantages, once the training period was over, with 21CN never got such low speeds. In fact, I thought 11Mbps was slow!

[Rik]

Give support a call/email on Monday, though the problem does seem to be set to be cleared in the next few days.

[.Griff.]

You've had low speeds for 5 hours, maybe 6? I wouldn't throw in the towel and declare LLU as hopeless just because of that.

If it's not already resolved by Monday give Idnet a call. The cause maybe something completely different to my guess.

[SSK]

Give support a call/email on Monday, though the problem does seem to be set to be cleared in the next few days.

The BE site (thanks Griff!) says "further work is scheduled for next week - this is when the issue will most likely be resolved."
A week of this will be unbearable - my online sainbury shop has had to be abandoned because it's too slow to be usable 
A further worrying point is the "most likely be resolved" bit. "Most likely" means that the problem could last much longer.

You've had low speeds for 5 hours, maybe 6? I wouldn't throw in the towel and declare LLU as hopeless just because of that.
If it's not already resolved by Monday give Idnet a call. The cause maybe something completely different to my guess.

But with 21CN I had no trouble and no slow speeds for several months. Now, within days of being switched there is this big problem. What are the advantages of LLU that might be worth keeping hold of my towel?

Sean

[pctech]

Be have an ongoing problem with congestion on one of their internet links (BE Linx-GW2). You may be affected by that.

The traffic should not be going anywhere near Telefonica's LINX peering connection Griff as it should be backhauled from the exchange kit to IDNet's Ethernet link and handed off, from there it's up to IDNet.

It could be that the kit at that exchange is congested.

[.Griff.]

What are the advantages of LLU that might be worth keeping hold of my towel?
Sean

No draconian/antiquated DLM/BRAS.
Ability to set SNR profiles.
Ability to set depth of Interleaving or turn it off.
Ability to change modulation at user end (Not sure if that applies to wholesale)

I'm sure I'll think of some more after I press the post button.

[.Griff.]

The traffic should not be going anywhere near Telefonica's LINX peering connection Griff as it should be backhauled from the exchange kit to IDNet's Ethernet link and handed off, from there it's up to IDNet.

It could be that the kit at that exchange is congested.

You could well be right Mitch. I did admit it was only a guess on my behalf.

SSK - What exchange are you on?

[Rik]

But with 21CN I had no trouble and no slow speeds for several months. Now, within days of being switched there is this big problem. What are the advantages of LLU that might be worth keeping hold of my towel?

Are you a big downloader, Sean?

[woppy101]

The BE site (thanks Griff!) says "further work is scheduled for next week - this is when the issue will most likely be resolved."
A week of this will be unbearable - my online sainbury shop has had to be abandoned because it's too slow to be usable 
A further worrying point is the "most likely be resolved" bit. "Most likely" means that the problem could last much longer.

500kbps can not be classed as unusable,I was stuck with a profile of 250kbps for a few days(which was slow yes but far from unusable unless online gaming is your life),im lucky and have a 3mb connection but a fair few af my neighbours further up the road have a perment connection of 512kbps and still get on with it(think yourself lucky you get these mega speeds,we won't get anything like that in our area until at least 2016-2018)

[pctech]

Np

I'm assuming that BE/O2 and BE Wholesale customers share the backhaul so if its popular in the area that could well be a bottleneck and as BE is still punting truly unlimited downloads it is popular with the P2P crowd.

A colleague was booted from three separate ISP's for abusing his connection by running P2P day and night.

Only place he has survived is BE and as O2 has introduced restrictions on their direct connections I expect BE direct will soon follow but it should not affect wholesale customers.

[Ardua]

Np

A colleague was booted from three separate ISP's for abusing his connection by running P2P day and night.

This is where my lack of knowledge about the Modern World comes to the surface. Why would anybody want to run P2P continuously?

[Rik]

Well, it's unlikely to be for legal material.

[SSK]

The traffic should not be going anywhere near Telefonica's LINX peering connection Griff as it should be backhauled from the exchange kit to IDNet's Ethernet link and handed off, from there it's up to IDNet.

It could be that the kit at that exchange is congested.

Congested for LLU but it wasn't congested for 21CN?

Are you a big downloader, Sean?

Varies between about 10 and about 45 Gb per month - is that big?

Sean

[.Griff.]

