iPad 3 Announcement 7th March

[TheMonkey]

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1331226

In line with expectations, The Loop reports that Apple today sent out invitations for a media event scheduled for next week Wednesday, March 7. The event will be held at the Yerba Buena Center for the Arts in San Francisco and is scheduled to begin at 10:00 AM Pacific / 1:00 PM Eastern. The tagline on the invitation reads "We have something you really have to see. And touch."

Apple is of course expected to introduce the iPad 3 at the event, with an upgraded Apple TV set-top box also reportedly in the plans. Rumors have also suggested that Apple could show off a new high-definition audio format with "adaptive streaming" that could allow Apple's iCloud and iTunes Match services to send varying qualities of audio files to different devices depending on bandwidth and hardware requirements.

Please take my money now.

Thanks

[Rik]

There goes the bank balance.

[TheMonkey]

Thankfully I have nice relatives who gave me Apple Vouchers for Christmas to offset some of the cost. 

I can't keep up with all this tech

[Rik]

I stopped trying a while ago. Still, there should be some good bargains to be had in iPad 2s shortly...

[Simon]

... and even better ones for iPad 1s.

[Technical Ben]

"Today Apple have totally side-swiped everyone's expectations by instead releasing the iPood. A device to help people keep regular..."

[TheMonkey]

"Today Apple have totally side-swiped everyone's expectations by instead releasing the iPood. A device to help people keep regular..."

Wow thats pretty neat..........wait second....that didn't happen 

[Rik]

"Today Apple have totally side-swiped everyone's expectations by instead releasing the iPood. A device to help people keep regular..."

You're a month and a day too early, Ben.

[Technical Ben]

It was a possible future comment.

[Rik]

 

[Glenn]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17292424

[Steve]

Graphic display potentially very impressive and you can order today I believe for delivery on the 16th March. Not sure about using it as camera , very odd shape.

http://www.macrumors.com/

2048 x 1536 resolution. Higher than a 1080p display. 3.1 million pixels, 264 pixels per inch, "enough to call it a retina display". iPhone 4 was held at 10 inches, iPad held at 15".
- 44% greater color saturation.
- A5X Processor, quad-core graphics.
- New iSight Camera. 5MP rear camera, backside illuminated sensor on the back, 5-element lens, IR filter, and ISP built into A5X chip. Same design as iPhone 4S. Auto-exposure, auto-focus.
- HD video recording in 1080p.


Apple sold more iPads than any individual PC-maker sold PC's  -  a revealing fact to me that we are now in the post PC world and Windows 8 will  be joining in the fray as well.

[Niall]

No way will I be paying £650 for a tablet. For £200 more I can get a laptop that does far more, with only a slight increase in size & weight. Why in gods name are they not increasing the storage capacity. They'd win over a LOT of people, and for £650 you'd expect much more than 64gb. Looks like I'll be getting that laptop after all, to slot into my new shoulder bag for my camera equipment, etc. Seems that yet again, they've missed the thing that would interest people a lot more, and only released what they should have done last time. Maybe in 10 years time the penny will drop that if you want to use it for media purposes, they'll need to increase storage capacity.

The sad thing, and for me the annoying thing is that people will continue to pay these silly prices to have the trendy product, which will only encourage Apple to do what they want. It's coinciding with people with next to no PC knowledge splashing out on them instead of a PC because it's easier for them to use. That is perfectly sensible, but make them cheaper and increase storage and they'd more than make up the difference in sales. Apple baffle me, they really do.

[TheMonkey]

No way will I be paying £650 for a tablet. For £200 more I can get a laptop that does far more, with only a slight increase in size & weight. Why in gods name are they not increasing the storage capacity. They'd win over a LOT of people, and for £650 you'd expect much more than 64gb. Looks like I'll be getting that laptop after all, to slot into my new shoulder bag for my camera equipment, etc. Seems that yet again, they've missed the thing that would interest people a lot more, and only released what they should have done last time. Maybe in 10 years time the penny will drop that if you want to use it for media purposes, they'll need to increase storage capacity.

The sad thing, and for me the annoying thing is that people will continue to pay these silly prices to have the trendy product, which will only encourage Apple to do what they want. It's coinciding with people with next to no PC knowledge splashing out on them instead of a PC because it's easier for them to use. That is perfectly sensible, but make them cheaper and increase storage and they'd more than make up the difference in sales. Apple baffle me, they really do.

