Netgear DG834G V4, possibly dying?

[Athanis]

G'day,

Using an IDNet configured DG834G V4 with latest firmware, beginning to wonder if it's at the end of it's lease of life.  Approximately three years old, no significant changes to the settings besides the encryption, (Down one setting to accommodate an older laptop) and a mandated switch to the .gw5 suffix a year or two ago after the outages in Northern Ireland.

Lately, within say the last two months, disconnects have been re-occurring with alarming frequency.  I'm a heavy gamer, Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer and Battlefield 3 multiplayer currently- experiencing frequent loss of connection with the former and actually receiving small but irritating bans from servers in the latter because of connection drop-outs.  Low net usage seems to limit drop-outs but disconnecting and reconnecting to the router is the only method that resolves the drop-outs for now. 

Router is always on, approx three meters from the Gaming Desktop- however, thick wooden floorboards (and who knows what else, infrastructure-wise between those) separate the desktop antennas from the Router.  I've adjusted the Routers antenna to point almost directly toward the Desktop and vice-versa in hopes of a stronger connection but drop-outs still occur.

Desktop is capable of Draft N connection, Router is limited to D/B/G. 

If it's dying, having served well for so long, I'd love a suggestion concerning a replacement suitable for Gaming... that won't break the piggy-bank.

Thanks for reading, any further tech-details will be provided if requested.

Oh and, great forum too.  First time posting!

J.

[Rik]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Is the router losing sync (you're not connected at all), or is it PPP that's dropping (you're connected but can't access the web) or is it purely a wireless connection issue - I couldn't decide for sure. I think you're saying it's the wireless connection? What's your budget?

[Athanis]

Hi Rik,

Unfortunately, the drop-outs occur whilst playing Lan Games too- those aren't so often that I could calculate a failure rate but the increase in connection failures has increased sharply over the past couple of months. 

Budget would be approx 50-70 quid at a stretch.  Wandered into Currys (I know, I know...) yesterday and a helpful little dude pointed me towards the Netgear N300, (a variant of which I think my Brother was sent for his new IDNet connection ).  Approx 50 quid for that one.  Gaming performance for the DG834g seemed perfectly fine and if the N300 is decently optimised, I'd be happy to snap it up- if recommended?

J.

[Ray]

 

[Rik]

Unfortunately, the drop-outs occur whilst playing Lan Games too- those aren't so often that I could calculate a failure rate but the increase in connection failures has increased sharply over the past couple of months.

Sorry, I'm still not sure whether it's a case of the computer losing connection with the router, or the router losing connection with the line?

[Athanis]

Is there any particular data-set I could retrieve that would make the distinction?

Data from Netgear Interface:


IP Address                   xx.xx.xxx.xxx
Network Type           PPPoA
IP Subnet Mask           255.255.255.255
Gateway IP Address   212.69.63.42
Domain Name Server   212.69.36.3
212.69.40.3

LAN Port
MAC Address          00:1E:2A:EB:A7:42
IP Address                 192.168.0.1
DHCP   On
IP Subnet Mask         255.255.255.0

Modem
ADSL Firmware Version                   A2pB023b.d20e
Modem Status   Connected
DownStream Connection Speed   5099 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed           971 kbps
VPI   0
VCI   38

Any programs I could run to test connection to router vs connection to line?


edit: to remove ip address from public eyes

[Glenn]

I don't know whether Routerstats will show anything, but it maybe worth a try. http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm

[Athanis]

Interesting @ Glenn.  Line Attenuation results:

Downstream: 44.5db - (Noise Margin: 9.6db)

Upsteam: 26.2db - (Noise Margin: 9.4db)

[Steve]

I did initially wonder whether you were suffering from WiFi dropouts, which maybe be due to interference from neighbouring wifi networks. If you can scan the neighbourhood you  maybe able to pick a non conflicting channel .

[Simon]

That IP address above should be masked. 

