Upload limit

Magic Foundry · Feb 25, 2012, 09:18:41

The Inlaws are currently with bt internet and have now started to stream cctv live video onto the net so they can remote view important parts of the farm whilst not there. As you can imagine this has very quickly bust their usage allowance, 10gig a month.
Live streaming, as far as I can tell will need about 100 - 120 gig a month upload. I know Idnet offer unlimited uploads but would 100 or so gig a month be taking the P*** out of that policy, especially with one of the cheaper packages. Should probably ask support, but very often (or should I say always) you guys on the forum give such sensible answers.

Glenn · Feb 25, 2012, 09:21:24

To be honest, I have no idea what IDNet's view would be on that size of uploads.

Steve · Feb 25, 2012, 09:51:28

Just wondering if there's a more efficient way of performing the same task, Den will know.

Glenn · Feb 25, 2012, 10:14:49

Would time lapse at say 10s intervals be an option?

Lance · Feb 25, 2012, 10:53:13

Or some sort of sensor detecting movement. A lot of higher end cameras have detection zones you can programme.

Technical Ben · Feb 25, 2012, 11:57:17

Can you set it to upload only when viewing?
I did not know BT had a limit on uploads, are you sure?

Video will always use vast amounts of bandwidth. Not much of a way around it, other than as said, limiting the feed to 5/10s intervals or limiting it's usage to times you are viewing. Remember to leave it recording locally though.

jezuk1 · Feb 25, 2012, 13:33:51

It sounds like they are uploading the video streams even when not watching. Perhaps adjusting the system so they host the video feed locally - i.e. their connection is only streaming the video when they log in to a web page hosted locally within their farm. There are all sorts of video streaming programs on the market, perhaps one will fit their requirements. It might work out better for them in the long run instead of uploading potentially hundreds of gigabytes per month, most of which will never be seen.

JB · Feb 25, 2012, 14:43:45

If you look at just about every Internet webcam the image is uploaded at regular intervals (usually between 5 and 30 seconds).

The last time I did this the image was sampled once every ten seconds (so 6 frames per minute) and images were uploaded to a server which allowed the latest image to be viewed and also stored past images, up to a set age in the event that subsequent viewing was needed.

Constant streaming requires a massive, and arguably, wasteful amount of bandwidth given that nothing is happening for nearly all of the time.

psp83 · Feb 25, 2012, 15:03:15

Would this be any good http://www.streamby.com/start/ ?

pctech · Feb 25, 2012, 20:19:23

Came across this http://www.videoiq-uk.com/ some years ago when I was looking at getting cameras installed, at the time it was being developed by General Electric in the States

I gather it can be set to record when motion is detected so it may do what you are looking for but probably going to cost a bit though.

Technical Ben · Feb 25, 2012, 23:02:52

There is bound to be a free alternative somewhere. I mean, there cannot be that many streaming services and no one has made an open source version yet.

Magic Foundry · Feb 26, 2012, 02:37:52

Let me just give some more background info: The system we've installed comes as a kit called "Cowcam" which consists of a wireless camera, a receiver back at the farm house and a USB connection from the receiver to connect to a computer. Also included was a software package to enable you to upstream to "http://www.cowcam-online.com/", where once set up, you can log into your account and view the stream via any internet connected computer or 3G phone, Ipad etc. You initially get thirty days free with the kit and then after that it's about £80 pounds a year for them to host the stream.
The system for under £300, I must say worked tremendously well, straight out of the box, three hours to set up and we were online.
The reason we have it that (without going into detail) is that we don't live at the farm house but about six miles away, we currently have cows calving and will shortly have sheep lambing. We or rather my wife is dashing back and too about four times a day and night trying to keep an eye on all the stock. the camera which sits in one of the cow sheds allows us to monitor the stock just about 24 hours a day if needed and has already proved to be invaluable and quite addictive viewing. At work one day last week in a meeting with a major customer, with the stream running on one of the monitors I was still able to keep one eye on the cow shed. Although half way through the meeting one of their team did lean over and ask "You seem a little preoccupied, what on earth are you watching?".
Clearly isn't perfect , although we do spend a lot of time viewing there will still be time when it's streaming and nobody watching, so some sort of viewer activation of the upload stream would be better.
I don't think time lapse would be applicable in that we need to be able to observe how the animals are moving. A cow that's about to calve will give quite a lot of warning in it's behaviour. I don't think we'd pick that up from still images. I imagine we're streaming at around 30 frames a second, we could probably get by with a reduced frame rate but the software provided is to basic to allow that. Also, although we have audio back at the farm house, there's no audio feed from the online content, which we could really do with.
Motion activation and recording would be useful if it was for security purposes but for us probably no advantage.
The solution so far is that we've upgraded the internet account at the farm to an unlimited usage package, but this is clearly a crude solution.
My task now, perhaps starting with a better software package, is to find a way of refining the system without incurring too much cost. I've been looking on the net at what's available but as expected what's free isn't applicable and what's applicable is expensive.
Any continued suggestions, I'd be grateful as this is a little out of my area.
As I'm writing this I can see in the corner of the screen a cow and her calf asleep, all seems well.

FritzBox · Feb 26, 2012, 08:12:26

The couple of cameras I have set up for folk in the past just involved using a DVR that was recording constantly. You just logged in remotely at the DYNDNS address that you set up and viewed when you wanted to

Technical Ben · Feb 26, 2012, 09:17:09

Quote from: FritzBox on Feb 26, 2012, 08:12:26
The couple of cameras I have set up for folk in the past just involved using a DVR that was recording constantly. You just logged in remotely at the DYNDNS address that you set up and viewed when you wanted to

Yep. As you already have the PC and the camera, the £80 for the "service" could go towards a HDD that you could record a lot on. Although prices hiked up recently... £80 should get you 1 TB. I think you can get about 2000 hours on one of those, if you need to. Remember, you just record over last weeks video anyhow on most systems.

