Chances of changes to packages? Might have to jump ship!....

shorn · Feb 10, 2012, 12:43:28

Hi all,

I have been with IDNet now for just over a year on the Fibre package. Only option for a decent BB connection in my area as I only get 1.5mb through normal BB.
I have been very pleased with the service, and the consistent solid speed that I have been getting. I have a colleague that signed for Infinity a few months after I went with IDnet, and he talks of fluctuating speeds, presumably down to their DLM.

However, I am now in two minds about what to do. I recently subscribed to Netflix, and this certainly has a big impact on my peak usage. I am on Home SuperPro Fibre, @ 47.99 a month. Something that I think represents reasonable value for the quality service. But this imposes a peak cap of 80GB. With the use of Netflix, and iTunes rentals, iTunes Cloud services (TV programs and music) it is just starting to get quite tight. Unfortunately without going up to (an expensive) business package, I no longer think that it will continue to meet my demand.

What are the chances that IDnet might tweak their packages, or at very least peak time hours?

Looking at other providers, (NOT BT

) there seems to be better value out there.
ADSL24 do a 40/02 package, 60GB peak, unlimited off-peak, but weekend hours do not count towards your peak usage. This would probably be fine for me, and is £10 cheaper a month!

I don't really want to move, but can see myself being forced to.
No reflection of the service!

john · Feb 10, 2012, 14:23:37

I've been with Idnet for 5 years now and have also been happy with the service. It has been slow sometimes and even unavailable occasionally but probably most performance problems are not the fault of Idnet.

I do not subscribe to Netflix but I do have two TV's which I could connect to the internet to access other services (i.e the BBC iPlayer) but am reluctant to do so as it would take me over my download allowance. Whilst I've been content to pay for a reasonably good service I did expect that one day having a download allowance (at least at the current limits) would become too restrictive given the increasing online media content so I have also been looking at what other companies are offering but am prepared to wait a bit longer to see if Idnet introduce review their current packages.

Whichever company one considers no doubt somebody has, or know someone who has, had a poor experience and though it's common for BT to be criticised on here I do know friends who are very pleased with them. Most criticism of BT appears to be of their customer service (or lack of it) rather than the product itself but once it's installed and up and running then many may never need to contact their Customer service anyway.

One of the problems I would have with BT though is that the Master socket into which I plug my router is in the hall and it would not be practicable to run an ethernet cable from there to my TV's so I would like it moving to at least one of the rooms with a TV but no doubt BT would charge a significant sum for doing this. However I do believe that for best performance then fibre (at least using the one outside on the pavement) is going to be necessary in the long run rather than the one to the BT cabinet at the end of the road and which uses the existing cable going into the house that was installed sometime prior to 1980 when we first moved in.

sebt · Feb 27, 2012, 16:53:15

Have to chime in on this one. First off I've been very happy with my IDnet service and particularly with the support and staff. I'm currently on the ADSL2 Home pro service at £25 pm, paying a year in advance each time for my free month. I'm now on my 3rd year.

I was of course very happy to hear about the FTTC service coming to IDnet, which is now available at my exchange and a few friends have already gone over to it via BT. My friends are all seeing great speeds; typically 38M down and 9M up, pretty much all the time.

So it's time for me to upgrade to FTTC. My main reason for doing it is the upload performance, since I am a software (android / web) developer working from home. But I also have family members who are routinely using the broadband for youtube, iplayer etc.. I've been happy to keep my family in line with respect to daytime usage, but it has caused a few arguments here and there, however the advantages of Idnet have balanced this hassle until now.

The problem is this: switching over to FTTC via IDnet results in losing 10M on my daytime cap on a similar package (£28 pm). On top of this, there's the £95 setup fee, and finally the 12 month lockin. Given that typically I'm sailing close to my current 40M daytime cap this feels like a dealbreaker for me, and the next package up is starting to get expensive.

Honestly, I feel stuck between a rock and a hardplace at the moment. I really can't stand BT and their dreadful support, call centres and other BS. However, my friends are enjoying a great service at a total cost of £35 pm with no caps and no up-front fee. I'm trying to balance up the loss of family arguments against doing a deal with the "devil" that is BT, and I'm currently undecided, but I'd love to stay with IDnet. If only the packages could be improved.