[Athanis]

@ Steve, I had wondered about conflicts.  In fact, the wireless card within the Gaming Desktop seems rather less powerful that the one in my Netbook in that it picks up the Netgear and my neighbours own Netgear but none of the other six or so that the Netbook picks up, (though I'm aware that Netbook/ Laptop antennas tend to be more powerful anyhow...?)

Attempted to switch to Channel 13 a few days ago to test just such a possibility but neither the Netbook nor the G.Desktop could find the Netgear, even when given its details via the Windows Network Screen.  The only device that did find it after the Channel change was my S.E. Xperia Play.   It's now back to Channel 11, the original setting.

I'm attempting to run Mass Effect 3 to give Routerstats a chance to pick up anything and also to check for any other recurring behavioural patterns when the router is under strain.

[Athanis]

@ Simon, sorry about that!  Will remember to do so in the future.  I'm a bit of a klutz...

[Simon]

@ Simon, sorry about that!  Will remember to do so in the future.  I'm a bit of a klutz...

No problem, it's not us you need to worry about! 

[Athanis]

I know @ Simon.  It's the rest of the Internet. 0_o

Unfortunately, I managed a complete match of ME3 without dropout so no real test results yet.

Though, after a bit of research, those line attenuation figures seem very high- something to take up with BT?

[Rik]

How far are you from the exchange?

[Athanis]

Straight-line distance, according to SamKnows is 1.40 KM from here to the Belfast-Ormeau Exhange.  Fairly heavy residential area.

Dread to think what the actual cable-length would be...

[Rik]

About double is a good rule of thumb. You have a raised target noise margin, either 9 or 12db, which suggests instability to me. Keep Routerstats running on a machine for 24 hours, see how the NM varies. What else is connected to the phone line?

[Athanis]

Will run it as long as possible, current results after an hour or so are bouncing around the 9.6 range.

It's just the router and a wireless Panasonic Landline phone connected to the Master socket and the Panasonics Slave handset attached to the auxiliary socket. 

[Steve]

A wifi drop out and a dropped sync from the router will look similar with routerstats, won't they? unless I'm being stupid which is entirely possible.  I would suggest setting up a TBBQM and then your not dependent on a wifi connection, you will have to make your router pingable which is a minuscule security risk.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping

[Athanis]

Created a monitor @ Steve, going to run ME3 again and wait for the results.

[Rik]

It's just the router and a wireless Panasonic Landline phone connected to the Master socket and the Panasonics Slave handset attached to the auxiliary socket. 

DECT phone?

Do you have an NTE5 master, the type where the bottom half of the faceplate can be removed?

[Athanis]

Aye, it's a DECT phone.  The faceplate is a full plate with two screws- though, as a note, it's quite old but solidly attached to the wall at least.

[Rik]

So why does the second phone need to connect to the phone line?

[Steve]

Re Routers and WiFi

I think pctech has an N300 ?? the dgn2000 seems also to do the job. The wifi channel which don't overlap are 1,6,11 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels


The other solution is to try a fixed IP address outside of the dhcp server range.

[Athanis]

Ah, excuse me whilst I /facepalm.  It doesn't connect to anything besides the power-socket.

 

[Athanis]

I've changed the channel down to 6, to see if this will help avoid interference. 

Seriously considering either the Netgear DGN2200 (Which IDNet seems to be issuing to new ADSL Max customers, ie: my brother) or the Belkin N300 as a longterm upgrade- Stronger signal, faster file transfers and, hopefully, greater LAN stability. 

Roughly the same price too- Any recommendations for either device? 

[Steve]

Sorry I don't use either, I'm surrounded by neighbours WiFi and my investment in the 5Ghz network (although more limited range wise) keeps the interference at present away.


Indeed if you do find it a WiFi issue 'homeplugs' are a possible solution if you can't directly cable.

[Athanis]

They both seem fairly similar- just a difference of style essentially.

