80/20 FTTC to launch April 10th

Ardua · Apr 27, 2012, 10:32:31

Quote from: Lance on Apr 27, 2012, 09:05:20
I think the higher speeds are going to be of much greater benefit to multi-user homes. That additional 18mb allows additional downloads or streaming without impacting as much on something or someone else.

But, presumably, the risk is that as 'junior' is flitting from one YouTube video to the next, bandwidth usage (or wastage) is likely to be higher than on 40/10. I am just trying to judge how this sits with a limited bandwidth package? Fortunately, from a broadband perspective, 'junior', his Mum, Dad and sister only visit every couple of weeks. Even when I was on ADSL2+, I could see the meter racing when all their toys were online.

Bill · Apr 27, 2012, 10:36:44

Quote from: andrue on Apr 27, 2012, 10:28:34
All a bit of a far cry from 1991 when I first moved into my house and CompuServe were just rolling out 19k2 in the US. Luckily I had a business line so I dialled into New York when I wanted speed

You were 2 years in front of me... I tried dialling the San Francisco node once with a 56k USR Courier (just because I could

), it didn't do a lot for the speed as I recall

andrue · Apr 27, 2012, 11:13:53

Quote from: Bill on Apr 27, 2012, 10:36:44
You were 2 years in front of me... I tried dialling the San Francisco node once with a 56k USR Courier (just because I could ), it didn't do a lot for the speed as I recall

56k was actually quite clever. It allowed your modem to tell the exchange to turn off the A/D converter. In effect you had a digital connection on the upstream. I'm not sure if I ever tried 56k to the US. I know that one of the upgrades of the time occurred in the UK first but that might have been the one after 19k2.

I'm not sure why 56k wouldn't work internationally but perhaps the links across the Atlantic were compressed and/or had their own A/D conversion. I'm not surprised given that it was probably the kludge of all kludges.

I had Home Highway installed eventually and when I plugged the modem into the box I got the best ever speed out of it. I think I got over 50k that way compared to 45k previously. Fairly pointless exercise though since I got 64k using HH.

I leave you with this blast from the past:

Beep, bop, beep, beeply bip.
Screeeeeeeeeeech.
<pause>
Boing.
Boing.
<Screech>

When you didn't get the boings you knew it was going to be a bad connection

Bill · Apr 27, 2012, 11:36:03

Quote from: andrue on Apr 27, 2012, 11:13:53
I'm not sure why 56k wouldn't work internationally but perhaps the links across the Atlantic were compressed and/or had their own A/D conversion. I'm not surprised given that it was probably the kludge of all kludges.

It worked, just rather slowly. IIRC I could get ~51k to my local exchange, occasionally 53k, trans-Atlantic was under 20k. I never tried turning the ADC off.

I did force a satellite connection once (I forget the dial codes I used), the speed improved quite a bit but the pings were horrendous

mervl · Apr 28, 2012, 09:08:16

Quote from: Ardua on Apr 27, 2012, 10:32:31
But, presumably, the risk is that as 'junior' is flitting from one YouTube video to the next, bandwidth usage (or wastage) is likely to be higher than on 40/10. I am just trying to judge how this sits with a limited bandwidth package? Fortunately, from a broadband perspective, 'junior', his Mum, Dad and sister only visit every couple of weeks. Even when I was on ADSL2+, I could see the meter racing when all their toys were online.

When I run a live HD stream (iPlayer/YouTube) it consumes about 6Mnps bandwidth - so theoretically I can run 6 of them simultaneously on my 36-38 Mbps throughput (which the 40 cap regularly gives me on a poor line at over 600m from the cab) - how many are there in your "expanded" household? So I don't see how a greater profile speed would necessarily make things "worse" on the download cap in the scenario you describe, though presumably subject to the constraints at the "other end" it would speed up downloads (as distinct to streaming). That being said the main benefit of the 78/20 profile does seem to me to be in favour of IT and media business users and for media streaming uploads or other huge file uploads (apart from satisfying the addiction of simple speed junkies!).

Steve · Apr 28, 2012, 11:15:27

Well I switched to 80/20 overnight and the results seem to be as predicted on the upstream and better than I expected downstream , BT estimates being on the conservative side and I am at least 500-600m from the cabinet.

BT estimate
41.4Mb download
6.1Mb upload

Glenn · Apr 28, 2012, 11:21:57

For me, BT estimates are on the optimistic side on the downstream, approx 650m from the cabinet.

BT checker estimate
46.3Mb download
8.0Mb upload

This is after a fault has been identified and fixed, the latency has dropped from 30ms back to 11ms over the past month.

Rik · Apr 28, 2012, 11:26:22

I'm even more jealous.

Steve · Apr 28, 2012, 11:38:59

Odd how I got the downstream but not the upstream increase , I've not checked yet with my hacked modem but certainly on the BT speedtest, the profiles are correct at 53/20 but I'm not going to fret about the upstream throughput.

Glenn · Apr 28, 2012, 11:40:25

Personally, I think BT are still learning how to configure the lines.

lozcart · Apr 29, 2012, 15:04:17

I'm very pleased with my new speeds this is a test carried out over wi-fi, I am 100-120 meters from the cabinet.

mervl · May 01, 2012, 14:26:28

OK you experts. My determination to resist the upgrade which I don't need is waning. Utter stupidity, I know . . . but:

my modem reports I didn't get the compensating upstream tones in the higher frequencies on the move to the 17a profile (and the modem reports capping at the DSLAM of the upstream at 7.2Mbps - below my 10Mbps profile), and the reported attainable downstream rate is just above 40Mbps, so surely it has got to be a physical impossibility to get any advantage from the 80/20 upgrade although my profile is the full 38.71 (throughput 38Mbps) on the capped service. The "upgrade" just removes the cap and makes no other config changes. Right?

