BB connection but no phone connection

[Lona]

I can't dial out or receive incoming calls but my BB connection is OK.  I did a line test on BT website and it states no fault on the line.  Is it possible that Idnet changing me over to Adsl 2 could be affecting my phoneline.?

[Rik]

It shouldn't happen, but could if the engineer didn't do the job correctly. Has your BB speed dropped at all?

[Lona]

BB seems perfect but none of my phones are working.

[Rik]

Email support, they'll have to check the line.

[Lona]

Just done a BT speedtest and download speed was 6.9mb upload was .4mb

[Rik]

Is that 'normal'?

[Lona]

Just about the same as adsl.  I logged into IDNet and it states I am on Adsl max so I guess they are still working on things.  I have emailed them. 

If I ring my phone using mobile it rings out but I when I pick up it's just a loud drone.  I've tried two handsets from different phones.

[Rik]

It could be that the jumpering wasn't done correctly during the upgrade. What sort of pitch is the drone?

[Lona]

Sort of loud whistle

[Rik]

Try unplugging the router, see if that helps.

[Lona]

I've already tried unplugging the router from the phone line.  I have also emailed Idnet who have replied saying I will have to get in touch with BT. 

I emailed back stating that BT say there is no fault on the line.

It's a bit of a co-incidence that it should happen today when the change over is taking place.

[Lona]

Just had another email from James at Idnet to say that the change over should not have affected my phoneline and that it's a BT fault.

BT say there is no fault so I'm back to square one.

[Rik]

You'll have to get BT to send an engineer out, Lona. The line would have been moved physically at the exchange, and it sounds like they have done something wrong, eg put a test tone on it and forgotten to take it off again.

[Lona]

I am a bit disappointed in IDnet as it is they who are upgrading my BB and should be in contact with BT to tell them they have screwed up or at least investigate the problem

[Simon]

I don't think IDNet can do anything about a phone line problem if you're not getting your landline through them. 

[Rik]

What Simon says is correct, Lona. BT won't talk to IDNet about the voice line, as IDNet don't "own" it.

[Lona]

Well the way I see it I should ask Idnet to put me back to adsl as my phone line was fine until I upgraded.

Should BT charge me £150 for a call out and it was down to IDnet then I would pass the charge onto them.

[Rik]

You can't. BT won't move people back from an MSAN (ADSL2) to a DSLAM (ADSL Max), all they will do is change the modulation back.

[Lona]

  So does that mean I have to live without a landline if 21cn doesn't work with my exchange.?

I'm going for a swim as I'm fed up with the whole saga.

[Rik]

No, you need to get BT to send an engineer out.

[Lance]

BT haven't said there is no fault. They have said that their automated system can't detect a fault.

Clearly you have a fault which an engineer will have no trouble detecting given that you can't use the phone. Therefore there is no risk of a charge.

[Polchraine]

Disconnect ALL of your ADSL including filters and see if the problem remains - I suggest it will but you have then proved it is on teh Voice circuit.

What may have happened is that a single leg has been left disconnected or failed.   Voice requires both A&B whereas ADSL will run with "one leg diss" albeit at (most times) a slower speed.    Ringing can still occur with that fault - depending on which leg.

Call BT and get them to ring you from the second line, let them hear ringing, answer it and they will soon hear the failure.

[Lona]

I've done every test there is including using two different handsets.  I managed to get through to BT from a neighbours phone and they kept saying the line was testing ok but when I told them I had just upgraded to 21cn they said they would look into it.

As luck would have it I was coming home from my swim and stopped when I saw an Openreach van.  I spoke to the engineer there and he said they haven't connected it up right.

I still say I am Idnet's customer and I shouldn't be having all this trouble and that they should get onto BT and throw the book at them.

I got an email when I got home from BT to say they think they can sort the problem but it will take until the end of the 15th Dec.  They gave me a tracking number and when I linked to it, it said the fault had been solved.
NO IT HASN'T.

[Rik]

I still say I am Idnet's customer and I shouldn't be having all this trouble and that they should get onto BT and throw the book at them.

The fault is on the voice line, Lona, you're not IDNet's customer on the voice side, so BT won't talk to them about it - just as they wouldn't talk to me.

