Free Christmas downloads

[.Griff.]

Does anyone, Rik maybe, know if there's plans to repeat last years gesture?

I notice AAISP are doing it for the whole of the Christmas week.

[Rik]

I don't know, Griff, sorry.

[Lance]

Planning some large downloads? 

[.Griff.]

Planning some large downloads? 

Christmas Steam sale 

[Rik]

I tend to be out of steam after Xmas.

[Lance]

Well if its going to be on sale, maybe you could buy some more? 

[Rik]

I can't take the pressure, Lance.

[Technical Ben]

Christmas Steam sale 

That and iPlayer.

[colonelsun]

Just wondered, sorry dared to dream, if IDNET were having a Christmas bandwidth truce this year or not?

I found no reference at all in the newsletter, nothing on the forums, finally i had to do a forum 'search'.

Is there a pink elephant sitting in the room and we're all supposed to ignore it. Is it like the war and nobody supposed to mention it?

[Steve]

Sorry there is no free Xmas download allowance this year.

[sobranie]

Sorry there is no free Xmas download allowance this year.

A step too far in the wrong direction methinks!!

[Niall]

That sucks. I've pushed my bandwidth to the limit due to the steam sale, and have just got 2 more games. One as a gift and bought another. Ah well, midnight d/l it is. I wanna play Alien Vs Predator

Train simulator is under £3 on there

[Steve]

I think (and I may be wrong) that it has been abused in the past , obviously IDNet have to pay BTw for any bandwidth we use whether we pay for it or not. Myself I have plenty of capacity between midnight and 09:00.

[Simon]

In the current economic climate, I guess it's just not viable to offer freebies as they once did.

[esh]

I got upgraded to their ADSL2 package when I was moved to LLU, even without having ADSL2, and I think the 60/300 GB package is pretty good value. It was a little bit close to the mark on the older ADSL1/BT package as it was only 40GB on peak, which can easily be chewed in a month if you have a couple people randomly downloading and/or using streaming video. As it stands, 60GB on peak you only have to really watch if you've got a busy month.

So, while I'm really happy with the package I'm on, I can understand why those on the lesser packages might be struggling. Pretty much every game is 10GB minimum now! And streaming chews stuff up really fast. All I can say is try and save the on peak for streaming and steam overnight.

[Niall]

Actually, looking at my usage, the IDnet email I had was being rather panic fuelled. I've got over 12gb left. Yay for games

[Baz]

I got upgraded to their ADSL2 package when I was moved to LLU, even without having ADSL2, and I think the 60/300 GB package is pretty good value. It was a little bit close to the mark on the older ADSL1/BT package as it was only 40GB on peak, which can easily be chewed in a month if you have a couple people randomly downloading and/or using streaming video. As it stands, 60GB on peak you only have to really watch if you've got a busy month.

So, while I'm really happy with the package I'm on, I can understand why those on the lesser packages might be struggling. Pretty much every game is 10GB minimum now! And streaming chews stuff up really fast. All I can say is try and save the on peak for streaming and steam overnight.

which package are you on Esh? do you mean that when you were moved to LLU your package allowance was upgraded to?

I was moved to LLU and stayed on the same deal,just wondered if it was an offer or option at the time of the move that I didnt see 

[Rik]

It would only happen if someone moved from Max to LLU, Baz. Those that were on ADSL2 already had the extra bandwidth.

[Rik]

A step too far in the wrong direction methinks!!

As Steve says, Rick, a few users abused the system in the two years it was tried, downloading 24/7, which had a knock on effect on speeds for the majority. In addition, there were complaints about the way it was implemented, so there was no PR value in the exercise. In unfavourable trading conditions, IDNet couldn't justify the costs that free bandwidth incurred.

[talos]

Same old story
                              The greedy few destroying it for the majority,      sounds like a fact of life now, unfortunately
                                                           

[Rik]

I'm afraid so, Bob. Merry Xmas to you too.