Simple answers to you post..

a) iPad starts at £399. Thats pretty good for a tablet of its quality. Apple don't make cheap quality products. Leave that to the competitors who have nothing else to offer.

b) Its not a laptop. Apple are pushing their cloud service so the amount data needed to be stored on it isn't that great.

The way you are going on its as if Apple are failing as a company. 

[Simon]

As you say, Niall, with Apple's sales figures and profits as they are, they have absolutely no reason to change.

[zappaDPJ]

I would very much like one, the display alone makes it extremely enticing. All the reviews I've read so far describe the display quality as stunning. Personally I doubt I'd need anything more than the bottom end model which doesn't seem too pricey at £399. I will however probably hold fire as I'd like to see what Windows 8 based devices have to offer first and I'd guess they are not likely to see the light of day until the end of the year.

[Technical Ben]

As you say, Niall, with Apple's sales figures and profits as they are, they have absolutely no reason to change.

A sale a good product dose not make...

As the Yoda would say. The Empire was massively "successful" with Darth Vader in charge, even though he was part of the Dark Side. 
I don't have anything against it. But I can understand, one persons chalk, is another's cheese. But I do find it strange when must people prefer to each chalk (see blockbuster figures for seriously poor writing in films, just because they have explosions)... 

I think the display sounds amazing. But for that price, I'd expect it in a laptop. But if they were charging close to Ipad 1/2 prices, I'd not see any difficulty for them. At such a high price, people may shy away.

[Niall]

Simple answers to you post..

a) iPad starts at £399. Thats pretty good for a tablet of its quality. Apple don't make cheap quality products. Leave that to the competitors who have nothing else to offer.

b) Its not a laptop. Apple are pushing their cloud service so the amount data needed to be stored on it isn't that great.

The way you are going on its as if Apple are failing as a company. 

You might want to re-read my post then if you think I said that.

My point was clear. They're keeping the storage low, and if I was to use one, I'd want to have onboard storage, not swap it about constantly via cloud services, so it would need to be at a very minimum 128gb and even then I'd have to think about it. 256gb is more the norm on a PC these days, and I'm only talking media storage. Just music alone, I'd almost have filled the top end ipad, which is no use if you want anything else on there. Cloud storage is good for nothing if you have no wifi or 3/4g connection in your area. Even in my town centre there are more dead zones than there is coverage.

I fully expect more Apple fans to round on this comment, as per usual, but my point is valid. Keep the price high, and include reasonable storage, or lower the price. There's such a fanboy hype about Apple thanks to their advertising over the last decade that they refuse to accept the fact that the products could and should have included things on previous versions, then a year later they add a few of those features, and the fans shout from the hill tops about how good it is, when the technology was available previously (and probably would have been cheaper to implement too, due to the economy) and could have been done then. Still we have key things that are the most basic of needs missing, and when they address that, if they do, the fans once again will be raving about how good Apple is. Get it right the first time and you'll get much higher sales, and have a wider range of customer base to work with for future products.

Basically to me it seems they just rely on fanboyism and brand loyalty to sell things currently, which will sell them a great amount of product, but not the quality product they could easily release. I just find it baffling and annoying, as do a lot of other people.

[Steve]

There's no denying that the iPad has been a huge success in terms of number of units sold,  last quarter no single PC manufacturer beat it. This cannot be explained by fanboyism and brand loyalty, this device has brought new customers to Apple. I agree Niall this device is not for everyone as individual requirements differ and personally having invested in an iPad some 20 months ago I'm not ready to upgrade,for me personally it doesn't make economic sense.

I have an original ATV which we do use, it's now approaching 3 years old and to upgrade that makes sense to me- I'll get a full screen iPad with 1080p video.


I believe the competition to the iPad will come from Windows 8 tablets later this year certainly the Samsung units are not selling that well.

[Technical Ben]

Sadly, I'll say MS should have stuck to what they are good at. Windows 8 could be a great tablet OS. But as a pc OS, it's dire (GUI that is, backend seems better than even Win7).
If they get it running fast, an arm version of Windows Mobile 8 might give Apple a competitor to play with.

