Issues providing broadband service.

[ReD_uk]

How do,

I wish I had a more positive topic for my first post on this forum but sadly I've run out of ideas of what to try, so apologies in advance for what is likely to be a long post that is part rant, part appeal for help.

Firstly, I'll give a bit of background on my ongoing broadband saga. I recently moved into a village called Charlton Down in Dorset and decided to take out a broadband package. First I tried Sky who after a lot of messing me around and constantly moving deadlines stated it was not financially viable to provide this service to me and cancelled my contract. I thought this was rather odd as I thought if they could (and did) provide me with a phone service surely broadband couldn't be that much different? My next step was to try BT, seeing as all the local hardware is theirs I thought they would be more suited to providing me with both phone and broadband services. Instead, I encountered nothing but continually missed deadlines and false promises so I chose to cancel the order and try IDNet as they were recommended to me. At this point the whole ordeal had been dragging on for 2 months.

So on the 21st of October I placed an order with IDNet and attempted to explain the situation over the phone regarding the previous orders and continued delays. Whether this was noted down I can't say, but it certainly appears that it was ignored from the start. Once again I encountered the same problems as before; reasons for delays included copper overlay needed, exchange side issues etc. etc. None of which seemed to make any sense to me. To help clear up my confusion I stopped a very helpful Openreach engineer on the side of the road one day and asked him what exchange issues had been ongoing at the Dorchester exchange for the past 2 months. He stated there were no such issues and was as confused as I was about the list of reasons Id been given for delays from all 3 companies I'd tried. That was until I mentioned the village where I lived and then it all became clear to him. He explained that how broadband services are actually provided to Charlton Down is rather unique. As it turns out this hardware setup exists in only 2 places in the UK; here and a small place near Aberdeen.

The Openreach engineer explained that Charlton Down has fibre-optic as far as the roadside cabinets then copper to the individual property so the conventional method of providing ADSL doesn't work here, hence the use of DSLAMs in the cabinets with backhaul(?) to the exchange. So essentially the internal systems used between ISPs and BT wholesale don't realise this as they are setup to deal with what is considered the norm. This results in incorrectly identified problems such as 'copper overlay needed' being sent back causing order delays. He stated that all I need to do is tell my ISP of this rather unique local hardware and have them pass this on, along with the fact 'exchange side' work that they will attempt to carry out at Dorchester exchange is actually required to be carried out in Charlton Down at the local cabinets.

Brilliant I thought, all the problems to date now make more sense so all I need to do is let IDNet staff know this and problem solved. Sadly, this hasn't been the case either. Whether rightly or wrongly I can't help but feel that any attempt I make to explain the situation is completely ignored, with IDNet just quoting what BT Wholesale have told them. But if BT Wholesale requires the same information I've provided and that isn't being passed on to them what can I do?

So I've been with IDNet close to a month now and it feels like I'm still no closer to having broadband than 3 months ago when I first moved in. My last resort is to write this post and ask for help from anyone who has had similar problems, or can suggest how I next proceed. At this point I will try anything and everything so all comments are welcome (excluding those that involve moving to somewhere else )

Thanks,
Simon

[jameshurrell]

This might be of some interest:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/2379-bt-in-fibre-to-the-street-cabinet-trials.html - not that it resolves your problem. Might be of use to pass on to IDNet - also might be worth mentioning that TPON is in existence at this locality. I don't know much about it, but it would appear that this is why you are getting nowhere. I was under the impression that TPON customers would get a copper overlay if it was financially viable, but apart from that, I don't know any more.

Also have a read of this: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/btsupplier/3611635-how-will-21cn-address-tpon.html?fpart=all&vc=1 Things don't look good...

Also what does this say for your phone number?:

http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome

[Simon]

  Simon.

I'm not one to offer technical help, but I'm sure someone who can will be along soon.

[Rik]

Hi Simon and welcome to the forum.

You do, indeed have TPON on the line, and the BT seem unwilling to remove it. They requested IDNet to cancel and re-submit the order on November 8, and this has been done. I should have more details of events since that date later this afternoon, but I can tell you that the person dealing with your order does not let go once he's got his teeth into BT, and if anyone can resolve the problem, he will.

[Ray]

 

[.Griff.]

 

[Rik]

Hi Simon

I've just got the details of the problem. In the past BT Wholesale would arrange for removal of TPON when an ADSL order was lace. Openreach, however, have changed the rules and only your phone line supplier can now arrange this. As yet, IDNet is not your supplier, so they have been unable to do anything - I understand that you are aware of this? Your line transfers to IDNet on November 16, at which point they can, officially, talk to Openreach about the issue. This takes up to five working days to get a response. To try and speed things up, Brian has submitted an early request, hoping that they don't get to it until Wednesday.

It's unfortunate, but any ISP would be in BT's hands at this point - and that includes BT themselves.

[ReD_uk]

Thank you all for the warm welcome.

Those links made interesting reading James so thank you for that. The dsl checker also has a note at the bottom stating "Our records indicate that BT has supplied service to this number using a special fibre. This explains why the checker has returned this marginal result. If you still wish to order then please note the order will be delayed until a site survey has been carried out to see if service can be provided."

Thanks for the update Rik, the one thing I have no complaints about so far is how Brian has handled badgering for information etc. even if I haven't always liked the answers he's given (through no fault of his own mind). Yes I remember Brian mentioned about the phone line provider having the next action, I think there was some confusion on my part as BT had already informed me they were changing it over to IDNet and I had received an invoice for the phone line from IDNet so I had assumed they were classed as my provider at that point in time but this is now clear. Before writing this post I hadn't connected the dots that this meant no work can be requested until the 16Th when IDNet officially provide my phone.