[talos]

I'm afraid so, Bob. Merry Xmas to you too.

And to you Rik,  try not to eat too much

[Rik]

Oddly enough, that's the exact opposite of what I was planning, Bob.

[talos]

Got to leave room for the drinkies

[Rik]

I take them intravenously, Bob, it saves time. 

[Aaron]

Anyone else noticed the Off-peak bandwidth has remained unchanged starting from 24th? My Current Usage RSS feed for 23rd and 24th are the same values for Off-Peak, and I've definitely been using the internet at Off-Peak times, have IDNet sneaked in a free christmas downloads for "Off-Peak times only"? 

[Steve]

My off peak has changed between the 23rd and the 24th.

[Rik]

As has mine. It's probably a case of the BT radius server not providing the information to IDNet, it will catch up, unfortunately.

[adamb]

Oh bum :/ I should have checked about the bandwidth. I assumed that we got free Christmas day bandwidth every year. I now have 3gb left for the month! I only wanted to download around 8gb today. Shame that a few greedy people have messed it up for everyone. Looks like I will be paying around £8 more next bill. Can't wait until I can afford to go unmetered I am currently on Home SuperMax (ADSL MAX PREMIUM)

[Rik]

Can you not download off peak?

[adamb]

Hi Rik,

Yeah, I do that if I need something large. My off peak usage is almost zero. I was planning some streaming video today but I can't do that now unless I want to pay for it! It's my own fault for not checking. Just a bit peeved that I didn't check. The plan is that my Google Adsense will pay for the top unmetered package! Even with that, I am not the sort to download 27/4. My ideal package would be 60GB peak but my exchange is not LLU so I have 40GB. Still cheap I suppose, I just hate being capped and watching the bandwidth.

[Rik]

IDNet are reviewing their packages in the New Year. I have no idea what may result from that, though.

[Ardua]

Season's best wishes to all. Rik - interesting to hear that IDNet are reviewing their packages. I am a bit like adamb, I make some, but not a lot of use of my off-peak allowance. I confess that I have never quite understood why ISPs charge as they do. With this in mind, I have been doing quite a bit of research based on my usage pattern over the past few months and, to my great surprise, I found that if I was on an AAISP metered package then my monthly cost would be similar to what I pay IDNet each month. What tips the balance in IDNet's favour is the 12 months for the price of 11 but this only works if (a) one can find the upfront funds and (b) savings interest rates remain low. It might be worth IDNet seeking customer feedback before they take any commercial decisions about future package mix. For what it is worth, I would welcome the introduction of carry forward of some of my unused monthly allowance, and a transfer of some off-peak under usage to peak. At the moment, I admit through BB inactivity on my part, I sense that I am 'subsidising' those who make maximum use of their peak and off-peak allowances.

[Rik]

Bandwidth is like mustard, ISPs make their profits from the bits people don't use. If everyone used their full allowance, prices would have to rise.

IDNet have always listened to their customers over the years, I used to get 2GB/month for the same price I now pay for 60GB. However, there is no economy of scale, afaik, from BT, so there's no margin for increasing allowances further until BT reduce their prices. The move to Telefonica (Be) where possible, produces an extra standing cost, but a lower bandwidth cost, so that balance will have to be struck to create as much leeway as possible. Carry forward is not practical, as it can generate peaks of traffic which saturate the network, similarly, due to the BT charging structure and network limitations, it's not going to be possible to make significant changes to the peak/off peak balance.

The only point at which significant savings could be made, as far as I can see, is to move support offshore, but such a move would make me an ex-customer.

[cavillas]

The only point at which significant savings could be made, as far as I can see, is to move support offshore, but such a move would make me an ex-customer

What about if it was the Isle of WHite?

[Rik]

 

[mervl]

IDNet are reviewing their packages in the New Year.