[Steve]

I think we are seeing the death throes of the large form factor PC , Windows 8 as I understand it the desktop experience ain't going to change much and looking at the decline in desktop PC sales one can understand why. Windows 8 from the mobile point of view is a new OS and MS has been working on it for some time , if they get it right I think Android will be the loser and iOS will be looking nervously over it's shoulder. Don't forget a  Windows 8 tablet will still be a PC.

Sadly for a lot of us in the UK we're not going to see the full benefits of these new form factors, tablets and ultra books,as for both iOS and Windows 8 these are portable devices that rely on WiFi,3G and 4G for full functionality. It always amazes when I go abroad in Europe often to some remote locations that it's  unusual not to have a 3G signal yet in my back garden 9 miles away from an area of high population density I can't. This lack of foresight and investment makes a lot us unable to imagine anything worthy beyond the desktop/large format laptop attached to a fixed broadband connection


I see it's taken nearly a whole day for the iPad order date to slip from the 16th in the UK.

[lozcart]

The Apple Store was down until 12.10am this morning Steve so no orders could be placed, I know from experience, I ordered my 32gb wifi model at 12.30am after refreshing the page many times 

[Steve]

I did think they may have been snapped up sooner obviously this depends on available stock, I decided to upgrade the ATV now whether that was ever available from the 16th in the UK I don't know but delivery is currently 1-2 weeks.

[lozcart]

I think Tim Cook is reported as a expert of inventory and stock control so I wonder if he is having more say now Steve has passed on and so there is more avaliable stock at the launch of a new product.

[zappaDPJ]

There's no denying that the iPad has been a huge success in terms of number of units sold,  last quarter no single PC manufacturer beat it.

Apple accounted for 40 million of 60 million tablet PC shipments last year. If what I'm seeing on a couple of my forums is typical, demand for the iPad 3 is going to be phenomenal.

[Niall]

The trouble is, (and I find that I see people saying this a lot too, mainly as a reply to the sales figures of tablets) that you're trying to make a stat fit your argument. A tablet and a PC serve vastly different purposes, and with a PC/laptop it will and does overlap. You will see people buy tablets that don't own a PC, and surfed the net via their smartphone (whatever the brand). You will see people that only own laptops that will buy one to compliment or replace the laptop. You will see people that own laptops, PCs, older tablets buying them. You'll also see people not buy them as they have a smart phone, and own a powerful PC that covers them for everything they do.

My point is that just simply quoting the fact that more tablets were sold than PCs means absolutely nothing other than people want them. Their reasons are their own, but mine would be films on the go, photography viewing/simple editing, music, internet, and the other usual things. All you're seeing is a new technology being sought after often to compliment current technology. It is quite literally a case of apples and oranges (damn, I've gone months without having to say that ). {edit} Actually, it isn't literally apples and oranges or there would be a lot of reports of angry customers reporting their products rotting

I'm not anti tablet by any means, and if it's not already clear, I'd jump at the chance of buying one if the pricing was reasonable, which it clearly is not for what I want to use it for. Decent storage capacity and I'd be all over it.

[Technical Ben]

Steve, "Thin" clients have been around for how many years? 20? 30? Smart phones at least 10 now.
We still have desktops. They might shrink a little, but I can't see them going anywhere quick.

AFAIK it's also always going to be cheaper to make larger components over the smaller ones. So the size is the price point for many. The two form factors (large and cheap vs small and expensive) will live together nicely.

PS, now I think about it. I don't see Apple getting rid of their desktops either. (Hiding it behind the LCD still counts as a desktop!    )

[Simon]

What I have trouble with is that, in effect, they are charging £80 per extra 16Gb of storage, which is plainly way over the odds, and I cannot see how they can justify this.  Further, they are charging an extra £100 for the benefit of 4G - just because they can, and people will pay it. 

It's a bit like me selling a jar of strawberry jam, for £2, or £4 if you want strawberries in it.

[Niall]

Speaking of 4G I was watching that click online via my iphone the other day (I'd had a couple of painkillers for my back and forgotten what I was downstairs for, so knowing I'd remember why I was down there on my return upstairs, I stayed downstairs watching that ) and they showed the speeds of 4G. DAMN, that's some fast mobile coverage. Admittedly it was due to a lack of people using it, as they said, but he was getting 30mb down and 14mb up! ON A PHONE!