This is where my lack of knowledge about the Modern World comes to the surface. Why would anybody want to run P2P continuously?

To improve their seed ratio at a guess.

[pctech]

Because he downloads pirated films, TV series and software.

[Rik]

Varies between about 10 and about 45 Gb per month - is that big?

Not unduly.

[pctech]

Congested for LLU but it wasn't congested for 21CN?

Connected to different kit and a separate connection from the exchange.

Many people have jumped to LLU when its become available and its now starting to show in some areas.

[SSK]

Just done another test - download speed was 192Kbps.

Have sent an email to support asking to be shifted back to 21CN.

Sean

[pctech]

Must be really really congested there Sean.

[.Griff.]

I can soon tell you if you let me know what exchange you're on (I can check via Be support forum)

[SSK]

I can soon tell you if you let me know what exchange you're on (I can check via Be support forum)

Thanks, Griff.

Exchange name:    North Shields
Exchange code:    NENS
Location:    North Tyneside North East

Speed is now 460Mbps (about 0.03 my usual)
ping is 73ms (about double usual)

Sean

[.Griff.]

I'll go and look now Sean. It may require me to ask and therefor wait for a response.

[.Griff.]

There's no reported problems at North Shields Sean and I've also put up a post asking any other Be users if they're experiencing issues in the vicinity but no-one has reported back as yet.

If you've not already done so create a TBBQM and see if that reflects the high latency issues you're having - http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/monitors/create.html

[SSK]

Thanks, Griff, for all your efforts.

I've just registered with TBB and set up the TBBQM as you suggested.

This morning the speed was about 1Mbps with sync rate about 17Mbps and SNR margin of 6dB. Over a period of a couple of hours the speed increased a bit to about 1.5Mbps.
After a reboot of the router and now have about 10Mbps with sync rate about 12Mbps but 15dB.

Last night my speed got as low as about 190Kbps, so of course 10Mbps is quite adequate!
We will have to see what happens in peak periods.

Despite disadvantages of BT/21CN, which I was with since April, the speeds were always at least usable. For me, 190-500 Mbps isn't practically usable - apart from anything else, keep going for a cup of tea while waiting for a webpage to load puts too great a strain on my bladder!

Others may have their own views about the advantages/disadvantages of LLU and 21CN, but I've now asked to be put back on 21CN.

Thanks again. 

Sean

[SSK]

Griff,
I see the ping graph in your sig is different from the one in TBBQM graph being generated for me - eg yours has mean, max, min. Presumably you use a different tool?
Having the mean/max/min would be nice.

Sean

[esh]

Hi SSK. I haven't had congestion here, though the ping is definitely higher on LLU. It used to be about 8ms to the UBR but is now about 20ms. ADSL always seems a bit of a black box to me, so it just seems configurations that are terrible for one person are great for another. Let us know how things work out.

[.Griff.]

Griff,
I see the ping graph in your sig is different from the one in TBBQM graph being generated for me - eg yours has mean, max, min. Presumably you use a different tool?
Having the mean/max/min would be nice.

Sean

The latency monitor in my sig is courtesy of - http://f8lure.mouselike.org/

[Rik]

Hi SSK. I haven't had congestion here, though the ping is definitely higher on LLU. It used to be about 8ms to the UBR but is now about 20ms. ADSL always seems a bit of a black box to me, so it just seems configurations that are terrible for one person are great for another. Let us know how things work out.

Initially, my fast path ping was faster on the Telefonica circuit than the BT one, by about 4ms, 10ms vs 14ms. The line was not stable with that, as it hadn't been on BT, and the ping is now about 4ms greater, ie 14ms.

[SSK]

So far IDNet seem reluctant to move me back to BT.

After my first email request they asked if I really wanted to move before trying to find the problem with LLU.
I replied that I did.

After that confirmation that I wanted to move  I got a response saying:
"so we can have this investigated for you could you provide us with the results from a test completed at www.speedtester.bt.com. We will then log a case and see if there is anything that can be done to improve the service prior to moving you off LLU."

Apparently they don't even know that the bt speedtester doesn't work with LLU.
Also, what is the point of seeing if anything can be done to improve LLU when I've made it clear that I definitely want to go back to 21CN?

I've now sent a third email saying I absolutely, definitely want to move back to BT Wholesale.

[pctech]

Oh dear, someone at IDNet towers has obviously made a genuine mistake.

