Which Linux

sobranie · Nov 02, 2011, 13:56:37

Have a spare laptop. Thought I'd reformat it and try out Linux again.
Fat chance, the ubuntu/linux sites are so bloated it's virtually impossible
to fathom out where and what the downloads are.
Anyone care to point me in the right direction please?

.Griff. · Nov 02, 2011, 15:09:04

For an easy introduction to Linux I recommend Linux Mint (which is based on Ubuntu) - http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php

MisterW · Nov 02, 2011, 17:25:16

I'll second that. I actually use Ubuntu but Mint is functionally similar and is more appropriate for the novice these days.

D-Dan · Nov 03, 2011, 12:42:06

A 3rd recommendation for Mint for a new user. Though check which version you download, you want the main Mints distro, and not one that ends in "E" (e.g. LMDE) which are alternative distros and are likely to have a Debian base rather than an Ubuntu base, which is more difficult for a new user. If you do decide to go with Mint, I also heartilly recommend joining the Mint forums, which are a great source of help, and where you don't find any of the elitist attitude that plagues some other Linux forums. In fact, the Mint forums is one of the friendliest I know. Say "Hello" if you do (I'm "Roken" over there).

JB · Nov 03, 2011, 17:24:05

Another vote for Linux Mint.

I even dual boot on my main machine between Win7 and Mint. I always boot into Mint to carry out banking and other transactions that require security. (Hope I'm right!!).

sobranie · Nov 03, 2011, 22:30:05

Thanks for all replies. I've noted all suggestions and will proceed in the next week.

Rik · Nov 04, 2011, 10:41:34

In an orderly manner, I trust, Rick.

sobranie · Nov 04, 2011, 20:25:03

Quote from: Rik on Nov 04, 2011, 10:41:34
In an orderly manner, I trust, Rick.

That'll be a 1st Rik.

Rik · Nov 05, 2011, 11:35:59

titan · Dec 04, 2011, 18:04:30

Quote from: sobranie on Nov 02, 2011, 13:56:37
Have a spare laptop. Thought I'd reformat it and try out Linux again.
Fat chance, the ubuntu/linux sites are so bloated it's virtually impossible
to fathom out where and what the downloads are.
Anyone care to point me in the right direction please?

Forget Ubuntu or any of it's clones. It originally started out as a distro for Windows refugees and made things really simple. Unfortunately recently it has taken to being cutting edge and alienated a lot of it's long term users who now seem to have taken a shine to Mint as it has retained the Gnome desktop. Mint do a Debian version which would be a good choice, however my suggestion would be to start using Linux with the freedom it is supposed to have and install Debian. It is simple, you can have a choice of desktop Gnome, KDE, Xfce, lxde and plenty of others. There are also a couple of other good alternatives like Fedora or Suse which are very good mainstrean distros and then there are the hundreds of others. The top 100 are shown here http://distrowatch.com/

Steve · Dec 04, 2011, 18:17:03

Titan

Coincidentally I was reading this just earlier

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/desktop-os/2011/12/04/ten-lessons-linux-rookies-need-to-learn-40094561/#top

Lance · Dec 04, 2011, 18:30:54

Welcome to the forum, Titan!

Rik · Dec 04, 2011, 18:32:30

We welcome all refugees from Windows.

D-Dan · Dec 05, 2011, 00:39:25

Quote from: Steve on Dec 04, 2011, 18:17:03
Titan

Coincidentally I was reading this just earlier

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/desktop-os/2011/12/04/ten-lessons-linux-rookies-need-to-learn-40094561/#top

That is a rather good "10 things", though I disagree with one almost in its' entirety and another partially. In particular, I disagree that a new user will "never" have to use the command line, though not because it's necessary to know (and I agree that a Linux system can operate quite happily without any exposure to the command line), but more because if and when you do hit a problem and seek help, you will likely be directed to the terminal to fix it. This is not because you are expected to become an expert, but more because it provides a common environment in which to work (the helper and the helpee both have access to the same tools and the same environment, independent of the desktop) but also because it's a damn sight easier to fix problems that way.

It shouldn't be a deal breaker though. By and large, most linux helpers will tell you exactly what to type (or cut and paste as is more common), but will also tell you what it is you are doing and why. I know that I try to explain reasons and consequences rather than just dictate. Once the problem is fixed, you go back to the familiar GUI, but on the way you have learned a little something that may help directly in the future, or has at the very least shown you that the terminal is not something to be feared.