[Simon]

Yes, I saw that too and it made me wonder, why can't we have 4G instead of expensive fibre?

[Niall]

If it's secure, or can be made completely secure, I'll be surprised if it isn't the way things will go. Still they will mix it with cloud based processes, which I'm really not a fan of. To go off on a tangent, this is one of my issues with tablets. They're clearly trying to force cloud based stuff (managed by Lando - yes I may have watched the bluray collection while I've been off work ) by having small storage capacity. This angers me as it's not allowing you to choose. Again, the reason why I don't like itunes; you're forced to use Apples product in a specific way, with no wiggle room.

[Steve]

There's a host of articles about the 'post PC world' here's one from Ray Ozzie.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/electronics/9131459/Ex-Microsoft-visionary-Ray-Ozzie-says-of-course-were-in-a-post-PC-world.html

[Glenn]

for example, shipments of PCs tumbled 5.9pc in the final three months of last year compared with the same quarter in 2010, according to research group Gartner.

Some if not all of that could be put down to the Thailand floods last year, decimating hard drive production?

[TheMonkey]

You might want to re-read my post then if you think I said that.

My point was clear. They're keeping the storage low, and if I was to use one, I'd want to have onboard storage, not swap it about constantly via cloud services, so it would need to be at a very minimum 128gb and even then I'd have to think about it. 256gb is more the norm on a PC these days, and I'm only talking media storage. Just music alone, I'd almost have filled the top end ipad, which is no use if you want anything else on there. Cloud storage is good for nothing if you have no wifi or 3/4g connection in your area. Even in my town centre there are more dead zones than there is coverage.

I fully expect more Apple fans to round on this comment, as per usual, but my point is valid. Keep the price high, and include reasonable storage, or lower the price. There's such a fanboy hype about Apple thanks to their advertising over the last decade that they refuse to accept the fact that the products could and should have included things on previous versions, then a year later they add a few of those features, and the fans shout from the hill tops about how good it is, when the technology was available previously (and probably would have been cheaper to implement too, due to the economy) and could have been done then. Still we have key things that are the most basic of needs missing, and when they address that, if they do, the fans once again will be raving about how good Apple is. Get it right the first time and you'll get much higher sales, and have a wider range of customer base to work with for future products.

Basically to me it seems they just rely on fanboyism and brand loyalty to sell things currently, which will sell them a great amount of product, but not the quality product they could easily release. I just find it baffling and annoying, as do a lot of other people.

Well you're talking about them reducing the quality and increase the storage to sell more as if they aren't already selling an amazing amount already.

Fanboyism!?? 

I think its amazing integration that is pushing Apple sales at the moment.

If you think Apple will compromise on design and quality to sell a few more products you really don't get the Apple brand.


Anyway. each to their own.

[Steve]

Some if not all of that could be put down to the Thailand floods last year, decimating hard drive production?

True I'm sure it's had some impact but I still believe any expansion of desktop PCs market will only be in the third world ( I suppose that includes the Uk now  )

[Technical Ben]

Speaking of 4G I was watching that click online via my iphone the other day (I'd had a couple of painkillers for my back and forgotten what I was downstairs for, so knowing I'd remember why I was down there on my return upstairs, I stayed downstairs watching that ) and they showed the speeds of 4G. DAMN, that's some fast mobile coverage. Admittedly it was due to a lack of people using it, as they said, but he was getting 30mb down and 14mb up! ON A PHONE!

I've heard that in the likes of Japan and Korea etc, they already surpass that. 

True I'm sure it's had some impact but I still believe any expansion of desktop PCs market will only be in the third world ( I suppose that includes the Uk now  )

But that's not due to the PC market failing. It's due to everyone having one. IE, we will have this exact same discussion when everyone has a Tablet and a desktop. That's the problem when you use sales numbers or profit to measure "success". 
Oh, I do agree that laptops may replace desktops. But I will always see the need for a keyboard. As soon as you put something on a desk, with a keyboard (even if it's connected to a tab ) it becomes a desktop! 

"Oh, those Tablets have stopped selling. They are so useless no one will buy them"
"Um, you mean everyone already has one, so new sales reduce?"

