BB connection but no phone connection

Rik · Dec 12, 2011, 15:41:15

IDNet have arranged a broadband connection with BT for you, Lona, if that were not working, they would be dealing with BT about the problem. That order has been fulfilled.

They haven't arranged a voice connection, so if the BT engineer who made the wiring changes hasn't done the job correctly, the only people who can get it fixed are BT, as your voice provider.

I'm sorry, but you must accept that there is simply nothing a third-party can do about your voice line. IDNet have the same standing with BT on that as I do. If I phoned BT on your behalf, they would tell me they couldn't talk to me, and they'd be right. If your voice line was with IDNet, they'd be chewing lumps out of BT for you, but it's not.

Lona · Dec 12, 2011, 16:31:20

I should not be left without a voice line and it is a result of an order which Idnet requested to BT. If I pay Idnet for a service which has left me with no voice line then Idnet has not fulfilled the order as it is of no use having BB without the use of my phone.

Had Idnet let me know that this could happen, I would not have upgraded, therefore I still say they should be contacting BT because they are BT's customer and I am Idnet's customer.

pctech · Dec 12, 2011, 17:04:26

I agree its crazy Lona but most of what BT do is but it is as has been said.

If you move your line rental to IDNet they can get it sorted for you but at the moment it's up to BT.

When I upgraded to ADSL Max a line card failed and the ISP I was with at the time told me that a BT fault report had indicated a line card had failed, I was without connection and the voice side was with BT retail at the time so plugged a phone in and rang 150 to be told there's nothing that they could do to sort out my ADSL problem because the ISP I was with was the customer and not BT Retail.

I next found a number for BT Wholesale and called that, again I was told that they did not have to give me any information as I was not the customer as far as they were concerned.

After a bit of persuasion the ISP persued the issue with BT management and it was fixed by the following Saturday.

Best thing you can do is get your broadband and phone line from one supplier so they can take care of everything.

IDNet can't really be held responsible for BT's mistake or equipment failure, as I've said above, they are just a customer, like you.

Lona · Dec 12, 2011, 17:29:08

QuoteIDNet can't really be held responsible for BT's mistake or equipment failure, as I've said above, they are just a customer, like you.

I have just had BT phone me on my mobile and they said it was Idnet's responsibility to see that my BB connection was set up properly and that includes voice. As there is no fault as such on my line BT engineers have tested the line and there is no fault. The fault is the change over to 21CN which interfered with my voice part of my line. As my order was made via Idnet it is they who should have monitored that it went smoothly. As you say yourself, Idnet is BT's customer and BT did not set up the 21CN properly. I should not have to contact BT myself as I am Idnet's customer.

pctech · Dec 12, 2011, 17:31:53

Maybe I've misunderstood, do you now pay IDNet for your line rental Lona?

Lona · Dec 12, 2011, 17:43:21

Quote from: pctech on Dec 12, 2011, 17:31:53
Maybe I've misunderstood, do you now pay IDNet for your line rental Lona?

No you didn't misunderstand. My line is with BT. Lets put it another way, If I go into a shop and buy a dress and the seams are all burst, the shop does not expect me to go to China to complain about the fault. I am the shops customer so it's up to them to sort out the problem. Idnet booked BT to change my connection. BT screwed up the connection which left me with no voice on my phone so it's up to Idnet to make BT sort it out, regardless of who supplies my phone line.

pctech · Dec 12, 2011, 17:44:42

Your line rental (whomever it is paid to) covers maintenance of the copper loop circuit coming into your home and the voice service meaning you should be able to get a dial tone and be able to dial out unless of course you have set call barring etc.

