Steve Jobs TV programme

[Najarak]

In case anybody hasn't noticed, there is a programme on Channel 4 at 11:05 tonight about Jobs "iChanged the World"

The story of the extraordinary life of one of America's most successful innovators and entrepreneurs: from college drop-out to one of the wealthiest men in the world.

Through interviews with the people who Steve Jobs knew and who worked closely with him over the years, Steve Jobs: iChanged the World takes an unflinching look at his difficult, controlling reputation, and offers a unique insight into what made him tick.

In a never-before-broadcast, rare interview, Steve Jobs expounds his own philosophy of life, and offers advice to us all on changing our own lives to achieve our ambitions, our desires and our dreams. Steve looked back over his astonishing career and explained the principles on which he built his success.

See http://www.channel4.com/programmes/steve-jobs-ichanged-the-world/episode-guide/series-1/episode-1

[Simon]

That will be interesting, and I hadn't noticed.  Thanks. 

[Rik]

Indeed.

[Steve]

Thanks iBetter record it, it's past iBedtime

[Rik]

It's just right for my iNsomnia time.

[Bill]

I was hoping for an early night too, so the PVR is set in case I manage to get it!

[pctech]

My PVR is now set too.

[Niall]

iwontbewatching

[pctech]

Watched it and confirmed what I always thought.

He was a self important idiot who litereally used and abused people.

It also convinced me a lot of the Apple diehards are the same, a good example of this was when Bill Gates sunk $150 million to save the company which was dying on its ass and was introduced as an investor via a live video link.

The audience didn't have the good grace to stay silent and they booed loudly, that says everything as far as I am concerned.

Gates has used his wealth to help others, Jobs never did.

IMO Gates is worth 10 of Steve Jobs.

[Tacitus]

Watched it and confirmed what I always thought.

Always good to be objective....

Gates has used his wealth to help others......

And makes sure he issues a bunch of press releases when he does it, just in case you don't notice.

As human beings, I don't rate either of them highly.  Like most who've achieved much in life they are/were flawed personalities,  although Gates does do better PR.

[pctech]

Always good to be objective....

Most Apple users do seem to think they are holier than thou

And makes sure he issues a bunch of press releases when he does it, just in case you don't notice.

As human beings, I don't rate either of them highly.  Like most who've achieved much in life they are/were flawed personalities,  although Gates does do better PR.

'tis true but doing it is better than doing nothing and at least he and Warren Buffett had the thought to do it.

[Rik]

Most Apple users do seem to think they are holier than thou

They're enthusiastic about the brand, Mitch, but I wouldn't define them as holier than thou. If enthusiasm can be described thus, then many 'Netters are holier than thou when it comes to IDNet.

[.Griff.]

I have to agree with Mitch. I've plenty of friends who are enthusiastic about Linux or AMD or Intel but almost without fail all the Apple users I've met aren't enthusiastic they're bordering on arrogant and looks down their noses at you of you don't share their opinion on Apple.

I'm not saying they're all like that but those that were almost had this cult mentality about them.

[pctech]

I'm definitely not saying all Apple users are like that but a good proportion are.

I am loyal to the companies I buy services from such as O2 for mobile phone service, Zen for internet, Netcetera for mail hosting because they provide excellent service at a price I'm happy with but that's not to say other companies aren't as good and I certainly don't look down my nose at peeople that use other companies.

BTW I'm likely to be moving my main line back to IDNet next September when my contract expires as the move to BT has proven to be a bit of a false economy.

[Simon]

But IDNet use Macs, Mitch.  Surely you wouldn't sully yourself by association? 

[pctech]

TBH Simon, I use whatever piece of kit does whatever job best, I don't really care all that much and the people at IDNet seem to be a cracking bunch.

[Tacitus]

They're enthusiastic about the brand, Mitch, but I wouldn't define them as holier than thou. If enthusiasm can be described thus, then many 'Netters are holier than thou when it comes to IDNet.