[Simon_idnet]

It's no porblem to move you back to BT Wholesale, we were just asking if you might want us to try to fix the fault before we did. Not to worry.

[Technical Ben]

It's easy to pick up the "petrol" pump when you just bought a diesel. We are all human. 
I'd prefer to find the fault before moving back myself. IE it could be totally unrelated. A move now could make it harder to find the real fault.

[Steve]

Especially if the fault carries over back to BT

[Simon_idnet]

After a reboot of the router and now have about 10Mbps with sync rate about 12Mbps but 15dB.

I had set the LLU Service Profile to ADSL2 (12Mbps) to see if that helped. I've now reverted it to ADSL2+ (24Mbps). Please can you reboot your router again?

[SSK]

Okay, the sync is now 19.3 Mbps and the download throughput is 16.3 Mbps. Ping average is 20.1 msec, max ping is 38 msec.
Obviously, more than just satisfactory! 
(It is also better than I had with BT Wholesale)

Because of what happened at the weekend (190-500Kbps for several hours) and the fact that it happened only after the switch to LLU, there is still the concern that it might be due to BE congestion at peak periods and might happen again. If it was due to congestion then BT is prefered because a reliable constant 12 Mbps all the time is better (IMO) than 16 Mbps on weekdays wirh 500Kbps (or less) at weekends.

As an aside...
In response to my request to move back to BT Wholesale, this morning I was sent a migration code.
1) I never asked for a migration code.
2) How can there be a migration code if the line is still LLU?

Sean

[Technical Ben]

Ask/Wait for a reply. It might be the old system sending out requests when applied to the new system.
For example, the old system was to send out mac codes when ever one was requested. As your moving internally, it might just be the old system is sending you the mac code meant for IDNet's internal team. At a guess anyhow. They should be able to clarify soon.

[Simon_idnet]

A MAC code is used to migrate from BT Wholesale to LLU and also in reverse. Would you like us to use that MAC code for you on your behalf or, now that your line appears to have stabilised, would you like to monitor it on the Telefonica Wholesale platform for a day or two?

[SSK]

A MAC code is used to migrate from BT Wholesale to LLU and also in reverse. Would you like us to use that MAC code for you on your behalf or, now that your line appears to have stabilised, would you like to monitor it on the Telefonica Wholesale platform for a day or two?

Thanks, Simon, for the explanation.
My misunderstanding was that a MAC could be used only from one BT Wholesale ISP to another BT Wholesale ISP. I thought (obviously wrongly!) that it could not be used for LLU.

One test of an ISP support team is how well it deals with difficult customers. I don't mean difficult as in aggressive and abusive (which should not be tolerated) but difficult as in those like me who are quite demanding and critical even though they have little technical knowledge. During the last few days dealing with me the IDNet support team have passed that test.  I apologise for the hassle my impatience has caused.

Since you reset my line to ADSL2+ my connection has remained solid and download speeds have remained pretty constant at about 16.3 Mbps.  So I would like to remain on the Telefonica Wholesale platform and monitor its performance, at least for a few more days, to see if the current performance is maintained, especially through busy weekend times.

Thank you

Sean

[Technical Ben]

Glad to hear it's sorted SSK.

I think we can all "test" the systems at times. I wonder if I could get paid for official testing.

[Simon_idnet]

One test of an ISP support team is how well it deals with difficult customers. I don't mean difficult as in aggressive and abusive (which should not be tolerated) but difficult as in those like me who are quite demanding and critical even though they have little technical knowledge. During the last few days dealing with me the IDNet support team have passed that test.  I apologise for the hassle my impatience has caused.

Thank you for your kind words Sean.

[SSK]

Just in case anyone is interested...
The connection is still solid with speeds steady just over 16.3 Mbps.

Attached is a graph of speeds before and after the problem.
The connection was steady for weeks at about 15Mbps, then on Sat late morning dropped down to about 500Kbps (as low as 190Kbps) until early Sunday. Looking at the sudden big drop, maybe my dismay was understandable?

You can see where Simon put me on ADSL2 (graph jumps up to about 10Mbps) on the Sunday and then to ADSL2+ (late Sun/early Mon?), when it jumps up to 16.3Mbps, where it has remained since (fingers crossed!).

[Lance]

Good to hear it is still working well