Problem comes when a fault like this occurs as BT Wholesale will only take voice fault reports from the company whom you pay line rental to and if that's BT Retail then there's really nothing that IDNet can do, it has to be persued via BT Retail no matter what someone ringing from a call centre may tell you.

pctech · Dec 12, 2011, 17:47:42

Quote from: Lona on Dec 12, 2011, 17:43:21
No you didn't misunderstand. My line is with BT. Lets put it another way, If I go into a shop and buy a dress and the seams are all burst, the shop does not expect me to go to China to complain about the fault. I am the shops customer so it's up to them to sort out the problem. Idnet booked BT to change my connection. BT screwed up the connection which left me with no voice on my phone so it's up to Idnet to make BT sort it out, regardless of who supplies my phone line.

As I've said it's crazy and I don't disagree with you at all, all I'm trying to explain as well as others here is that this is not IDNet trying to make things difficult for you, this is the way it is, BT Wholesale will not take a fault report for the voice side of a line from IDNet.

I'm looking for all the numbers you need and will PM you shortly with them.

pctech · Dec 12, 2011, 17:58:43

Lona you should have a PM.

Rik · Dec 12, 2011, 18:00:34

Quote from: Lona on Dec 12, 2011, 17:29:08
I have just had BT phone me on my mobile and they said it was Idnet's responsibility to see that my BB connection was set up properly and that includes voice.

BT are not telling you the truth. Who do you pay for calls and voice line rental? That company is the only one that can talk to BT Wholesale on your behalf.

QuoteThe fault is the change over to 21CN which interfered with my voice part of my line. As my order was made via Idnet it is they who should have monitored that it went smoothly. As you say yourself, Idnet is BT's customer and BT did not set up the 21CN properly. I should not have to contact BT myself as I am Idnet's customer.

Your ADSL connection is working fine. That's the only part that IDNet have a responsibility for, or can do anything about. Ultimately, BT make the rules. You buy your ADSL from IDNet who buy from BT Wholesale. You buy your phone from BT Retail, who also buy from BT Wholesale. BT Wholesale pay BT Openreach to do the work, but BT Wholesale will only deal with their customer. When it comes to the voice side, IDNet are not the customer, so BT Wholesale won't deal with them. It's a messy, cack-handed system, but it is the system we all have to live with it.

Sorry, but there's nothing more I an say about the situation. The only two solutions I see are for you to contact BT or to move your voice line to IDNet.

Lona · Dec 12, 2011, 18:04:04

I wish I had never got involved with this upgrade as neither party want to take responsiblity for the fault. I have now to have a call out from an engineer and have been advised that it could cost me £130 and it won't happen until Thursday.

All I can say is that a Black gentleman's left leg is neither right nor is it fair.

PS I've tried to reply to your PM but got this message

User 'pctech' has blocked your personal message.

pctech · Dec 12, 2011, 18:05:36

Lona rest assured, if you can't make a voice call you won't be charged a penny.

pctech · Dec 12, 2011, 18:06:40

Quote from: Lona on Dec 12, 2011, 18:04:04
I wish I had never got involved with this upgrade as neither party want to take responsiblity for the fault. I have now to have a call out from an engineer and have been advised that it could cost me £130 and it won't happen until Thursday.

All I can say is that a Black gentleman's left leg is neither right nor is it fair.

PS I've tried to reply to your PM but got this message

User 'pctech' has blocked your personal message.

Itchy trigger finger when sorting out my preferences, I'll go and fix it now.

Polchraine · Dec 12, 2011, 18:17:39

The fact that IDNet cannot discuss your voice problems with BT is NOT the fault of either IDNet or BT but OFCOM. They make the rules and BT &c have to abide by them.

pctech · Dec 12, 2011, 18:24:40

BT are difficult to deal with at the best of times anyway, I'd say that sometimes it is preferable to deal with automated systems but theirs takes the cake and the biscuit barrel as it tries everything to avoid putting you through to a human.

My other landline is coming back to IDNet when my BT contract expires.