[Lona]

I can't agree with that Rik.  I put in an order to Idnet, that order has not been fulfilled and it should be them fighting on my behalf but this country has turned into a buck passing community.

Had I not upgraded I wouldn't be having these problems, therefore Idnet who is BT's customer should be contacting them on my behalf.

[Rik]

IDNet have arranged a broadband connection with BT for you, Lona, if that were not working, they would be dealing with BT about the problem. That order has been fulfilled.

They haven't arranged a voice connection, so if the BT engineer who made the wiring changes hasn't done the job correctly, the only people who can get it fixed are BT, as your voice provider.

I'm sorry, but you must accept that there is simply nothing a third-party can do about your voice line. IDNet have the same standing with BT on that as I do. If I phoned BT on your behalf, they would tell me they couldn't talk to me, and they'd be right. If your voice line was with IDNet, they'd be chewing lumps out of BT for you, but it's not.

[Lona]

I should not be left without a voice line and it is a result of an order which Idnet requested to BT.  If I pay Idnet for a service which has left me with no voice line then Idnet has not fulfilled the order as it is of no use having BB without the use of my phone.

Had Idnet let me know that this could happen, I would not have upgraded, therefore I still say they should be contacting BT because they are BT's customer and I am Idnet's customer.

[pctech]

I agree its crazy Lona but most of what BT do is but it is as has been said.

If you move your line rental to IDNet they can get it sorted for you but at the moment it's up to BT.

When I upgraded to ADSL Max a line card failed and the ISP I was with at the time told me that a BT fault report had indicated a line card had failed, I was without connection and the voice side was with BT retail at the time so plugged a phone in and rang 150 to be told there's nothing that they could do to sort out my ADSL problem because the ISP I was with was the customer and not BT Retail.

I next found a number for BT Wholesale and called that, again I was told that they did not have to give me any information as I was not the customer as far as they were concerned.

After a bit of persuasion the ISP persued the issue with BT management and it was fixed by the following Saturday.

Best thing you can do is get your broadband and phone line from one supplier so they can take care of everything.

IDNet can't really be held responsible for BT's mistake or equipment failure, as I've said above, they are just a customer, like you.

[Lona]

IDNet can't really be held responsible for BT's mistake or equipment failure, as I've said above, they are just a customer, like you.

I have just had BT phone me on my mobile and they said it was Idnet's responsibility to see that my BB connection was set up properly and that includes voice.  As there is no fault as such on my line BT engineers have tested the line and there is no fault.  The fault is the change over to 21CN which interfered with my voice part of my line.  As my order was made via Idnet it is they who should have monitored that it went smoothly. As you say yourself, Idnet is BT's customer and BT did not set up the 21CN properly.  I should not have to contact BT myself as I am Idnet's customer.

[pctech]

Maybe I've misunderstood, do you now pay IDNet for your line rental Lona?

[Lona]

Maybe I've misunderstood, do you now pay IDNet for your line rental Lona?

No you didn't misunderstand.  My line is with BT.  Lets put it another way, If I go into a shop and buy a dress and the seams are all burst, the shop does not expect me to go to China to complain about the fault.  I am the shops customer so it's up to them to sort out the problem.  Idnet booked BT to change my connection. BT screwed up the connection which left me with no voice on my phone so it's up to Idnet to make BT sort it out, regardless of who supplies my phone line.

[pctech]

Your line rental (whomever it is paid to) covers maintenance of the copper loop circuit coming into your home and the voice service meaning you should be able to get a dial tone and be able to dial out unless of course you have set call barring etc.

Problem comes when a fault like this occurs as BT Wholesale will only take voice fault reports from the company whom you pay line rental to and if that's BT Retail then there's really nothing that IDNet can do, it has to be persued via BT Retail no matter what someone ringing from a call centre may tell you.

[pctech]

No you didn't misunderstand.  My line is with BT.  Lets put it another way, If I go into a shop and buy a dress and the seams are all burst, the shop does not expect me to go to China to complain about the fault.  I am the shops customer so it's up to them to sort out the problem.  Idnet booked BT to change my connection. BT screwed up the connection which left me with no voice on my phone so it's up to Idnet to make BT sort it out, regardless of who supplies my phone line.