So here's what I'd like to see. More generous daytime usage caps on fibre please. How about 50M on the £28 package and 80M on the £35 service. And why not bump up the night time allowances too, since IDnet's night time starts at midnight it's hardly going to cause contention on your network. Either that or starting the night time period from midnight to 9pm. Or even both - hey, you don't ask, you don't get

So I hope this will be taken seriously. I really like everything about IDnet's model but I feel that somehow I'm being short-changed here; lower daytime cap means more family arguments, and I'm paying more for the privilege. Plus I can't switch out after a month if I'm not happy.

I'd love to hear the thoughts of others and particularly IDnet themselves.

Seb

Rik · Feb 27, 2012, 17:23:14

You may need to ask IDNet directly, but I can tell you that the contract is imposed on them by BT, it would be financial suicide not to tie customers in as it could leave IDNet paying for 11 months of the contract. Similarly, the activation fee is charged to ISPs, they can either hide it in the monthly charge, or charge it directly, but it's a cost that they can't really afford to absorb - the only way to do so would be to cut costs elsewhere, eg offshore call centres.

sebt · Feb 27, 2012, 17:49:08

For sure Rik. My point was more along the lines that the £95 and year lockin are "kickers" rather than dealbreakers in themselves. The focus of my email was more concerned with IDnet's packages and capping structure in particular.

My feeling is that most people are fairly savvy with the idea of one-offs like costs and lockins. It's ongoing monthly dripfeeding out of bank accounts and ongoing monthly constraints (like caps) that hurt more. To translate this generalisation to the topic, people upgrading from (say) ADSL2 to FTTC will want to see at least their current service level matched for the price. At least that's how it feels to me. All this speed is pretty useless if it's constrained by more draconian caps - as others have pointed out - and particularly now that more people are using online video services like netflix and iplayer. Something's gotta give or IDnet may find themselves in the unfortunate position of customers switching away. Browsing through these forums, I've already seen a number of posts to that affect, and who knows how many more will be thinking of doing the same without registering that sentiment here at idnetters.

As a side issue it's obviously unfair if BTW can impose this on "the competition" but not on BT Retail, if so there's something anti-competitive going on that probably needs to be raised in the public psyche. More than likely what is going on is that, as you suggest, BTR being a larger corporation are just absorbing the BTW installation cost.

I hope that IDnet will at least engage in the discussion.

Seb

Rik · Feb 27, 2012, 17:57:54

They are certainly aware of the market pressures, the posts you mention have been brought to their attention. I suspect all niche ISPs will find themselves squeezed in the current climate, they have little room to manoeuvre given the charges they receive from BTw. It's one of the reasons that IDNet have started to use Telefonica as an alternative supplier, though there's no fibre option there as yet.

sebt · Feb 27, 2012, 18:04:11

By way of some gentle encouragement I've tweeted them as well

Rik · Feb 27, 2012, 18:05:22

Email might be more successful.

sebt · Feb 27, 2012, 18:09:13

How very nineties.. maybe I'll try that too

I suggested email to some kids the other day and they looked at me strangely. For some it seems facebook IS the internet

Rik · Feb 27, 2012, 18:20:34

I know what you mean. I'm still a dinosaur though.

Ardua · Feb 27, 2012, 18:25:08

Quote from: Rik on Feb 27, 2012, 17:57:54
They are certainly aware of the market pressures, the posts you mention have been brought to their attention. I suspect all niche ISPs will find themselves squeezed in the current climate, they have little room to manoeuvre given the charges they receive from BTw. It's one of the reasons that IDNet have started to use Telefonica as an alternative supplier, though there's no fibre option there as yet.

