ADSL+2

Den · Jan 29, 2012, 21:47:00

I have just spotted that my exchange upgrades to ADSL2+ on the 31st May 2012. Do we have to apply to move across or do Idnet do it automatically for us and are the monthly fees the same?

Simon · Jan 29, 2012, 21:53:13

The monthly charge is the same, Den, but you get a greater download allowance. I think you'd probably have to drop them an email if you wanted to upgrade.

Den · Jan 29, 2012, 21:59:56

Is upgrading a good idea and does it make much of a diference. Is it stable or are there any problems? I have been told that this area is going to have fibre wiring in the next 12 months so I don't understand why they are moving up top ADSL2+ at this time.

psp83 · Jan 29, 2012, 22:03:43

Quote from: Den on Jan 29, 2012, 21:59:56
Is upgrading a good idea and does it make much of a diference. Is it stable or are there any problems? I have been told that this area is going to have fibre wiring in the next 12 months so I don't understand why they are moving up top ADSL2+ at this time.

When I changed from ADSL to ADSL2+ I didn't get any increase on downstream but I got an increase in upstream.

If you get good line stats on ADSL then there's a chance you will see an improvement.

ADSL2+ is more prone to noise though so it could make your connection worse.

Steve · Jan 29, 2012, 22:10:52

If you normally sync 5-7Mb on adslmax you should see a modest improvement in throughput on adsl2+,even reprofiled back to adslmax on adsl2+ as Simon said you get the increased allowances. FTTC has a limited range from the nearest cab and not all cabinets are enabled plus if you connect straight to the exchange you'll not get FTTC either. I'm on FTTC and I hear finally my exchange is being upgraded to adsl2+ in March 2012 so a similar scenario but in the reverse order.

sparky · Jan 30, 2012, 10:44:26

Quoteeven reprofiled back to adslmax on adsl2+ as Simon said you get the increased allowances

That's what happened to me. My exchange was recently "upgraded" and I LOST 1mb on my profile. OK, I got the extra allowances, but I could have lived without those. If you live a long way from the exchange like I do, your more than likely come out of it worse off. Some upgrade!

My profile dropped from 3.5mb to 2.5mb. My noise margin is now locked at 15db. Previously it fluctuated between 6db and 9db, yes I had a slightly unstable connection, but at least I had the extra speed. I now have a more stable connection but at the loss of 1mb. I wish I had the choice, it just happened for me.

armadillo · Jan 31, 2012, 22:47:06

I am wondering if BT's upgrade of an exchange to 21CN can actually improve its adsl max service too, as an incidental side-effect.

I am on adsl max. For over a year, I have been syncing at 7616 with a noise margin of about 9dB and a throughput of about 6.5Mb/s. Kitz has long reported that my exchange had no plans to upgrade to 21CN. Today, this afternoon, I could not connect to any websites on either of two PCs despite being in sync.

I rebooted the router and I am now syncing at 8064 at 32dB downstream attenuation with a noise margin of 14.3dB, full internet connectivity restored and Networx measured an average throughput of 7.2Mb/s over a 10 minute period of downloading. I then checked Kitz and found my exchange has been upgraded to 21CN.

Is there a likely link between that upgrade, my loss of internet and its sudden improvement beyond anything achieved over the past year? I also believe that interleaving must have been removed for my router to sync at 8064. Perhaps, for some reason, BT managed simply to remove interleaving and the 21CN aspect is irrelevant. What do you guys think?

Steve · Jan 31, 2012, 22:58:29

You can get 8064 with interleave still on but that usually depends on the router. I'm interested that you've got margin to play with, I wonder if you've been switched to 21CN. Has the upstream sync changed and also can you see the router adsl modulation from the stats.

armadillo · Jan 31, 2012, 23:05:12

Well Steve, I just checked with DMT and interleaving is indeed still on. Depth 32 down and 4 up. Upstream sync has not changed. It is still 448 kb/s. How would I spot adsl modulation in the stats? I am not clear what to look for. I see no mention of "modulation" in the Netgear stats, Router Stats Lite nor DMT. But I am not sure what I am looking for.
If modulation is the same as bit loading then this is it

Niall · Jan 31, 2012, 23:49:34

You suck Den, I pointed this out to you ages ago

To be exact I was moaning that your exchange gets upgraded before the main one. Samknows says 2012 for the main one, but I've also read it's June on (I think, I've had some wine

) the BT PDF thread.