As I've said it's crazy and I don't disagree with you at all, all I'm trying to explain as well as others here is that this is not IDNet trying to make things difficult for you, this is the way it is, BT Wholesale will not take a fault report for the voice side of a line from IDNet.

I'm looking for all the numbers you need and will PM you shortly with them.

[pctech]

Lona you should have a PM.

[Rik]

I have just had BT phone me on my mobile and they said it was Idnet's responsibility to see that my BB connection was set up properly and that includes voice. 

BT are not telling you the truth. Who do you pay for calls and voice line rental? That company is the only one that can talk to BT Wholesale on your behalf.

The fault is the change over to 21CN which interfered with my voice part of my line.  As my order was made via Idnet it is they who should have monitored that it went smoothly. As you say yourself, Idnet is BT's customer and BT did not set up the 21CN properly.  I should not have to contact BT myself as I am Idnet's customer.

Your ADSL connection is working fine. That's the only part that IDNet have a responsibility for, or can do anything about. Ultimately, BT make the rules. You buy your ADSL from IDNet who buy from BT Wholesale. You buy your phone from BT Retail, who also buy from BT Wholesale. BT Wholesale pay BT Openreach to do the work, but BT Wholesale will only deal with their customer. When it comes to the voice side, IDNet are not the customer, so BT Wholesale won't deal with them. It's a  messy, cack-handed system, but it is the system we all have to live with it.

Sorry, but there's nothing more I an say about the situation. The only two solutions I see are for you to contact BT or to move your voice line to IDNet.

[Lona]

I wish I had never got involved with this upgrade as neither party want to take responsiblity for the fault. I have now to have a call out from an engineer and have been advised that it could cost me £130 and it won't happen until Thursday.

All I can say is that a Black gentleman's left leg is neither right nor is it fair.

PS I've tried to reply to your PM but got this message

User 'pctech' has blocked your personal message.

[pctech]

Lona rest assured, if you can't make a voice call you won't be charged a penny.

[pctech]

I wish I had never got involved with this upgrade as neither party want to take responsiblity for the fault. I have now to have a call out from an engineer and have been advised that it could cost me £130 and it won't happen until Thursday.

All I can say is that a Black gentleman's left leg is neither right nor is it fair.

PS I've tried to reply to your PM but got this message

User 'pctech' has blocked your personal message.

Itchy trigger finger when sorting out my preferences, I'll go and fix it now.

[Polchraine]

The fact that IDNet cannot discuss your voice problems with BT is NOT the fault of either IDNet or BT but OFCOM.    They make the rules and BT &c have to abide by them.

[pctech]

BT are difficult to deal with at the best of times anyway, I'd say that sometimes it is preferable to deal with automated systems but theirs takes the cake and the biscuit barrel as it tries everything to avoid putting you through to a human.

My other landline is coming back to IDNet when my BT contract expires.

[Lona]

I don't like keeping my eggs all in one basket as I could leave Idnet someday and then I would still have my phoneline with them.  I have a good deal going at the moment with BT for my phoneline as I only pay £120 up front and nothing else for a year's rental.  I make all my calls via 18185.

[pctech]

Well unless you move your broadband to BT the situation will remain as it is now, IDNet for broadband and BT for line maintenance and voice issues.

I'm not sure what further advice or assistance we can offer here other than our own experiences of going through similar issues, noone says they agree with it but these are the current rules as has been pointed out.

All I will say is this, in my experience it has been better dealing with the smaller providers such as IDNet and in my case, Zen than BT retail, both of the two offer one month contracts as opposed to the BT lock in.

I moved my other line to BT Retail to take advantage of the £120 line rental saver but this has proved to be a false economy really so that line is coming back to IDNet.

Neither of the two smaller operators has sent me round the houses with regard to any queries, I rang BT once for a query about a calling plan and it took me 15 minutes to get through to someone who sounded as though I was inconveniencing them so I dread to think what would happen if I was in your situation.

I take your point about being on a good deal, but the deal is only good when the service works and when it doesn't it is backed up by good customer service.