One day, you may finish up like me where you choose the GUI or the terminal to do something, and will make your choice depending on the efficiency that you want to work with. Windows is no different. Want to copy a file from one place to another, fine. Either double click "My Computer" - navigate to your source file. Repeat but navigate to your destination, drag and drop from one to the other and wait while the Windows GUI slowly finishes it's work, or open a cmd window and type "copy path/to/fileA to path/to/fileB" and see it happen much faster.

Linux offers a different way of working, but at the end of the day it's more efficient, less prone to infection, easier to fix in a crisis, and will do everything your Windows box will do. Oh, and it won't cost you a penny extra to try it

titan · Dec 05, 2011, 09:56:37

Thanks for my Karma , I have never had them before

I have been with Idnet for nearly five years, I thought I had posted here before but maybe not. I just called in to see why I had an outage Saturday but couldn't see any information from Idnet. Getting back to Linux, I just don't know why there are not more desktop users, I don't think it is Linux itself as millions use Android on smartphones and pads, maybe they just stick with the devil they know. Interestingly when KDE 4 was being trialled in Germany a lot of users thought it was Win 7. A successful move to Linux requires a certain amount of application, there is a learning curve and basic terminal knowledge is essential in my opinion and any article suggesting otherwise is not being realistic. I think this is where a lot of first time users dipping their toe into the Linux world give up. You only have to look at any Linux forum and the fix for most problems is via the terminal

Technical Ben · Dec 05, 2011, 10:13:51

Quote from: D-Dan on Dec 05, 2011, 00:39:25
That is a rather good "10 things", though I disagree with one almost in its' entirety and another partially. In particular, I disagree that a new user will "never" have to use the command line, though not because it's necessary to know (and I agree that a Linux system can operate quite happily without any exposure to the command line), but more because if and when you do hit a problem and seek help, you will likely be directed to the terminal to fix it. This is not because you are expected to become an expert, but more because it provides a common environment in which to work (the helper and the helpee both have access to the same tools and the same environment, independent of the desktop) but also because it's a damn sight easier to fix problems that way.

It shouldn't be a deal breaker though. By and large, most linux helpers will tell you exactly what to type (or cut and paste as is more common), but will also tell you what it is you are doing and why. I know that I try to explain reasons and consequences rather than just dictate. Once the problem is fixed, you go back to the familiar GUI, but on the way you have learned a little something that may help directly in the future, or has at the very least shown you that the terminal is not something to be feared.

One day, you may finish up like me where you choose the GUI or the terminal to do something, and will make your choice depending on the efficiency that you want to work with. Windows is no different. Want to copy a file from one place to another, fine. Either double click "My Computer" - navigate to your source file. Repeat but navigate to your destination, drag and drop from one to the other and wait while the Windows GUI slowly finishes it's work, or open a cmd window and type "copy path/to/fileA to path/to/fileB" and see it happen much faster.

Linux offers a different way of working, but at the end of the day it's more efficient, less prone to infection, easier to fix in a crisis, and will do everything your Windows box will do. Oh, and it won't cost you a penny extra to try it

Just be careful. Unlike Windows, cutting and pasting commands could delete your HDD! :Ohttp://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Malicious_Linux_Commands

For example, the Forkbomb looks like some smiley faces. I can just imagine "type in smiley faces, and see what happens."

D-Dan · Dec 05, 2011, 12:49:16

Quote from: Technical Ben on Dec 05, 2011, 10:13:51
Just be careful. Unlike Windows, cutting and pasting commands could delete your HDD! :Ohttp://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Malicious_Linux_Commands

For example, the Forkbomb looks like some smiley faces. I can just imagine "type in smiley faces, and see what happens."

Not exactly "Unlike Windows". A Windows forkbomb can be created using just 5 characters, rather than the 13 it takes on 'nix

Technical Ben · Dec 05, 2011, 13:48:28

Like:
10
20 Goto 10

null0 · Dec 21, 2011, 00:03:21

If you are looking to use an old machine I would recommend a lightweight distro such as PuppyLinux or Crunchbang, I prefer the latter. On newer hardware I would go with Mint or Ubuntu if you're a new user. You can revert to Gnome in ubuntu by selecting 'classic' at the login screen.

If you're feeling adventurous and like living on the bleeding edge try Fedora..

Simon · Dec 21, 2011, 00:18:28

I have enough trouble with bleeding Windows!

Rik · Dec 21, 2011, 09:20:17

Take them to a doctor then.

D-Dan · Dec 21, 2011, 13:01:58

Quote from: null0 on Dec 21, 2011, 00:03:21
If you are looking to use an old machine I would recommend a lightweight distro such as PuppyLinux or Crunchbang, I prefer the latter. On newer hardware I would go with Mint or Ubuntu if you're a new user. You can revert to Gnome in ubuntu by selecting 'classic' at the login screen.