No surprise, I suspect, with the tanked economy and inflation on costs. Landline and broadband charges are rising across the board, though in the ideal world they'd be limited to inflation only! I have symphathy for IDNet without the economies of scale of the big boys, and still being competitive on price at the quality end of the market. Everybody has their own view about value for money, but broadband isn't a personalised service you can negotiate 1:1. (But please don't follow the [bad] example of my health insurer who just raised their premiums by 25% to reflect my no-claims history no doubt ).

For my part on broadband, any significant reduction to off-peak hours worse, reducing allowances less welcome and rebalancing between peak and off-peak allowances less worse. Might be good PR to allow customers a concession even if in a minimum contract period of more than a month to move to a lower priced package (if available) for a short period after notice if they can do it.

[Technical Ben]

Bandwidth is like mustard, ...

Huh?

[Rik]

The saying goes that Colman's got rich on the mustard people left on their plates, Ben. That is, people paid for more than they used.

[Ardua]

Bandwidth is like mustard, ISPs make their profits from the bits people don't use. If everyone used their full allowance, prices would have to rise.

IDNet have always listened to their customers over the years, I used to get 2GB/month for the same price I now pay for 60GB. However, there is no economy of scale, afaik, from BT, so there's no margin for increasing allowances further until BT reduce their prices. The move to Telefonica (Be) where possible, produces an extra standing cost, but a lower bandwidth cost, so that balance will have to be struck to create as much leeway as possible. Carry forward is not practical, as it can generate peaks of traffic which saturate the network, similarly, due to the BT charging structure and network limitations, it's not going to be possible to make significant changes to the peak/off peak balance.

The only point at which significant savings could be made, as far as I can see, is to move support offshore, but such a move would make me an ex-customer.

Clearly, ISPs' package mixes will suit some and not others. You say 'carry forward' is not possible; however, that is is exactly what AAISP offers its customers (or so I am told by those in the know). Moreover, there is ratio of 2.5:50 'peak' to 'off peak' unit metering with 1TB/unit from 2 to 6am. Having looked carefully at a number of ISP offerings, I was just surprised having read how expensive they are only to find, that for me, this wouldn't be the case. Similarly, a move to Goscomb would give me a 80GB FTTC package for the same price as IDNet's 50GB package. I am not saying for one moment that AAISP or Goscomb are better than IDNet but it does make one sit back and think. More so, as my annual IDNet bill arrived at 10am this morning (as expected)!

[Rik]

For my part on broadband, any significant reduction to off-peak hours worse, reducing allowances less welcome and rebalancing between peak and off-peak allowances less worse. Might be good PR to allow customers a concession even if in a minimum contract period of more than a month to move to a lower priced package (if available) for a short period after notice if they can do it.

I'm not sure what you're asking for? People can move between packages at any time, though there may be a charge if moving to a lower package.

[Rik]

Clearly, ISPs' package mixes will suit some and not others. You say 'carry forward' is not possible; however, that is is exactly what AAISP offers its customers (or so I am told by those in the know).

Some ISPs can do it, for IDNet it would cause problems if people started saving bandwidth to use later, as their bandwidth requirement calculations are based on the peak need of the capacity they sell. As a large percentage of customers are business users, it's important to them not to oversell capacity.

[mervl]

I'm not sure what you're asking for? People can move between packages at any time, though there may be a charge if moving to a lower package.

It was the point about waiving the charge for moving to a lower priced package if there are adverse changes (say more than an inflation price increase).

[Rik]

The problem is that BT make a charge, and if people started flipping packages according to their monthly needs, it would hit profit margins. IDNet absorb the charge for an upgrade.

[Ardua]

The problem is that BT make a charge, and if people started flipping packages according to their monthly needs, it would hit profit margins. IDNet absorb the charge for an upgrade.

What are BT charging for? It cannot be for a simple package change; surely, re-sellers will be charged for the total amount of bandwidth that they re-sell. How then can AAISP makes its model work which allows users to 'borrow' from the following month's quota or, conversely, add any under usage (within limits) to the following month? Put simply, the user can pay for, say, 3 units a month and use up to 36 units a year without incurring any extra charge. Moreover, I cannot see that this type of package would be any less attractive to business users than that offered by IDNet. I do though accept your argument that this might not be an attractive pricing option for heavy downloaders.