[Technical Ben]

Think of it this way Lona. IDNet sent you a parcel in the post (BroadBand). The message on the parcel said "will collect at the post office" as it's too big to fit in the post box. The post office, being not to clever, decides to divert ALL your mail to be collected, including letters (voice calls). This is a massive inconvenience to you. However, IDNet can do nothing to solve it, as the post office only talk to the addressee. Now it's even worse if the Post office go "Nope, no note here saying to redirect your post"...

Is the above IDNets fault? Well, even though the error would never exist if IDNet never sent the parcel? But the fault was that of the post office.

Except in this instance, it's not a note saying to redirect your post, it's a wire or button been pressed in the exchange.

[pctech]

Good analogy Ben.

Not sure what else can be said really.

[Lona]

Well there is a moral to that story and that is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".  I should have stayed with Adsl and saved myself a lot of heartache.  I have had to put £30 on my mobile phone as it's pay as you go and I only ever use it when I'm out in the car by myself. I've told BT that I will be sending them my bill.

[pctech]

The 21CN upgrade would have happened anyway, neither you nor IDNet could have prevented it, I'm using ADSL over 21CN at the moment.

I think there's just been some sloppy engineering work here or a component has failed by coincidence, the line card failed on me during an upgrade to ADSL Max from the fixed 512 service.

[Steve]

Indeed I 'm surprised the change hadn't occurred already The usual ISP policy is to move all connections to 21cn when it becomes available. Although now it would appear that shoddy engineering work has caused unnecessary frustration.

[pctech]

I just got a mail informing me of the switchover and that my connection would go down overnight (went down for at least two hours) but that my service would not change.

ADSL2+ is a happy side effect of the equipment refresh, 21CN is to help BT manage its equipment more easily.

[pctech]

Not sure I can add anymore to this thread as have reinforced what others have said and added my own experiences, I wish Lona a speedy resolution but as they say on Dragons' Den "I'm out"

[Gary]

About a week ago I had my ADSL upgraded to ADSL 2+ I lost voice as well, thankfully it came back, my care alarm went bonkers. I called up IDnet who provide both and Brian made a call, (this was before voice came back) he cancelled the BT exchange engineer who at 7:30am the next morning disconnected me to check  I know you have a great deal with BT but having all my eggs in one basket made life really simple. BT because you call India is a pain I never want to have to go though again, as its costly from a mobile and you never get things sorted first time it seems, the system is convoluted and frustrating. I hope your voice gets sorted quickly Lona, but as has been said, its nothing to do with IDNet.

[Ardua]

I have considerable sympathy with Lona having been in her position earlier this year and again now. I appreciate Rik's point; however, by design, broadband and phone communications use the same pieces of twisted wire, and a fault on one affects the other. The landline provider might have primacy in resolving line faults; however, IDNet could possibly do more to help its loyal customers by suggesting what additional information could be used to support a fault resolution. My line test last night threw up some concerns but TT could get through to the premises. A further line test this morning from the test socket with a corded phone and the information that I provided about a doubling in my line attenuation (and drop in BB speed) convinced them that I had an external line fault. Sadly, this situation of 'not our problem' will continue as most users will be forced to have FTTC rather than FTTP (as is standard in the most other European countries).

[mervl]

I think we've been here before?

I recall the conclusion was that it's the way BT operate, and it's "forced" upon them by Ofcom regulation (law). It's always seemed to me that telecoms should operate in the same way as energy, where the consumer reports the supply fault directly to the infrastructure operator (the local electricity supply company or Transco) not to the billing supplier. Ofcom will have none of it: broadband and phone are segregated, and if you go the wrong way with your complaint it won't be dealt with by BT. Period, as the Americans say.

If you don't like it then get your telephone and broadband from the same supplier. It's your only option. Otherwise you're caught in the Ofcom loop. If it's a phone fault, then it has to be dealt with as such and not as a broadband fault. How do you tell: well BT will tell you and charge you if you get it wrong in reporting a broadband fault when they send out the "wrong" engineer. So if it isn't a problem with the ISPs equipment or in your own equipment (which the ISP will help you identify), and you don't want to contribute to the BT charity, report it to your landline supplier as a phone fault (where you don't get charged if you're wrong). It's your privilege for keeping the services (which you correctly describe as intimately linked) separate. (If you have to identify or convince yourself you hear noise on the line, I've never found it that difficult).