Any one have a view on whether the drop off of tones reported by the modem at around 1200kHz from 12 to 1 (before recovering up again) is also evidence of a necessary power reduction at the cab which hobbles my connection anyway?

I'd just like my mind to be put at rest that it is a waste of time, and I can stop fretting

PS oh and just out of interest I exceed (on download) what the BTW checker says for my line anyway.

Steve · May 01, 2012, 18:59:10

I think your correct, all you'll get is the max attainable syncs displayed by the modem.

gizmo71 · May 02, 2012, 07:17:55

Before

and after

Slightly disappointed with the very modest increase in upload, especially when the checker suggested so much better (69!!!), but rather pleased with the virtual doubling of upload bandwidth. Nice ping too.

psp83 · May 02, 2012, 14:14:56

Quote from: gizmo71 on May 02, 2012, 07:17:55
Nice ping too.

Your ping WILL get higher as interleaving is enabled

Mine was low for about 2 weeks (training period?) then interleaving got enabled.

andrue · May 02, 2012, 16:31:07

Had mine enabled overnight:

I was expecting better but it's still a nice bump.

gizmo71 · May 02, 2012, 16:52:47

Quote from: psp83 on May 02, 2012, 14:14:56
Your ping WILL get higher as interleaving is enabled
Mine was low for about 2 weeks (training period?) then interleaving got enabled.

People said that when I first had FTTC installed but it never did.

psp83 · May 02, 2012, 20:18:38

Quote from: gizmo71 on May 02, 2012, 16:52:47
People said that when I first had FTTC installed but it never did.

Give it chance

How far are you away from the cab? From what I've seen, anyone over 400m has had interleaving levels increased.

On another note, FTTC seems to be more sensitive to thunderstorms

andrue · May 02, 2012, 21:01:12

Quote from: psp83 on May 02, 2012, 20:18:38
Give it chance

How far are you away from the cab? From what I've seen, anyone over 400m has had interleaving levels increased.

On another note, FTTC seems to be more sensitive to thunderstorms

That's interesting. I'm about 500m from mine so that might explain the latency. Interestingly ten days probably to the hour after my connection went live my latency dropped slightly. Would that have been an interleaving adjustment? On ADSL you can only switch it on or off and it makes a bigger difference than that.

Steve · May 02, 2012, 21:06:30

I've always wondered about these small steps , my suspicion is that they are 'routing' adjustments.

ie Mine today. ignore the resync that was me.

psp83 · May 02, 2012, 23:27:43

From what I've read on websites, the small steps you see are showing the level of interleaving changing on your line.

But on Steve's TBBG it does look like a routing change. But it could also be the cab equipment changing the level of interleaving if the line was unstable during that period.

I don't know alot about interleaving on FTTC but I do know that you can't have it on or off as ISP have no control over this yet. So all FTTC connections have it set to auto, any signs of the line playing up & it will kick in.

gizmo71 · May 03, 2012, 07:24:08

Quote from: gizmo71 on May 02, 2012, 16:52:47
How far are you away from the cab? From what I've seen, anyone over 400m has had interleaving levels increased.

I'm about 300m away.

FritzBox · May 05, 2012, 09:29:05

Have ordered FTTC from my ISP

I know a BT engineer has to fit it. I have one of the old type sockets not an NTE5 in the hall which I'm presuming is the master. Upstairs in my study I have an extension socket, this is the only one in the house.

So the question is, can the BT engineer change the extension in my study to the master, what does it entail and will he be willing to do it?

Ardua · May 05, 2012, 18:10:20

Quote from: FritzBox on May 05, 2012, 09:29:05
Have ordered FTTC from my ISP

I know a BT engineer has to fit it. I have one of the old type sockets not an NTE5 in the hall which I'm presuming is the master. Upstairs in my study I have an extension socket, this is the only one in the house.

So the question is, can the BT engineer change the extension in my study to the master, what does it entail and will he be willing to do it?

Firstly, make sure that your ISP has requested a data extension cable in the order. The OR engineer will probably remove the existing box in toto and fit a New box with a NTE5 faceplate front. He will then run a flat 2 wire cable from filtered connections on the back of the NTE 5 socket to a single RJ point at a place of your choosing. As you will probably want to use the FB as a modem/router from Day 1 make sure that the extension socket is close to a double power socket and telephone point The OR engineer will not take any responsibility for the FB set up if my experience was anything to go by.

Do not suggest/let the engineer use your internal wiring as an extension lead. It might be the easiest solution but the data extension cable is part of the deal and using it circumvents all potential internal wiring issues. Have a look at the BT Infinity installation video if you require any further details.

My connection is rock solid but CLIP is miss more than hit ( version 22 software). Best of luck.

FritzBox · May 05, 2012, 19:03:51

Thanks Ardua

Bit of a dilemma then, it's a strange setup I have. The phone line comes in at the back of what was a bungalow, the master is in the hall towards the front, I don't even know how the cable gets to the master unless it's through what was the loft space and is buried in the wall. We had a loft conversion done 5-6 years ago, the extension to my study was put in then.

There is no way on earth that my other half will allow a cable to run all round the hall, up the stairs to the bedroom and then into my study. I wouldn't like it much either tbh, would just look a complete mess

Looks like the only way is the existing cabling as I wouldn't want the router in the hall either as that would mean homeplugging my pc's upstairs and also sticking the printer in the hall next to the router