[zappaDPJ]

If the processing power contained within the new iPad is up to the job I suspect you'll see gaming companies looking to take advantage of the high definition screen. That could well have a major impact on the sales of hand held consoles. The point being that advances in technology will always have an effect on the hardware we buy and the way in which we use it.

[Technical Ben]

Hint, the ipad is not "handheld" in comparison to even a Nintendo 3DS. Size differences are massive.
Really, oranges =/= apples.

We still have people buying both.

[zappaDPJ]

Hint, the ipad is not "handheld" in comparison to even a Nintendo 3DS. Size differences are massive.
Really, oranges =/= apples.

We still have people buying both.

We do at the moment but there's an increasing amount of speculation on the technology blogs that the iPad has the potential to seriously dent console sales from the likes of Sony and Nintendo e.g.

http://www.kitguru.net/channel/harrison/ipad-3-will-damage-handheld-console-sales-in-20122013/

iPad 3 will damage handheld console sales in 2012/2013

With the imminent release of the stunning new iPad 3 the market is gearing up for a hot n' heavy 2012 with no signs of slowing down in 2013. Global demand for tablet PC's of all styles will rise to 130 million in 2013 according to reports from Taiwanese supply chain makers.

Last year global tablet PC shipments peaked at 60 million and Apple accounted for 40 million, showing their incredible strength in this sector. Tablet PC sales are expected to hit 95 million in 2012 with more growth in 2013.

Much of the sales in 2012 will be driven by Apple, as the new iPad 3 will attract a wide audience thanks to the super high resolution 2048×1536 screen and quad core GPU processing power from the new A5x processor.

The potential for the iPad 3 as a very serious gaming tool will have serious ramifications for the gaming industry as it will cause sales problems for Sony and Nintendo with their latest handheld gaming consoles.

The fact that the iPad 3 store infrastructure will offer cheap , casual games attracts a very family oriented audience who are able to download in the comfort of their living room. Professional game studios will also find the new quad core GPU and super high resolution screen very enticing, with the potential for reaching many millions of customers via the Apple store.

Make no mistake, Sony and Nintendo will both be very concerned right now about their sales projections in the next 18 months.

Kitguru says: iPad 3 we predict will be the single biggest gaming machine over the next year.

[Technical Ben]

I tend not to belive things I read in reviews and papers. No idea why. (hint, the phrases "speculation" over "results" seems to speak loudly!)
But motorcycles don't prevent the use of bicycles and 4x4s don't stop the use of minis. The Ipad may be successful, but the others will still be around as not everyone is the same. People have different needs, wallets and likes.

Basically all I hear is "I like it so you should" when people go "but it's popular, so it must be good!". I still like my desktop, laptop and phone. I don't like finger prints on a screen.

However, if I said "Desktops are so good, I expect tablets to not exist in 2 years time". What would you think? Because that's kind of what I hear every time someone says the smart phone/tablet/"next big thing" is doing the same to desktops. I see desktops not as a form factor, but a use. Even with the invention of power tools, people still buy hammers. So I can see a computer for putting on a desk, to exist for a long time yet. Plus there is no reason to think the only company that will ever make them will be Apple.

[zappaDPJ]

Oh I agree, I'm sure I'll still be using my PC, my laptop, my iPad (order soon to be placed) and my iPhone for a number of years to come. However I also think that the new iPad is set to shake things up more than a little.

[Niall]

Well you're talking about them reducing the quality and increase the storage to sell more as if they aren't already selling an amazing amount already.

Fanboyism!?? 

I think its amazing integration that is pushing Apple sales at the moment.

If you think Apple will compromise on design and quality to sell a few more products you really don't get the Apple brand.


Anyway. each to their own.

I'm starting to think you're trying to cause arguments as you're clearly not reading what I'm saying. Show me where I said I want Apple to lower the quality? If I want them to improve a product to a point where it would be usable for other people, not just the ones that it currently fits a need for, how exactly is that lowering quality? I want them to IMPROVE the storage capacity. I really have no idea what you're talking about. I can't say it any clearer than I have.

[TheMonkey]

I'm starting to think you're trying to cause arguments as you're clearly not reading what I'm saying. Show me where I said I want Apple to lower the quality? If I want them to improve a product to a point where it would be usable for other people, not just the ones that it currently fits a need for, how exactly is that lowering quality? I want them to IMPROVE the storage capacity. I really have no idea what you're talking about. I can't say it any clearer than I have.

