German court confirms ADSL modems are PCs

davej99 · Nov 12, 2011, 16:50:45

Thinking about running alternative modem code, for example to reveal BT FTTC error rates, I thought this was an interesting development.

"ADSL modems are PCs, ruled the Regional Court of Berlin last Tuesday, and their owners can do with it whatever they like." http://news.techeye.net/business/german-court-confirms-adsl-router-is-a-computer-like-any-other

The ruling is in relation to the Fritzbox, but why not BT/Sky products in due course?

sobranie · Nov 12, 2011, 16:59:47

So the theoretical conclusion could possibly be the 'free viewing' of bbc/itv progs within the UK without the purchase of a license!!!
Bag of worms alert!!!!!!

Technical Ben · Nov 12, 2011, 20:24:32

But it's the same with your PC. You can do whatever you like to it, except hack the software covered by copyright or patents etc.

So, as long as you don't take any information off the box that is illegal, or hack any payment/processing methods then it's ok. Still a massive head ache for BT and Sky as they now have to look at catching those who do hack it to avoid fees, instead of just telling everyone "no".

sobranie · Nov 12, 2011, 20:50:36

Am confused I think!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/5081350.stm

Technical Ben · Nov 13, 2011, 07:54:56

Your allowed to use the pc/software but not watch the tv. Like being allowed to own cigs, but not smoke in public places.

Steve · Nov 13, 2011, 08:04:56

The software on this modem is based on Linux code i.e. Open source. The source code should be available for study,change and improvement. Indeed any improvements should be fed back to the wider community.

Technical Ben · Nov 13, 2011, 08:26:07

Oh, but that's where BT can stop you. You can't change the way it communicates with the exchange. I would guess the ruling only means BT cannot lock you out of your own property. Plus I don't think BT would be interested if Steven Hawkins gave them advice on better code/systems/laws of physics.

Glenn · Nov 13, 2011, 09:56:05

Does this ruling only apply in Germany, or is it EU wide?

mervl · Nov 13, 2011, 12:00:09

No direct applicability in Britain, might be of some persuasive force if it concerned interpretation of EU law, but I suspect it's a matter of contractual software licensing i.e. the commercial use of Linux (in modems) is subject to a commercial licence which reflect its Open-Source objectives to allow modification. AVM terms breached the terms of that licence which seems what the case was about.

BTOR seem to supply hobbled Huawei modems: the differences are that the modem remains BT property (unlike when you buy a Fritz!Box, the ownership passes to the buyer). So to me it seems a bit more complicated: if say you get your service from IDNet you have no contract with BT, but the use of Linux is presumably subject to the same licensing. The additional issue in the UK might be whether there is actionable "damage" to the modem as BT's property.

The benefit only seems to me to apply though when it's purely a question of acquiring information from the modem; modifying software to obtain a pecuniary advantage by deception (e.g. to avoid paying the proper rate for a service supplied under a contract) or the ultimate user not complying with licensing terms is liable to a criminal or civil sanction.

davej99 · Nov 13, 2011, 13:45:28

In my original post I was not thinking of using modified modem firmware for unlawful purposes, for example to obtain broadband access or copyright protected material, but rather of obtaining useful information from an FTTC modem, such as error rates, by adding the appropriate code, provided this does not cause damage.

The question is, if this ruling could be established Europe-wide, could BT prevent the use of lawfully modified open source code, for example, to obtain information relevant to the service BT are providing, especially when withholding that information hides the quality of service provided. The general principle of this ruling seems to be that BT may be able to apply contractual terms to the physical modem and its use, but they may not be able to apply them to the open source code it contains, provided that code is modified and used lawfully and does not cause damage to BT, supposing that damage does not include embarrassment.

Steve · Nov 13, 2011, 14:24:51

I think the iPhone jailbreak scenario is probably similar in UK law.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2010-07/28/investigation-is-it-legal-to-jailbreak-a-uk-iphone

Either way the warranty is probably voided.