Lona · Dec 12, 2011, 19:02:09

I don't like keeping my eggs all in one basket as I could leave Idnet someday and then I would still have my phoneline with them. I have a good deal going at the moment with BT for my phoneline as I only pay £120 up front and nothing else for a year's rental. I make all my calls via 18185.

pctech · Dec 12, 2011, 19:17:19

Well unless you move your broadband to BT the situation will remain as it is now, IDNet for broadband and BT for line maintenance and voice issues.

I'm not sure what further advice or assistance we can offer here other than our own experiences of going through similar issues, noone says they agree with it but these are the current rules as has been pointed out.

All I will say is this, in my experience it has been better dealing with the smaller providers such as IDNet and in my case, Zen than BT retail, both of the two offer one month contracts as opposed to the BT lock in.

I moved my other line to BT Retail to take advantage of the £120 line rental saver but this has proved to be a false economy really so that line is coming back to IDNet.

Neither of the two smaller operators has sent me round the houses with regard to any queries, I rang BT once for a query about a calling plan and it took me 15 minutes to get through to someone who sounded as though I was inconveniencing them so I dread to think what would happen if I was in your situation.

I take your point about being on a good deal, but the deal is only good when the service works and when it doesn't it is backed up by good customer service.

Technical Ben · Dec 12, 2011, 19:24:48

Think of it this way Lona. IDNet sent you a parcel in the post (BroadBand). The message on the parcel said "will collect at the post office" as it's too big to fit in the post box. The post office, being not to clever, decides to divert ALL your mail to be collected, including letters (voice calls). This is a massive inconvenience to you. However, IDNet can do nothing to solve it, as the post office only talk to the addressee. Now it's even worse if the Post office go "Nope, no note here saying to redirect your post"...

Is the above IDNets fault? Well, even though the error would never exist if IDNet never sent the parcel? But the fault was that of the post office.

Except in this instance, it's not a note saying to redirect your post, it's a wire or button been pressed in the exchange.

pctech · Dec 12, 2011, 19:31:00

Good analogy Ben.

Not sure what else can be said really.

Lona · Dec 12, 2011, 19:40:18

Well there is a moral to that story and that is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". I should have stayed with Adsl and saved myself a lot of heartache. I have had to put £30 on my mobile phone as it's pay as you go and I only ever use it when I'm out in the car by myself. I've told BT that I will be sending them my bill.

pctech · Dec 12, 2011, 19:45:21

The 21CN upgrade would have happened anyway, neither you nor IDNet could have prevented it, I'm using ADSL over 21CN at the moment.

I think there's just been some sloppy engineering work here or a component has failed by coincidence, the line card failed on me during an upgrade to ADSL Max from the fixed 512 service.

Steve · Dec 12, 2011, 19:52:33

Indeed I 'm surprised the change hadn't occurred already The usual ISP policy is to move all connections to 21cn when it becomes available. Although now it would appear that shoddy engineering work has caused unnecessary frustration.

pctech · Dec 12, 2011, 19:56:30

I just got a mail informing me of the switchover and that my connection would go down overnight (went down for at least two hours) but that my service would not change.

ADSL2+ is a happy side effect of the equipment refresh, 21CN is to help BT manage its equipment more easily.

pctech · Dec 12, 2011, 19:58:59

Not sure I can add anymore to this thread as have reinforced what others have said and added my own experiences, I wish Lona a speedy resolution but as they say on Dragons' Den "I'm out"

Gary · Dec 12, 2011, 20:03:17

About a week ago I had my ADSL upgraded to ADSL 2+ I lost voice as well, thankfully it came back, my care alarm went bonkers. I called up IDnet who provide both and Brian made a call, (this was before voice came back) he cancelled the BT exchange engineer who at 7:30am the next morning disconnected me to check

I know you have a great deal with BT but having all my eggs in one basket made life really simple. BT because you call India is a pain I never want to have to go though again, as its costly from a mobile and you never get things sorted first time it seems, the system is convoluted and frustrating. I hope your voice gets sorted quickly Lona, but as has been said, its nothing to do with IDNet.