I have no idea how IDNet's package change system works as I have never had call to use it. That said, provided that the user is prepared to give at least 30 days notice of a change then I assume that there would be no charge for a package change - up or down?

[mervl]

My point I suspect only related to the (relative small number?) of FTTC connections which I thought were a fixed one year initial term (subject to upgrades) and with much less force to the 3 month intial term for O2 ADSL2+ service? Not sure about phone though - I suspect it's month to month? Annual payments would be refunded pro-rata I assume on termination of a monthly contract.

[colonelsun]

Yikes! When i discovered this post it had been looked at a few times and then discarded like so much cheap turkey this Christmas. I'd have presumed an outcry, at the very least some very British discreet grumbling to their other half before kicking the dog.

Not sure if anyone else thinks the same but a recession always was, and is, a good time to for a business to stay on the right side of their customers. We remember when a business does something in our favour. Yes, of course, i understand the economic argument and yet i also watch the news. Local councils bidding for government money for faster broadband in remote areas, whole towns and villages doing it themselves......and while they wait for that broadband there is always the question of staying with your present provider or moving over to Sky. That's exactly what happened at our last village Parish Council meeting. Asked, by a show of hands, what we would do when faster broadband was available, the whole room voted for Sky. These were ordinary people, not small or big business owners, they know what they want, 24 hour-7 days a week- unlimited broadband.

IDNET have always been good for me, no complaints whatsoever. But, and it's a big 'BUT', just how loyal are your broadband customers when they're offered faster speeds etc from the likes of Sky's broadband on the table? Personally, remembering that Christmas bandwidth freebie would count toward my changing of provider. It would remind me of that small provider that cared about it's customers, even during a recession, who still respected a few old fashioned values to it's loyal customer base. The next couple of years will see both  broadband provider and rural customer beseiged by fantastic offers and newer technology. We represent quite a healthy population we rural customers, we'll no longer just have to accept what thrown at us as regards to broadband...we'll be on an equal playing ground just like everyone else.

I can't help thinking the withdrawal of the 2011 Christmas freebie will come back and bite IDNET in the backside.

[Steve]

It would have been nice I agree but if it's been abused in the past so I can understand their reluctance. We after all do not expect free electricity or gas  during this holiday period so why we should expect free broadband I'm not sure. Certainly I would not be choosing my ISP because they give me free bandwidth over the Christmas period as it's thankfully a very long time until the next one.

[Ardua]

It would have been nice I agree but if it's been abused in the past so I can understand their reluctance. We after all do not expect free electricity or gas  during this holiday period so why we should expect free broadband I'm not sure. Certainly I would not be choosing my ISP because they give me free bandwidth over the Christmas period as it's thankfully a very long time until the next one.

As I am unlikely to use my full monthly allowance this month, all I will say on this subject is that it was a way of IDNet showing customers that we are appreciated. With a bit of lateral thinking, misuse/abuse could be managed by imposing a limit based, say, on the size of a customer's broadband package and time with IDNet. That said, I agree that free bandwidth over Christmas it is not a significant factor in my choice of an ISP.

[mervl]

Am I a realist or a pessimist? Shouldn't say this but I suspect residential broadband = BT Group, TalkTalk and Sky. We're lucky having other alternatives and should be the ones to be grateful. I'm filled with admiration with the patience and forbearance of the forum mods, let alone the staff who have to deal with us retail customers. I have a car which is bigger than I need for 90% of my day to day use "just in case", the same is true of my chosen bandwidth allowance. I hope it's a two way relationship, but I have to start by being reasonable. BT costs are part of inflation and the staff occasionally need a pay rise - unfortunate but we have to pay our fair whack; I'd wonder whether the out of hours contract is worth the cost though (if any)? I'm always concerned that basically I'm more trouble than I'm worth. Yes . . . I do know!