By the way I've never understood the difference between a loyal customer, and presumably the rest of us (disloyal?) lot.

[Ardua]

I think we've been here before?

I recall the conclusion was that it's the way BT operate, and it's "forced" upon them by Ofcom regulation (law). It's always seemed to me that telecoms should operate in the same way as energy, where the consumer reports the supply fault directly to the infrastructure operator (the local electricity supply company or Transco) not to the billing supplier. Ofcom will have none of it: broadband and phone are segregated, and if you go the wrong way with your complaint it won't be dealt with by BT. Period, as the Americans say.

If you don't like it then get your telephone and broadband from the same supplier. It's your only option. Otherwise you're caught in the Ofcom loop. If it's a phone fault, then it has to be dealt with as such and not as a broadband fault. How do you tell: well BT will tell you and charge you if you get it wrong in reporting a broadband fault when they send out the "wrong" engineer. So if it isn't a problem with the ISPs equipment or in your own equipment (which the ISP will help you identify), and you don't want to contribute to the BT charity, report it to your landline supplier as a phone fault (where you don't get charged if you're wrong). It's your privilege for keeping the services (which you correctly describe as intimately linked) separate. (If you have to identify or convince yourself you hear noise on the line, I've never found it that difficult).

By the way I've never understood the difference between a loyal customer, and presumably the rest of us (disloyal?) lot.

Mervl - I think that any company would know who their loyal customers are - but each to his own. My point is that notwithstanding what the great God OFCOM states, Lona has a problem that may or may not be related to her change of ADSL service. It is one thing to say 'it is not an issue for your Broadband supplier' and another to say 'it is not an issue for your Broadband supplier but we would suggest that you approach your phone supplier and make the following points based on our experience of faults of this nature'. The first response may be OFCOM and contractually compliant but the second is more helpful to a customer who is clearly struggling to resolve a problem not of her making. Assistance costs nothing and may well bring commercial rewards, and customer loyalty.

[pctech]

Telecoms is a bit more complex than the energy market because certainly in the case of broadband a virtual circuit is formed between the Customer Premises Equipment (your router) and your ISP's edge routers.

I do think its a little bizarre that BT Wholesake are prevented from acting on a tip off from IDNet such as 'the voice side of customer's line has gone down following some broadband upgrade work you did, could you have a look?'

[Lona]

Well, what a day I've had today.

First of all, received an email from Idnet to say that my new connection is complete.

15 minutes later my phoneline suddenly sprang back into life so I phoned BT and said the problem had been resolved and to cancel the engineer visit for Thursday.

15 minutes later my BB and phoneline went down so first thing I did was phone Idnet as thinking I had no BB they could do something about it as BB had been working the whole time my phone was out of action but Brian said that if my phone was dead I would have to phone BT. I was cut off while on the phone to Brian but he didn't bother phoning me back (and yes I had given him my number) to hear the whole story.

I then phoned BT again and told them I had no phone or BB and they said the line was testing OK and to phone my ISP. I told them I had already done that so they said they would have to send an engineer but as I had cancelled the first visit I would have to wait until Saturday.

15 minutes later my phone sprang into life but I still had no BB so phoned Idnet again but an answering machine said I could not be put through and to phone again later.  Three times I tried but got the same message.  After about an hour it was 6 o'clock by this time I eventually got through to a young girl who said support would call me within the hour.  After half an hour I phoned again and got the same girl who assured me I definitely would get a callback.  I'm still waiting...............

At 8.15pm my BB suddenly became active so thanks for nothing Idnet.

I have been advised to change my phone company to my Isp, well it certainly won't be Idnet with the kind of custumer service I have experienced today.  There is nothing to choose between BT or Idnet and I am thoroughly disgusted with the lot of them.

I will be moving somewhere else when I can find a company with better customer service.

[Lance]

Good luck.

[mervl]

I do symphasise Lorna, because we've all been there.