I had a chat with the OR man working on the new FTTC cabinet in my street last week and he confirmed that all that is needed to get FTTC up and running is the tying in of the optical connections and final testing: '2 to 3 weeks at the most' he said. So it looks like decision time is coming for me as well. Looking at two 'Which' 2011 recommended ISPs, one has just doubled its FTTC peak download limit from 50 to 100GB (9am to 11pm) with unlimited downloads at night, and another offers 120GB for less than IDNet's ADSL2+ 40GB package. Both charge less than IDNet for FTTC installation and one provides a free router. I agree with Sebt that the cost/benefit equation is a difficult one to argue and I hope that IDNet will look carefully at what other niche ISPs are offering.

sebt · Feb 27, 2012, 18:53:50

Quote from: Ardua on Feb 27, 2012, 18:25:08
I had a chat with the OR man working on the new FTTC cabinet in my street last week and he confirmed that all that is needed to get FTTC up and running is the tying in of the optical connections and final testing: '2 to 3 weeks at the most' he said. So it looks like decision time is coming for me as well. Looking at two 'Which' 2011 recommended ISPs, one has just doubled its FTTC peak download limit from 50 to 100GB (9am to 11pm) with unlimited downloads at night, and another offers 120GB for less than IDNet's ADSL2+ 40GB package. Both charge less than IDNet for FTTC installation and one provides a free router. I agree with Sebt that the cost/benefit equation is a difficult one to argue and I hope that IDNet will look carefully at what other niche ISPs are offering.

Thanks for chiming in Ardua. Balancing the argument slightly I think that most IDnet subscribers understand what they're getting for the extra few bucks and caps. But on the other hand, there comes a point where the "costs" (meant collectively) are a bridge too far, so to speak. I don't know to which ISPs you refer, but lets keep in mind IDnet's policy of not oversubscribing their network backbone and not employing any kind of traffic shaping or throttling schemes - so far as I know only Zen and IDnet are specifically clear about this as a "feature" of their broadband service.

My feeling is that between the two extremes, lets say "cheap as you like" and "corporate faceless" at one end and "boutique, niche, specialist" at the other, there is some room for manoeuvre to make things better for subscribers and in turn for IDnet to be more competitive. I have no idea how close IDnet are to oversubscribing their network capacity, but if there's any room there to improve things, they should act quickly. A whole bunch of us are at the point of deciding what to do re. moving to 40M FTTC. I doubt there's room to double the caps - though I'll happily be proven wrong! - but surely there's room to significantly improve them, while shifting the night time usage time back a little to say 10pm so that families can feel some benefit? I for one would be happy to pay £95 and be locked in for the year if such improvements could be made.

There is also the argument of moving with the times. More and more people want to stream content these days, and tight caps are the enemy of modern internet use. I understand the need for them in IDnet's business model, but these caps must adjust to the typical requirements of the modern user.

Seb

Steve · Feb 27, 2012, 18:58:57

Perhaps I'm wrong but I believe cost of FTTC is bound to come down but the question is when.

pctech · Feb 27, 2012, 19:00:26

Once it can be made wires only like ADSL was but that won't happen for a while yet.

TheMonkey · Apr 03, 2012, 10:27:02

I went 25gig over my limit last month. OUCH! We have just gone fibre in my town and I'm not sure I can justify IDNet's usage anymore. It never used to bother me but I've been downloading more movies and TV Shows than ever before for my little boy.

When I see all the good reviews for Sky and their launch on the 12th for unilimited downloads for £20 a month I can't miss that sort of opportunity.

My exchange wont get Sky Fibre yet so I will hold out just in case IDNet pull something out of the bag.

pctech · Apr 03, 2012, 10:52:56

One of the things I like about Zen is the hnard capping so its not possible to run up a bill.

As for Sky my thoughts are that it will only be unlimited until such time as they get swamped with heavy downloaders and then it will be heavily traffic managed or they will start a policy of warning people aboiut their usage (colleague got regular calls from O2 about his usage and was actually served with his MAC from three other ISPs, he's now moved to Sky)

Simon · Apr 03, 2012, 11:35:02

Indeed, if it looks too good to be true, it usually is...

pctech · Apr 03, 2012, 11:39:23

O2/BE started out as unthrottled and unlimited.

Lesson number 1 when doing a networking course is that network usage has to be monitored and managed, for a service to be unlimited the bandwidth has to be charged for so that it can be ploughed back into upgrades.

mervl · Apr 03, 2012, 12:16:11

I think the point about Sky is they have, I understand, been doing major upgrades to their backbone network over the last 12 months. That doesn't mean that there can't be local issues, I surmise on those exchanges where they use BTWholesale links to connect to their network. But in those cases won't everyone else be suffering too (apart from TT where they have their own infrastructure, perhaps)?