Not entirely true. The Gnome 3 fallback mode, whilst making progress, isn't yet at a stage where it will provide a completely familiar environment for Gnome 2 lovers. In fact, in my opinion, xfce 4.8 has more in common with Gnome 2 than Gnome 3 fallback does. The downside of xfce is that for the new user, whilst it's certainly as configurable as Gnome 2, the pretty GUI preferences programs are just not there for xfce, and it's necessary to start manually editing files to have it behave how you want.

I would generally recommend that a complete Linux novice start their journey with either Gnome 3 (If the are coming from a tablet based system), Gnome 2 or kde if they are coming from a Windows system, and take your pick if your are migrating from MacOS, and the reasons are simple. It's far easier to get support on Gnome or kde desktops than on others (though xfce is gaining popularity at a rate of knots since the "upgrade" to Gnome 3. As development continues it's likely that Gnome 3 will provide a more robust traditional DE, but it's simply not there yet. The exception to the rule is Mint 12, which includes several extensions to Gnome 3 developed for Mint to make it more traditional, hence my reason for sticking with my original agreement with Mint as a first exposure.

I quite agree that Debian is the more free option (NOT as in beer -it's all free as in beer), I use it on a day to day basis, and I triple boot between Debian, Windows 7 and Linux From Scratch (a built from source custom distro, made by me

) and the reasons are simple. I still need Windows ocassionally (maybe once every couple of weeks, y'know, to update AV, anti-malware, firewall etc.), and I have taken a dislike to pre-built distros. I'd rather decide which packages to use and install from the outset than have to start tweaking a pre-built system. This is almost definitely not an approach for a Linux newcomer to be taking, though. Better to get used to the way Linux works, dependencies, configuration etc. before embarking on a custom build.

My other reason for supporting Mint as a newcomer distro is that the Mint forums are second to none in my opinion for helpfulness and friendliness. On both the Debian and the Ubuntu forums there are several regular posters who clearly fall into the "elitist" category and are more a hindrance than a help. I haven't seen this once on the Mint forums, so a newcomer will have a friendly place to go for help and advice.

jeremybennett · Dec 23, 2011, 09:22:10

What do you want from this laptop?

If you want it for Windows like office stuff, then Ubuntu has its merits, although the Ubuntu One desktop on the latest versions is awful and will kill an old laptop. Consider the lightweight Xubuntu variant instead, which uses the xfce desktop mentioned above.

If you want to play at the bleeding edge, try Fedora. Personally I quite like the Gnome 3 desktop, but at least you have the fallback of the classic variant. I also like the Fedora Electronics Lab, which is a collection of tools for electronics design - but that's just a personal interest.

If you just want to try things out, any of the modern distributions offer a Live CD/DVD which you can run without installing. Indeed, like many engineers I carry around a Knoppix CD, which is particularly designed for this, and allows me to boot Linux on any random machine. Particularly useful when fixing broken Windows machines!

Finally, I haven't tried Linux Mint, but following the rave reviews here and elsewhere, I am minded to try it out as soon as possible.

HTH,

Jeremy

davej99 · Dec 29, 2011, 09:52:27

Decided to try linux on a 6 year old laptop a year ago. As a 100% Windows user I found Mint 10 to be very easy and intuitive. Does not seem to need any prior knowledge. Downloaded the iso and burned a live cd, which boots up into a demo and provides an install option. In my case all but the wireless card drivers were found. An additional commercially derived video card driver was offered. Distro included open office. Codecs were installed and basic players all worked. Easy to see where to get additional software, manage packages and get a feel of how linux works. No command line was needed to get going and not much since, except to get wireless firmware installed.

Found Mint 11 to be just as good and provided LibreOffice and DuckDuckGo Search.

Tried Mint 12 and could not get it to work at all on my old laptop, which could not deal with graphic rendering of new Gnome3/MGSE/MATE desktop, or what ever it is. Worked OK on a 3 year old laptop, but could not see any benefit from new desktop which seemed to fix what was not broken and was neither fish nor fowl. Maybe later versions will be better, when its finished. But right now, were I a very new user, I would be very confused if this was my first toe dip. Suggest stay with 11 for now.

Strangely equivalent ubuntu release worked on my old lap top, but I could not see benefit of Gnome3 desktop. Seems more tablet than traditional, but then I don't know what I am talking about, being no fan of the smart phone or tablet PC, which seem like pointless toys, though I thought that about Windows 1 & 2 in the 80s, especially at the time compared to DOS and MAC.

Apologies to linux gurus for my novice ramblings, but I speak as I find, though my little knowlege is probably dangerous.