You Said..

That is perfectly sensible, but make them cheaper and increase storage and they'd more than make up the difference in sales. Apple baffle me, they really do.

Apologies. I took that to mean you saying lower the quality of the product and increase the storage to try and shift more.

But still. £399 is a good price. When they other tablets came out they were more expensive!?

[Technical Ben]

Oh. I think that was more in reply to the price difference (£100), not the price of the model (£499 for the Ipad3?). IE, Make it less than £100 for an extra 16GB. That's not a quality problem. The two models are the same (16gb/32gb), the price of the memory upgrade is not £100. This is even more apparent when you remember Apple have special deals on chips. "Make is £10 for 16GB" is more reasonable when considering the cost/pricing for most memory cards is that these day.

[Simon]

I agree with that, Ben, but it's all down to marketing.  If the 64Gb version is only £20 dearer than the 16Gb, they'd hardly shift any of the 16Gb.  It could be argued, therefore, why not just have the 64Gb version at more reasonable price, but this is Apple, and they sell them this way because they can. 

[Steve]

Certainly in this country because of the weak pound we pay an even higher premium, not forgetting on the Apple US site prices don't include an individual states sales and local district sales Tax. So with California you can add a max of 9.25% to the dollar price. Thinking about the storage if it had more it would then compete with the MacBook Air.

[Technical Ben]

I agree with that, Ben, but it's all down to marketing.  If the 64Gb version is only £20 dearer than the 16Gb, they'd hardly shift any of the 16Gb.  It could be argued, therefore, why not just have the 64Gb version at more reasonable price, but this is Apple, and they sell them this way because they can. 

Oh, yep, seems to be marketing rather than costing. I just read an interesting theory. If they price entry models close to the higher ones, they can hope to reap in more profit off of higher priced top end models. Or if they up the top end models price, they can hope to sell more lower end models if they have more profit margins. Basically, they up the prices to encourage more sales, not drop them like most other places do. 

I think it's like Bently. They have to price them at 50k more than they are worth to get people to buy them. (I'm not suggesting the same is done by Apple that much, but by a little bit they do put a price on the logo/brand!)

[Niall]

You Said..

Apologies. I took that to mean you saying lower the quality of the product and increase the storage to try and shift more.

But still. £399 is a good price. When they other tablets came out they were more expensive!?

That's my point. The £399 one is of no interest to me, the storage is what I'd need so I'd be looking at having to part with obscene amounts of cash and still not have the capacity I need. If I was stupidly rich then I'd buy one as a gimmicky toy for around the house, but as it stands it's just a dumbed down laptop or larger smart phone. Again, I'd jump at the chance if it was a reasonable price, but I see no point in paying £600+ for something with not a great deal more storage than my iPhone 4S.

[Gary]

The idea is to use as has been discussed online storage, and for what you do on an iPad, thats fine 64GB plus drop box would do most people fine, these are not the same desktop computers and people need to look at tablets as such.

[Niall]

That argument doesn't wash though. They're intended for media use and have been advertised as such by Apple themselves. Now they're not increasing the storage, seemingly to promote the cloud (and this is just giving them the benefit of the doubt, it's probably just greed). Again, we're covering old ground, but it's the same arguments over and over. People that want more for the money, like me, complain, whereas Apple fans/fanboys buy into whatever is passed their way, and accept limited functionality as a result.

[pctech]

Of course its to promote the cloud, they are spending millions building data cnetres (HP Proliant servers rather than colocated Mac Minis or Mac Pros in there, really confident in their hardware then)

http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/category/companies/apple/

The aim is of course platform lock in.

[Lance]

I'm assuming you are not serious about them using consumer hardware as data centre hardware?

[pctech]

They sell Mac minis with OSX server, if you are confident in the performance of the product why not show it and base your services on it or bring back the Xserve?

[Technical Ben]

They left that game ages ago it seems.
Look at some of the biggest players. They are "middle men" (Banks and media distributes). Apples seems to be aiming for this. They provide service between the consumer and the businesses via the Ipad/etc.

[Glenn]

Take your iPad 3 apart

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad-3-4G-Teardown/8277/1

[Simon]

Yeah, right!