Here's hoping everything can progress as of Wednesday. I am curious about what potential outcomes of the request to openreach are? I.e. after the 5 days what should then happen in terms of further work by them or what potential problems may occur after the 5 days? (the last one is rather pessimistic but I don't dare get my hopes up just yet)

As always, any and all information is welcome.
Cheers,
Simon

[Technical Ben]

Great to hear things are on the mend. It's sad that the back-haul (BT) are close fisted and close mouthed (lost braincells too?) when it comes to getting their kit to work. 

[Rik]

I am curious about what potential outcomes of the request to openreach are? I.e. after the 5 days what should then happen in terms of further work by them or what potential problems may occur after the 5 days? (the last one is rather pessimistic but I don't dare get my hopes up just yet)

I think you need to be prepared for there to be a delay from Openreach in overcoming the TPON problem. That's not something which IDNet have told me, but to provide ADSL, OR have to provide a copper overlay for the phone line. That involves work and cost, so (based on personal experience of a different issue) I'd expect OR to get a surveyor to look at and cost the job, then get back to IDNet. Of course, I am probably a worse pessimist than you.

[ReD_uk]

I had assumed there would be a delay so don't worry I wasn't expecting this to be all sorted within hours of IDNet taking over my phoneline.

The reason for delay is now given as:

We are sorry to inform you that BT Wholesale have notified us of a delay to your order due to :
Awaiting routing : Passed to Supplier Network Planning for Routing. Network intervention more complex than can be handled automatically.

Does this at least hint at the fact they are now actually recognising the local hardware situation or is it a generic 'we tried to do what we normally do and that didn't work....so now we need to think about it' response?

I only ask as this whole situation would be more bareable if I had some idea of timeline, as otherwise for all I know I could be waiting another three months. I'm sure I wont be, as IDNet seem far more switched on than those I have dealt with in the past, but the not knowing is what's frustrating not the waiting. I'm sure this is a big ask as if there was a timeline available I'd have been told it already. Perhaps if anyone could just chip in what they know about the whole process and what kind of work is generally carried out so that I can better understand it all. As I'll admit I'm completely ignorant to it. I've only ever sorted myself cable broadband in the past and that was the simplest thing in the world.

Cheers,
Simon

[Glenn]

Polchraine maybe able to shed some light on the processes, he seems to know the workings of BT.

[Rik]

Hi Simon

I'd read that as Openreach having finally grasped that they need to supply a copper overlay for the line. What will follow is a rather bureaucratic process, I'm afraid. The first thing they are likely to do is survey the work required and produce a costing. Bear in mind that there's a financial cap on what they are obliged to do, and if the actual cost is greater, they can ask you to pay the bill - but hopefully it won't come to that. Once the work is approved, it will be planned and carried out according to their work load. As soon as the copper is in, the provision will take just a few days. Without wishing to be a Jonah, it is possible that it may take 2-3 months to complete, I've had to wait that long for an extra line when there were no cables before now. Hopefully, though, BT will get their finger out and get the job done more quickly for you. At the moment, only they can give a timescale and you can be sure they will not be sharing it with IDNet at this point.

[mervl]

I hope you can work something out through IDNet, I'd recommend them to anybody.

But should the worse happen and you loose patience or run out of money, you might do worse than investigate (apologies if you've done so) whether there are any fixed wireless providers serving your area. I found the list on the ISP Review site a good place to start. It's a big IF: they serve your area, you can get a response (it's the same with any small co: persistence and direct voice contact is usually required), check their service limits are OK for you, and they have line of sight to a receiver on your roof (with a set up like cable): their usual base service is now usually better than ADSL, often comparable with ADSL2+, sometimes with higher downloads, and can be as good as anything less than your own dedicated fibre link. Aerial install can though be up to the price of a TV aerial install. Probably a not if your immediately locality is heavily wooded, or you're in the shadow of serious hills. My service is a 3-4x uplift on ADSL2 at 5km from a transmitter and 3.4km from the exchange, only beaten (and only on download) by VDSL.

[ReD_uk]

Thanks for the replies all.

The points you raise Rik as ones that I was slightly afraid of. As I am only renting at this address I'm not particularly keen on the idea of being charged for the work. But I'll deal with that situation when I have too, if at all.

The wireless option could be another avenue for investigation, but any large amount of initial cost will likely rule it out due to the property not being mine.

Thanks for all the help so far, I'll wait for the next response to see which way this is going to go.

[Rik]

 

Good luck.

[ReD_uk]

A quick update to say thank you to everyone on here and behind the scenes. My broadband service was activated today and to say i am relieved is an understatement.

Special thank you to both Rik for always being there to answer questions and to Brian at IDNet for all his work. 

[Glenn]

 

[Ray]

 

[Simon]

Glad it worked out OK.  Thanks for letting us know. 

[Rik]

Great news - Brian bites BT again!

[vectorlight]

We have also just recently moved into Charlton Down and like Simon have had trouble getting BT broadband. After having the order cancelled numerous times we have given up on BT altogether and now use EE. They have a 4G transmitter within range of our house and we get 35mb download speeds. Its a bit more expensive than BT and cannot have unlimited downloads but we've cancelled the landline and just use VOIP for our landline via a 4G router so have saved some money by not paying any line rental