Two golden rules I'd say are 1. never mention broadband when dealing with a phone line fault to your separate phone line provider, as BT will always use it to try to get themselves off the hook (no pun intended), always talk about a noisy phone, inaudible calls or no dial tone; and 2. phone line faults tend to be intermittent so be very reluctant to cancel a call-out before a decent interval to prove the fault isn't going to recur (provided it's been reported as a phone fault not a broadband one), get it checked, be prepared to nag 'em to do it properly i.e. check everything, if you need to (asking them to explain is a good start), and hope and pray you get a decent engineer because some of them can be lazy. If for instance you think work on your line at the exchange is the problem, explain why and if they haven't already checked then ask them politely to do so, and to ring and let you know what they've done. I think they now get customer care training so it ought to ring a bell!

[pctech]

Very definitely sounds like a bit of kit at the exchange is on its last legs.

I take it you ensured that on each contact you explictly left your mobile number with them as strange as it maybe they could have tried calling the defective line.

I would definitely concur that getting your broadbamd and phone from the same company helps a great deal in these situations as they have total control, it certainly helped me recently when I requested that my socket be replaced with an NTE5 one (which you'll have already anyway)

Bear in mind though that unless you go for a totally unbundled solution such as TalkTalk (off the top of my head, there are others of course) BT is still involved with the exchange equipment and that even if you do use LLU the provider may have to call on BT Openreach if they think there is a problem with the copper loop between the exchange and your home.

[Lona]

I'm stuck with BT for a year as I paid my rental for a year to save money.

BT had my mobile phone number and yes my phone did ring out but I had just a loud noise when I tried to answer it, then when the phone became live again my BB cut off.

Talking to somebody in India didn't help as they couldn't understand me or me them and Idnet was no help either.

[Gary]

I'm stuck with BT for a year as I paid my rental for a year to save money.

Talking to somebody in India didn't help as they couldn't understand me or me them and Idnet was no help either.

Idnet were very helpful with me, when changing over to ADSL 2+ my BB went on and off a few times, It came back up fine with a good speed, as I said Brian called in the exchange crew because initially there was no phone line, now that was done in one call, its still ironic that BT checked the line at 7:30am the next day when he had told BT not to, but that's still a very good service. Sometimes its the way you approach a problem and the staff that help get things sorted , also I believe out of hours do not do callbacks, but I may be wrong, I am sure this was discussed a while back when there was a outage.

[Rik]

The OOH service should not be promising call backs.

[Lance]

But I it was before 6:30 that is normal support time isn't it?

[Steve]

That's the advertised weekly hour in the FAQ's (6pm Friday)

[Lance]

I thought so. Thanks Steve.

[peasblossom]

I would like to think that in an ideal world each operator would be able to deal with their own kit and have the wherewithal to offer cable too (!!). Since we're not in that happy place, reporting a fault as mervl suggests is the best alternative to vote for. If we could, that is.

I do appreciate Lona's frustration but also feel that IDNet have their hands tied behind their backs because of these regulations so they cannot do more.

[Lona]

Brian called in the exchange crew because initially there was no phone line, now that was done in one call

Good for you Gary, Brian didn't afford me the same service, he told me I would have to phone BT myself even although there was no BB connection.

Brian called me this morning and we agreed to disagree as to who's responsibility it was to get things working.  There was no apology for not phoning me back when we were disconnected.  He also couldn't explain the 3 messages telling me to call back later or the OOH staff telling me that there was somebody at support and that I would receive a callback.  Poor customer service similar to BT so it's swings and roundabouts as far I am concerned. I would suggest that Idnet retrain their OOH staff.

[cavillas]

I believe their OOH staff are not employed by Idnet so they have little control over them other than giving their way of working to the ooh suppliers.  I also think Idnet may be re-evaluating their ooh connections.

[Lance]

Good for you Gary, Brian didn't afford me the same service, he told me I would have to phone BT myself even although there was no BB connection.

The difference is Gary's phone line is also with IDNet.

[Rik]

I believe their OOH staff are not employed by Idnet so they have little control over them other than giving their way of working to the ooh suppliers.  I also think Idnet may be re-evaluating their ooh connections.

You would be right, Alf.