Update on the ThinkBroadband tool: Latency is hanging around the 25-40 range, tiny amount of packet-loss. 

Will continue to trundle on, gathering data.

[Lance]

I've got a DGN2200 and have been using it for about a year I think. Not had any issues with it. However, I think you need to find out if it is your wifi dropping or your broadband connection. If the latter, a new router won't necessarily help.

If you find you have more disconnections in the evening, that could well be a sign of increased noise on the line.

[Rik]

Phew.

[Athanis]

After approx 8 hours of ping and db tracking, the db is down to an average of 8 and the ping has kept steady- absolutely minimal packet-loss (though line attenuation is around 44db), ping around 30ms.  One small drop-out during ME3 multiplayer but not a complete disconnect. 

Must-snoop-more-tomorrow.

[Rik]

Packet loss shouldn't happen often, no matter how long your line is. I have a 57db and a 63db line, neither shows packet loss very often. The drop in noise margin is almost certainly the 'after dark' effect, more crosstalk, more interference from MW radio signals.

[Athanis]

Whilst I couldn't run the Routerstats tool overnight, (Gaming Desktop is too noisy and deters sleep,) the T.Broadband Ping tool continued on regardless and recorded the same ping as when in use, approx. 20-40 range but still, tiny amounts of packet-loss every hour or so.  Rare but happening.

Leaving the Desktop on all day, will see what happens.

In terms of the packet-loss, what sort of problems could I be facing?

[Rik]

They probably will affect gaming, but you wouldn't notice a small amount in normal browsing, email etc. Curing packet loss is more difficult, the problem being identifying the cause. For diagnostic purposes, disconnect the phone from the line and shut down all computers bar one, which must have a wired connection to the router. See if that improves things. If it does, bring the computers back on line one at a time until they are all running or the problem starts again. If you make that stage OK, then try a different filter for the phone. Do you have access to a battery-powered MW radio? If so, de-tune it, so all you hear is white noise, then move around the house running it along power cables, phone line and computers. If the noise increases, you have found a source of RF interference. Check especially carefully around monitors and 'power bricks' including the router's.

[Athanis]

Thanks for the suggestions- the battery-powered MW Radio trick is the most interesting tip I've heard for anything in ages.  Will rummage about, see what I have.

Noticed a fairly big spike in packet-loss during a heavy session of ME3 earlier.  Deliberately played maps with as much action, highest difficulty etc, etc to see what would happen.  One disconnect, less that usual but much more stuttering and lag.  Resorted to standing still at the worst of it, hoping it would ease off. 

Will give your suggestions a go, see what comes up.

[pctech]

Just a litle word of warning about using the thinkbroadband monitor to judge packet loss.

1. It's not hosted on IDNet's network and so the packets have to travel across a shared peering link to LoNAP where the traffic is handed off to Netconnex who host Thinkbrobadband, depending on the time of night, if a lot of downloads are occurring this connection may have a certain amount of load on it and routers treat ICMP Echo requests and replies as low priority packets, so if a router's CPU is taxed at any point in the chain, it will drop these packets or queue them for delivery later in preference to dropping actual data.
2. If your connection is being used for a download or streaming, the activity will use up the available bandwidth, which will depend on your sync and IP profile which may mean that the device at TBB won't get a response which it will mark as packet loss.

If you are concerned about packet loss, talk to support who can probably set up a ping graph which means that the packets only have to pass over the BT hostlink and network before reaching your router which will then respond if you've set it to respond to pings, this is a far more reliable test than the quality monitor.

I think it has to drop 5% of packets per 24 hours before it can be escalated to BT as a circuit fault

[Athanis]

Thanks for the suggestion regarding the TBroadband Ping Checker- I'll give it a go alongside Riks suggestion concerning checking for interference when work lets up. 

[pctech]

Ask support to set up a ping graph on the network and explain your concerns, I'm sure they'll be delighted to help.