All of my disconnections are problems within the BT Wholesale network (rather than the OR local loop or the IDNet links beyond the PoP), as far as I can tell. You might say that BTWholesale (presumably because they're BT) must always beat the Sky network hands down, but I'm not so sure. And neither do I believe that IDNet (or anyone else) has magical powers over BTWholesale to ensure they always do the upgrades they'd like.

EDIT: I suppose the downside is that Sky do have that useful prohibition in their t&c's against business use to fall back on if things got tight!

pctech · Apr 03, 2012, 12:37:39

When they purchased easynet they a;ready got quite a well equipped network.

BT Access links on O2/BE and Sky are generally poorly performing because they don't invest in the number of BT hostlinks required to support the demand on these cirsuits.

Trouble is that there will come a time where the costs of usage outstrip what they are earning in service charges and can only subsidise the service with revenue from the satellite TV subs up to a certain point

mervl · Apr 03, 2012, 13:02:02

Quote from: pctech on Apr 03, 2012, 12:37:39
BT Access links on O2/BE and Sky are generally poorly performing because they don't invest in the number of BT hostlinks required to support the demand on these cirsuits.

Just out of interest what evidence do you have to support that for Sky? I understood that where exchanges had been identified with problems Sky had given upgrade dates. But just to confirm I'm referring to the exchanges (usually 21CN) where they'll be offering FTTC services, and not their 20CN access services.

pctech · Apr 03, 2012, 15:05:13

Not 100% on Sky I have to admit but I know it was an issue on O2/BE

stevenrw · Apr 11, 2012, 15:27:19

I've been with IDnet for several years and I have to say that it would take something pretty cataclysmic for me to jump ship. However, like many on this thread, I also feel that their usage limits for FTTC are not moving with the times. As a Sky TV subscriber, they have just introduced Anytime+ which gives you the option to view from a library of movies/docus/entertainment shows. Most of these require you to stream or download and there is no facility (as yet) to schedule unattended downloads, so you have to get up early or go to bed late to start the download.
I also have no problem with the lockin period or (albeit grudgingly) the installation charge, but usage is normally driven by the products available.
The advent of internet TV's has really put pressure on the smaller ISPs I think.
That said, I'd still rather have the usage restrictions than traffic shaping or even offshore call centres (shudder).
Now THAT would be classed as cataclysmic in my book.
IDnet are certainly only too aware of the pressures commercially, but maybe a small increase in charges would make a realistic increase in usage possible?
BTW - has anybody had the option of the increased speed (up to 80Meg) on Infinity yet? Will IDnet be offering this I wonder?

Steve · Apr 11, 2012, 16:15:24

The 80/20 is available from tomorrow, IDNet will be offering the option although I'm not aware of pricing other than business users who I believe for them it's a no cost option. I'm not sure it's for me at I won't see much benefit downstream.

sebt · May 10, 2012, 03:21:59

I'm done considering BT. Whilst they may be one of the cheapest for fibre, I had another nightmare with their call centres the other day when my phone line got some water in it from the inclement weather - again!! The idea of having to deal with that call centre nonsense for my broadband needs is too much to bear (I'll save myself the indignity of telling the full story unless anyone really wants to hear it). Thankfully I never use my landline for anything but broadband, though the irony that I need a BT landline just to have broadband isn't lost on me.

Anyway, back on topic... I took a look at Zen's pricing and model the other day. Their caps - 100G and 200G for the packages I'm considering, are 24/7 and not subdivided peak and offpeak, which may be a better model for the modern streaming user. Perhaps IDnet should consider this kind of arrangement, or offer some choices. It's the peaktime caps which are going to hurt me and many other users I suspect (families, TV on-demand via internet, go figure). Their pricing is close enough to IDnet to be wearable - slightly more, but I could cope with that given the lack of a peak time restriction.

Their one-off fee is £60 until end July too, a nice little saving. The only shame is they don't offer a pay 12-months up front bonus, since I want to pay up front for the year in any case.

My IDnet year ends in June so I'm going to hold off until then. Perhaps they have something in the pipeline - here's hoping