I think that's about right Rik.  In my experience it's not that most Apple users are holier than thou, it's that a lot of PC users think Apple users think they're holier than thou and then start baiting them.  For whatever reason they made a different choice that's all.  For me it was nothing to do with posing in Starbucks and everything to do with Apple stuff giving me infinitely less aggro than PCs, although to be fair Windows 8 may prove to be very good.

I don't frequent PC sites but I'd be interested to know if Apple fans turn up in droves to tell the PC brigade they're a bunch of plonkers    No doubt some do, but I'd be surprised if there were large numbers of them.

[Simon]

For people who just want it to work, Apple can't be beaten.  People who want to tinker should stick to Windows, IMO. 

[pctech]

But it doesn't always just work Simon, that particular drum has a gaping hole in it.

[Rik]

For people who just want it to work, Apple can't be beaten.  People who want to tinker should stick to Windows, IMO. 

Or Linux. 

[pctech]

Indeed Rik.

[Steve]

I've not seen the program so my comments are unqualified I am however a Mac user after many years a Windows user.  Yet again we witness the same oft repeated anti Apple diatribe from one individual which in my opinion makes his comments on the program of little or no value.

[Lance]

But it doesn't always just work Simon,

You'll note that Simon didn't say always. Anybody would be very foolish to say any slightly complex bit of computer equipment would 'always' just work. The point Simon was making is that for the majority of standard users, Apple equipment works out the box without requiring tinkering to get it to play nicely. This isn't saying that standard users can't just use Windows/Android out the box, but I think its fair to say that these both require more work to get them working optimally for the user.

[Lance]

I've not seen the program so my comments are unqualified I am however a Mac user after many years a Windows user.  Yet again we witness the same oft repeated anti Apple diatribe from one individual which in my opinion makes his comments on the program of little or no value.

But Steve, he has said he is getting an iphone (note the use of 'when', not 'if')!

Ah well, least when I buy a new iPhone it will be preinstalled.

[Rik]

You'll note that Simon didn't say always. Anybody would be very foolish to say any slightly complex bit of computer equipment would 'always' just work. The point Simon was making is that for the majority of standard users, Apple equipment works out the box without requiring tinkering to get it to play nicely. This isn't saying that standard users can't just use Windows/Android out the box, but I think its fair to say that these both require more work to get them working optimally for the user.

I don't have an iPhone - any smartphone really wouldn't make much sense for me - but I did choose to go with an iPod when I wanted an MP3 player. Partly, my decision was based on design, partly on features and partly on 3rd-party support, eg docking stations. The iPod works the way I want it to, and I don't regret the decision. To me, forget about brands, look at what will work best for you. The rest is just marketing hype.

[Simon]

Lance has summed up my meaning perfectly. 

Mitch, what was the last Apple device you used for any length of time?  Applogies if this is wrong, but I don't recall you saying on here that you've used one, and as such many of the statements you make are without experience of the products.  I have used Android, BlackBerry, Windows and Symbian 'smart' phones, and I can say from experience that the iPhone is the most intuitive, and easiest to set up out of the box, which is what many people want.  That's not saying there aren't some frustrations for users who want to customise, and that every aspect of the iPhone is perfect, but it's bloody close. 

[pctech]

I've not seen the program so my comments are unqualified I am however a Mac user after many years a Windows user.  Yet again we witness the same oft repeated anti Apple diatribe from one individual which in my opinion makes his comments on the program of little or no value.

Spoken like a true Apple follower, watch the programme and think about your answer, you will find that it proves my point.

My criticism is never levelled at the products, it is at the attitude of the Apple staff and device owners who think that Apple can do no wrong and flatly deny that problems exist even when confronted with evidence or a straightforward request for information to enable me to support such users effectively, I treat the issue objectively, it appears some on this forum do not, perhaps responses such as that are why some people have stopped posting?

[Lona]

I don't own and Iphone or an Ipad. What I do own is an Nano 6th generation and I bought it on the service I have had with the very first Ipod shuffle I bought which is no longer available.

My little ipod shuffle still plays today and has been well used. On the other hand the Nano gives nothing but problems.  The battery is forever needing charged. It frequently needs restored to factory settings as it keeps switching itself off.