Happy New Year everybody! Memo to self: make a resolution to be less of a nuisance; there.

[Steve]

The world would be a boring place if everyone was so bloody agreeable,if one cannot challenge the status quo or the accepted norm we might as well all pack and go home.

[Rik]

What are BT charging for?

I should have expanded that point, the charge is made for moving to or from the Max or Pro packages (ie lower ontention), which involves BT in exchange work. Other packages are just pure billing changes.

How then can AAISP makes its model work which allows users to 'borrow' from the following month's quota or, conversely, add any under usage (within limits) to the following month? Put simply, the user can pay for, say, 3 units a month and use up to 36 units a year without incurring any extra charge. Moreover, I cannot see that this type of package would be any less attractive to business users than that offered by IDNet. I do though accept your argument that this might not be an attractive pricing option for heavy downloaders.

Ultimately, I can only give you my personal opinion. If you want a definitive answer, you would have to talk directly to IDNet. AAISP have a very different business model to IDNet, we all must choose which suits our needs better.

I have no idea how IDNet's package change system works as I have never had call to use it. That said, provided that the user is prepared to give at least 30 days notice of a change then I assume that there would be no charge for a package change - up or down?

The change is made immediately, no extra charges are applied in the current billing period. A change up incurs no charge, a change down may incur a change if it involves BT.

[Rik]

The world would be a boring place if everyone was so bloody agreeable,if one cannot challenge the status quo or the accepted norm we might as well all pack and go home.

Good idea, 'night.

[Rik]

My point I suspect only related to the (relative small number?) of FTTC connections which I thought were a fixed one year initial term (subject to upgrades) and with much less force to the 3 month intial term for O2 ADSL2+ service? Not sure about phone though - I suspect it's month to month? Annual payments would be refunded pro-rata I assume on termination of a monthly contract.

The 1 year FTTC contract is imposed by BT on ISPs, so they have to pass it on, the cost to the business could be catastrophic if they didn't and had to 'carry' the balance of the year themselves. The rest of the ADSL and phone packages are all on a 30-day rolling contract, 30 days notice required.

[Rik]

I can't help thinking the withdrawal of the 2011 Christmas freebie will come back and bite IDNET in the backside.

The 2009 and 2010 offering were both subject to abuse which cost IDNet money. It's a nice gesture, but a balance has to be struck with the viability of making it. Ultimately, IDNet would have to look to recover the costs from somewhere. Personally, I prefer to pay for what I use, rather than pay more so that I can have 'free' bandwidth at Xmas. As Steve has said, we don't get free phone calls, gas, water, electricity or even petrol at Xmas - why do we feel ADSL should be different?

[Niall]

If it carried over, I'd have an obscene amount of off peak bandwidth available for use

[.Griff.]

I've absolutely no issue at all with IDNet deciding not to offer a repeat of last years bandwidth offer however I'm a little unhappy with all the remarks about people "abusing" the offer.

Last year was my first Christmas with Idnet. I'd moved from an unlimited ISP and quickly got used to rationing my allowance over the course of each calendar month. Then Christmas arrived and IDNet kindly informed all their customers about the free usage periods over certain days which was handy as I'd been given some iTunes vouchers and gifted two games on Steam and I think it's safe to say I downloaded about 20 - 30 GB on Christmas afternoon last year.

It's not like I left iPlayer streaming HD content all day and went out for the day or used as much bandwidth as possible simply because I could so I'm now left wondering if I'm considered as one of the reasons why the offer isn't being repeated? Am I considered as "abusing the system" last year?!?

[Steve]

I've absolutely no idea Griff, I certainly have not had any contact with IDNet with regard to why and why not there's no free bandwidth this year.

[adamb]

Then Christmas arrived and IDNet kindly informed all their customers about the free usage periods over certain days which was handy as I'd been given some iTunes vouchers and gifted two games on Steam and I think it's safe to say I downloaded about 20 - 30 GB on Christmas afternoon last year.