Uploading to a remote service all the time is far to resource intensive. Granted, you don't want thieves stealing the camera/tapes/drive. But if that's a concern, you can put it in a secure cabinet, or upload just a few pics, not a constant feed.

Den · Feb 26, 2012, 10:39:11

The only way to cover a site such as this is with a decent DVR and quite a few cameras. Recordings are held on the DVR and if the hard drive is big enough they are on there for at least a couple of weeks. Using a static iP address (standard with Idnet) it can be logged on at any time and viewed from any computer or smart phone. The secret is not to become paranoid about watching after all before the cameras were installed you did not sit day and night in the cow shed or in the field waiting for some thing to happen.
I have a system installed on a Dairy farm up in the Welsh hills using 8 cameras and they are viewed by the customer via Idnet and they have never gone any were near their limit. I also have a sytem at a petrol station with 12 cameras and they are viewed via BT and still no problem,

Magic Foundry · Feb 26, 2012, 13:42:32

I think in our ignorance we may have started going down the wrong rout. Constant streaming to a web server perhaps isn't the way. A DVR accessed remotely looks to be the way forward. Your right in that we do tend to watch more than is strictly needed, but it is cutting down on the number of journeys we're having to make.

Technical Ben · Feb 26, 2012, 13:42:50

Well, it does seem a waste of bandwidth when even the most advanced security usually revolves around tape drives in a VCR.

Are you able to check why it went over the limit? Perhaps something just needs adjusting in the settings? I've not really ever heard of anyone going over an upload limit. I did not even know BT had one.

(Also, if you don't have the privileged of a fixed IP address there are many Dynamic IP to static IP conversion programs that can be easily added to a pc.)

Lance · Feb 26, 2012, 14:55:50

Its not a specific upload limit, normally. Its just uploads count towards your total bandwidth allowance.

FritzBox · Feb 26, 2012, 15:02:06

Out of curiosity found this top of the range DVR, pretty pricey but would do everything required and up to 11,000gb of storage

http://www.digitaldirectsecurity.co.uk/predator-dvr-professional-series-.html

Technical Ben · Feb 26, 2012, 17:04:00

And for something less pricey... http://www.digitaldirectsecurity.co.uk/internal-day-night-camera-system-osprey-nv3.html

However, depending on what you already have, it may just need you to add a HDD. You already have the cameras, right?

Lance · Feb 26, 2012, 17:26:22

One option which might work with your current equipment is to set up a local web server (can be done easily free of charge) and send the video stream to that rather than to cowcam online. When you want to view, you enter your ip address into the browser and connect to your web server. That way, bandwidth is only used when you actually view it.

Den · Feb 26, 2012, 21:00:53

Well, it does seem a waste of bandwidth when even the most advanced security usually revolves around tape drives in a VCR.

I have not supplied a tape DVR for about five years. There are a lot of very good DVRs on the market these days and a lot cheaper than £600.

Check if there is a Alarm Supplies Ltd (Trade only) near you as their PSG range is very good and I have never seen better low light images. With just a very low light the cameras can enhance the pictures after dark and still produce colour scenes.

One of my systems at a garage where all they leave on at night externaly is the light in the carwash still gives me colour pictures.

Magic Foundry · Feb 26, 2012, 22:40:16

BT has what they call a usage allowance, which includes both downloads and uploads. Logging on to our account I see in six days we've used 22gig of our 10gig monthly allowance and "may be charged".
The camera supplied with the Cowcam kit isn't at all bad, in fact the whole kit seems pretty decent quality stuff. Obviously I'm not keen on scraping what we've started with but I think we can probably work with the hardware we've got. The camera has it's own IR LEDs with a 10 meter range but I'm adding an IR flood with a 45 meter range. I'm looking for a DVR perhaps somewhere in the £200-£300 price range, the http://www.digitaldirectsecurity.co.uk/micronet-ii-dvr-new-advanced-features.html looks to be something like.

pctech · Feb 26, 2012, 22:42:02

Sounds like you need to dispense with the cowcam service and/or switch to the likes of IDNet who don't meter uploads.

Den · Feb 27, 2012, 07:47:16

I it's not very often that I use IR. They dont work well if they are pointed downwards, I would far prefer to use a good quality camera that works down to a low light level. We had a very dark area on a system I installed in January so I used one pointing to the left but the one pointing to the right had no IR and that proved to be the best.

Magic Foundry · Feb 27, 2012, 16:36:03

We're certainly going to ditch the Cowcam service. The farm ISP is BT at the moment but in the not to distant future I think we'll probably switch to Idnet anyway.
I think we will need IR illumination, simply because we don't light the cowsheds and being in the deep countryside ambient light levels at night are almost zero. The biggest of the sheds is about 30m by 25m, so I'm hoping an illuminator with a stated range of 45m will be enough.

Den · Feb 27, 2012, 17:47:07

At the back of the cowsheds there are no lights what so ever and the only available light is via the slatted wood on the cowsheds and we still achieve colour outside as the cameras enhance the light. IR gets absorbed by the ground, concrete or soil so if the IR light is poiting down it does not work very well. As I said this farm is in the Welsh hills with no available extra light.