I've always said the more gadgets you have on a product the more problems you develope.  The little shuffle only played music and has never let me down.

[Bill]

...why some people have stopped posting?

I can think of other reasons

[Steve]

Mitch , may I remind you of your recent comment on the iPhone 4S

http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,27379.msg651942.html#msg651942

"Maybe the iPhone 4S is just overpriced cr*p?"

[lozcart]

I don't frequent PC sites but I'd be interested to know if Apple fans turn up in droves to tell the PC brigade they're a bunch of plonkers    No doubt some do, but I'd be surprised if there were large numbers of them.

I have to agree with Tacitus, a lot of topics in the Mac section seem to get hijacked by certain PC users slagging off Apple or their users, I don't see the reverse happing in the PC section of the forum.

[Tacitus]

The iPod works the way I want it to, and I don't regret the decision. To me, forget about brands, look at what will work best for you. The rest is just marketing hype.

Substitute 'Apple Computers' for iPod and that sums up my attitude.  In the end you go by your own experience; mine have been very positive.  YMMV of course.

What I do find irritating is the idea that because people make different choices they must belong to some sort of cult.  Or they're brainwashed idiots with more money than sense.  Looking around the coffee bar at the Uni, there's been a massive increase in the numbers of Macs.  Possibly a fashion thing amongst the young, but go over to CompSci and you'll find loads of them amongst the staff and students.  Obviously they must be simple minded idiots because they're using Macs, despite the fact that Unix CLI stuff runs through their veins and they're all quite capable of building their own machines and installing any flavour of Windows, BSD or the latest flavour of Debian or RedHat.

I think all this anti-Apple stuff is one of the mysteries of our time.  Are they perfect?  Of course not, but given the increasing numbers of people buying Apple stuff they must be doing something right.

[Steve]

I have to agree with Tacitus, a lot of topics in the Mac section seem to get hijacked by certain PC users slagging off Apple or their users, I don't see the reverse happing in the PC section of the forum.

I agree entirely, it certainly does not encourage anyone to post or discuss, when they know full well that they are potentially opening themselves up to ridicule and criticism.

[zappaDPJ]

I encounter platform politics and prejudices almost everyday on the web. PC vs Apple, Intel vs AMD, NVIDIA vs ATI, Windows vs Unix, Internet Explorer vs Firefox, the list is endless. While there's nothing wrong with being passionate about a product, the fact still remains that you have choices. The ability to choose in a competitive market is what helps makes your preference affordable and leading edge.

Personally I always choose what best suits my needs at the time and for the future and I really don't care which brand it is. That's probably why I use all the products mentioned above and I think I'm better off for it. Sometimes there's no shame in batting for both sides

[Niall]

I have to say that Apple users, some not all, do have a tendency to read straightforward comments about Apple and suddenly see red. If you look through the numerous threads on these boards you'll spot the same people doing their nut over general comments. It does swing both ways too, I hasten to add.

The whole fan boy thing annoys the cr*p out of me. As you'll know from my other posts, I HATE Apple and how they operate, but I've got a 3GS (which I don't like) and have just upgraded to the 4S, simply because it's easier and the S3 isn't out, and it saves me from losing apps I've paid for and use (my ukulele master is ace ).

I always have been and always will be totally baffled why people have this insane fanaticism regarding ANY brand. I have a friend that I've got nothing but respect for (he's a massive nerd like me ) and he is borderline fanatical about Apple. He's been following them since waaaaay before the stupid trendy adverts made them popular! Every time I meet up with him and another mate, I get there 10 minutes late and they're both arguing about which smart phone is better

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; if Apple made their products cheaper I wouldn't think twice about using them. Their attitude towards other companies and the blatant disregard they see for people and the legal system angers me immensely. The whole system is completely broken when it comes to the joke that is the law, but that's another issue! Still, their products are generally quite good, but way over priced when directly compared to a system you can build yourself.

If anyone wants to buy me the top end Apple laptop, I'd touch your happy place