[Ardua]

Just to close out my input to this thread. Having never used TalkTalk for telephone fault resolution before I confess that I was slightly worried. This morning I rang them (India) for an update; a well-spoken young man candidly admitted that the person that I spoke to yesterday had referred my fault to the wrong department in BT. He said that he had rectified the mistake and I could expect a resolution well within the SLA 72 hours. Two hours later - after 30 minutes of a flashing DSL light - everything stabilised and I checked my router log. Downstream attenuation had fallen by 50% and speed was back up to 17Mbps. A quiet line test on the phone was, well, 'quiet'. I did speak to one of the FTTC guys working in my street this afternoon, and he said that the exchange was pretty chaotic as they try to fit in the new FTTC equipment. Lots of complaints about failed lines.

I can well see some advantages in having a 'one-stop' re-seller for BB and phone. That said, how do I get my phone fixed if the ISP's support team is in OOH's mode. At least, I was able to phone TalkTalk when I noticed that I had a line fault and  I got an immediate line test and response even though it was outside normal hours. They also seemed very interested in my 100% increase in downstream attenuation as a further indication of a possible fault outwith the premises.

[sobranie]

I believe their OOH staff are not employed by Idnet so they have little control over them other than giving their way of working to the ooh suppliers.  I also think Idnet may be re-evaluating their ooh connections.

To put it another way, IDNet do not have an OOH support do they?   Maybe they are a bunch of script jockeys based in India somewhere for all we know!
The OOH support was heralded with the approriate fan fares etc and, whilst I haven't availed myself of their 'Expertise'   I find myself awaiting the long Christmas period (sans day staff) with more than a little trepidation.

[Simon]

To put it another way, IDNet do not have an OOH support do they?   Maybe they are a bunch of script jockeys based in India somewhere for all we know!

The OOH support service is UK based.

[sobranie]

The OOH support service is UK based.

OK, fair enough but if they're not employed by IDNet what is the ******* point?     Talk about a Sop to Cerberus from IDNet Towers.

[Lona]

All I can add to that is that the OOH support are not doing Idnet's reputation any favours.

[pctech]

You would be right, Alf.

I do find it a little concerning when reputable companies put parts of their customer service function in the hands of an outsourcer as it may prove counter productive to the original intention of improving perceived service because:

The agents may have limited knowledge of the company's product and dependent technologies or even the market segment.
An agent working for the outsourcer but handling several contracts may have less concern than an employee of the customer company because they have no stake in it or may not feel any loyalty to it, I've never worked for an outsourcer but when dealing with certain companies that do outsource the customer contact I've sometimes got the feeling that the person answering the phone couldn't care what my issue was or whether I reamined a customer or not.

My personal opinion is if you can't staff a service with your own staff then don't offer it as you have limited control over a third party whose actions could do very severe damage to a reputation you've worked hard to build and maintain.

[Ardua]

All I can add to that is that the OOH support are not doing Idnet's reputation any favours.

I wholeheartedly agree. Technical support or customer service is the much-heralded selling point of many small/niche ISPs. I well understand that small companies cannot bear the cost of support models offered by BT, Sky and TalkTalk. That said, let me give you an instance of good support from a small company. A couple of months ago, my MacBook Pro gave up the ghost. Whilst out shopping with my good lady, I noticed that a small computer store had a sign in its window saying that it was an Accredited Apple Support Partner so I popped in for a chat. A very helpful young lady checked the details of my MacBook and told me that the fault was most likely a failed NVidia card. Apple had a replacement programme in place and would have paid for the repair if my computer was less than 4 years old. Sadly, mine wasn't. Rather than say 'tough' she gave me a number to ring at AppleCare and suggested the arguments that I should use to get a repair exemption. The bottom-line is that Apple sent out a new card; the company got £50 for fitting it; I have a serviceable MacBook and I am not a £1000 poorer. Will I use this company again when I next replace an Apple product - you betcha.

[pctech]

Are you now back up and running Lona?

[Lona]

Are you now back up and running Lona?

Yes Mitch, thanks for asking, I've had no further problems but can't see any difference is speed. My speed was always around 7mb and still is so I guess my exchange can't make it any faster but it's OK.  I would rather have reliability to speed anyhow.