Steve · Feb 01, 2012, 06:52:40

Quote from: armadillo on Jan 31, 2012, 23:05:12
Well Steve, I just checked with DMT and interleaving is indeed still on. Depth 32 down and 4 up. Upstream sync has not changed. It is still 448 kb/s. How would I spot adsl modulation in the stats? I am not clear what to look for. I see no mention of "modulation" in the Netgear stats, Router Stats Lite nor DMT. But I am not sure what I am looking for.
If modulation is the same as bit loading then this is it

The adsl modulation is comments like g.dmt which is adslmax , g.992.5 is adsl2+

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.992.1

Steve · Feb 01, 2012, 07:40:58

Looking at DMT again the profile is adslmax, if you get adsl2+ you should see a good benefit on downstream throughput. Plus interleave could come off as the line is short and noise free if that downstream margin is being reported correctly.

armadillo · Feb 01, 2012, 10:33:07

Thanks Steve. Yes, I thought it was still adsl max. My question was more to do with whether the exchange upgrade to 21CN could have been responsible for the improvement in its 20CN service.

Perhaps I would see a further improvement in speeds if I moved onto adsl 2+. Or I might have all the problems Lona had. I am a believer in "if it ain't broke...". As I am content with a 7Mb/s throughput and am much more interested in a stable internet and phone connection, I shall probably stay with adsl max until I am forced to switch (e.g. by BT withdrawing adsl max). I am still on Windows XP too

I am also reluctant to do anything, given that this is what happens whenever I get an incoming phone call (even if all phones and phone lines are disconnected, so the only thing connected to the master socket is my broadband)

There is clearly something wrong with the line (bearing in mind this happens even without a phone connected) but the router manages to stay in sync so I would rather not mess with anything for the sake of a possible increase in throughput.

armadillo · Feb 02, 2012, 17:56:42

Well all is now clear. I contacted IDNet support. They said I have been automatically moved onto the 21CN network but I am still on adsl max. But I get the increased bandwidth allowance for the same price. Seems like a great deal. I get a slightly higher sync and throughput and a bandwidth increase from 30/60 to 40/140 for no increase in cost. They also said that my line would be unlikely to give a speed increase if I moved to adsl 2+. Given that higher upload sync is no use to me at all and I have a stable setup now, I am definitely staying on adsl max.

So re your original question Den, looks like you might automatically get moved to 21CN and get the higher bandwidth allowance for the same cost in May but only get adsl2+ if you ask for it.

Lance · Feb 02, 2012, 18:12:07

Just to be clear for your understanding, your line is modulated to appear as ADSL Max, which is different to being an ADSL Max line.

PS I'm surprised they say you wouldn't get much of an increase in speed. I would expect quite a significant increase (about double on downstream I guestimate based on your noise margin). If it doesn't work out, you can just get your line remodulated to Max. Nothing to lose by trying it out.

Steve · Feb 02, 2012, 18:21:18

I agree Lance the line is looking healthy on the downstream margin with plenty of room for 'noise' ,looking at Kitz with regard the downstream attenuation of 32db the expected sync with adsl2+ should be around 13000kps , although the 'blips' may indeed cause trouble.

armadillo · Feb 02, 2012, 18:28:57

Thanks Lance and Steve. I still think I shall stay with adsl max modulation. Those blips could be a real problem and I am surprised they are not a problem already. Maybe nothing to lose except the frustration of having to get the modulation switched back again if adsl 2+ does not work out, and maybe some loss of profile until it settled down again.

A doubling of speed would not be any use to me - 7mb/s is plenty for my needs and I do not care about latency either. Stability and bandwidth are my priorities. I shall leave things as they are.