I was one of the people saying that it was a shame that some abused it. Whilst you downloaded a lot of data, it's not 24/7 full speed downloading. To be honest, the only thing that makes IDNet a viable ISP for me is the ADSL Max Premium (8Mb download and 832K upload). It's hard to find a decent package these days when your exchange is non-LLU. For me, the package that I am on is one of very few options for me. I could "get by" easily on the 60GB offered on the LLU deal but the 40GB is the difference for me. I know it's only 20GB extra and even if I had to pay for an extra 20GB, it would cost me £20 + £34.99 = £59.99 which is cheaper that when I was with Nildram Unmetered package on ADSL Max Premium.

I have been with ISP's on unmetered packages but at the end of the day they are all the same. Whether I am with Sky, TalkTalk, UKOnline (my last ISP), they are all giving me the same service, 8 meg down 448K up and latency which could be used to measure the distance between planets. I cannot live without my ADSL Max Premium, it's just a shame that I have to watch my usage. In IDNet's defense, I am still getting a good deal even if I go over 10GB every month so I have shot myself in the testiclos by mentioning it It's all still down to BT because if my exchange was not so primitive then I would have the perfect amount of bandwidth every month.

[Ardua]

In days of old, when the family visited for Christmas the only thing to worry about was 'do we have enough food and drink'? I have just done an unofficial wi-fi connectivity census and the results are as follows: an IMac, a MacBook Pro, 3 Kindles, 3 IPads, 3 IPhones, 2 Blackberrys, 2 IPod Touchs, an internet radio and a BluRay recorder are all fighting for my bandwidth. Fortunately, I still have some peak GBs left in the Bank and watching the usage meter is only slightly less exciting than watching the endless Christmas repeats on TV.

[Simon]

Well, there is one easy solution - turn your router off, or don't give them all the password.

[Ardua]

Well, there is one easy solution - turn your router off, or don't give them all the password.

I am not sure that I would want to be known as Scrooge when they have all travelled along way to see us. Usage does clock up at quite a rate when one shouts out 'have you seen this latest free book on Amazon' and three people down load it. It is days like today when an unlimited package  - or an ISP Christmas freebie - undoubtedly has its attractions!

[Simon]

When you think, it's only in the last couple of years that all these wifi devices have popped up.  Makes you wonder how we all used to manage to get through the day without them, doesn't it?

[Ardua]

Grandson has just announced that as Grandad has got fast broadband, he would like to download today's Freebie from ITunes - a 1GB video of Top Gear. I have told him that he is free to do whatever he wants between Midnight and 9am but now it is time for a Christmas game of charades. His sister's response was 'I am sure that I have an App for that'!  You cannot help but love 'em.

[Rik]

It's not like I left iPlayer streaming HD content all day and went out for the day or used as much bandwidth as possible simply because I could so I'm now left wondering if I'm considered as one of the reasons why the offer isn't being repeated? Am I considered as "abusing the system" last year?!?

No, Griff. I don't know who was, but the problem came from those who downloaded flat out, 24/7, during the free period.

[Ardua]

As the Christmas break nears its end, it is probably time for Rik et al to draw a line under this particular thread - unless, the intention is to keep it running with Christmas 2012 in mind! Seriously, my connection has not missed a heartbeat (both in terms of connectivity and downstream speed) in the past fortnight so IDNet, and to some extent BT, is to be congratulated for that.

[Simon]

We don't usually close threads just because the topic has moved along, but I expect one of us will split the SD / HD part of the discussion when we get a minute.  It's not something I can do from my phone. 

[Lance]

Me neither! You just can't get the staff!

[Steve]

It was done ages ago!

[Simon]

[pctech]

and to some extent BT, is to be congratulated for that.

Now you've put a hex on it, NEVER EVER congratulate BT as when you do it all starts to go wrong.

I'd congratulate all the non BT Retail ISPs that provide an excellent service in spite of BT