Wireless easy to setup ?

Kheldar · Jun 18, 2007, 16:31:19

is it easy to set this up with Idnet ?

anything i need to do before i try ?

this pc is connected directly to the router but finally bought my pc over from the old house and the troulbe and strife is talking about moving rooms where computers live and wants me to put mine elsewhere and link via wireless for a few weeks till we decide for sure...

cheers

steve

Rik · Jun 18, 2007, 16:39:18

It's nothing to do with IDNet as such, just turn on the wireless access point in the router, change SSID to something you will recognise but which doesn't tell other people too much, enable WPA or WPA2, use a strong key, then set up the machines to match the router settings.

If the computers need wireless added, then I would recommend PCI cards rather than USB adaptors. It is generally easier to use 'same brand' throughout to avoid compatibility issues.

AndyG · Jun 18, 2007, 16:57:11

Hi. If you're looking to network a desktop I'd recommend you consider Homeplugs as an alternative to 'wireless', they generally provide a more reliable connection than normal WiFi wireless. See devices like - Solwise.

HTH - Andy

Kheldar · Jun 18, 2007, 17:00:08

thanks Andy - i failed to mention this pc still has the wireless card in it which i can now remove as it used to connect wirelessly to the net at our old house.

Quote from: Rik on Jun 18, 2007, 16:39:18
It's nothing to do with IDNet as such, just turn on the wireless access point in the router, change SSID to something you will recognise but which doesn't tell other people too much, enable WPA or WPA2, use a strong key, then set up the machines to match the router settings.

If the computers need wireless added, then I would recommend PCI cards rather than USB adaptors. It is generally easier to use 'same brand' throughout to avoid compatibility issues.

you are doing it again rik !

at this techy jargon talk !

gonna report you to the plain english commission for abuse of the language !

Rik · Jun 18, 2007, 17:02:25

Not sure if you're sorted, Steve, or still looking for advice.

Kheldar · Jun 18, 2007, 17:04:06

just about to go and connect up the other pc as only just got it out of the car.

then gotta fit the wireless card - plug it all in and pray !

Rik · Jun 18, 2007, 17:17:02

Plug'n'pray - the definition of a Windows user.

Kheldar · Jun 18, 2007, 17:24:51

wireless card fitted.

other pc now booting up down other end of house !

*muchos praying also occuring*

Kheldar · Jun 18, 2007, 17:47:43

praying did not work.

why oh why does windows fail to find anything of use on the actual damn cd rom that came with the card ?

and why oh double why does it keep asking if it can connect to the net to find software?

i mean....the computer is not connected to the net, thats why i'm trying to install the wireless card

so how can it connect to find drivers ?

Rik · Jun 18, 2007, 17:48:43

Because it doesn't know it's not connected - it just knows it's looking for device drivers.

RobMc · Jun 18, 2007, 17:50:50

Quote from: Rik on Jun 18, 2007, 16:39:18
If the computers need wireless added, then I would recommend PCI cards rather than USB adapters.

This is a tricky one. Personally I recommend usb adapters with a usb extension cable. This allows you quite a bit of freedom to move the adapter about to optimize the signal. Last week I installed a wireless desktop for a customer and they wanted the base unit sited behind the drinks bar (which was nicely shielded with a sheet metal front). Don't know if a wireless connection would have worked behind that but with the usb adapter we sited the usb adapter unobtrusively above the bar.

Rob.

Kheldar · Jun 18, 2007, 17:53:31

Quote from: Rik on Jun 18, 2007, 17:48:43
Because it doesn't know it's not connected - it just knows it's looking for device drivers.

yeah and how come it cannot find them on the cd that came with the card ?

windows system says the card has no drivers and is not working ?

Rik · Jun 18, 2007, 17:56:44

Quote from: Kheldar on Jun 18, 2007, 17:53:31
yeah and how come it cannot find them on the cd that came with the card ?

Are the drivers on the card suitable for XP? Have you tried doing a browse to where they are located? Did the CD come with instructions to run it before installing the card?

Quotewindows system says the card has no drivers and is not working ?

Windows is almost certainly correct at this point.

RobMc · Jun 18, 2007, 17:57:01

Just a thought but for most wireless adapters you need to install the software from the cd before plugging in (or installing) the adapter. If this wasn't the case then ignore me

otherwise it may be necessary to remove the device in Device manager, install the software and then let the plug'n'play do it's stuff.

Rob.

Rik · Jun 18, 2007, 17:58:34

I think we are having the same thought, Rob.

RobMc · Jun 18, 2007, 18:08:55

Yeah bit of a duplicate post, bad timing on my part I guess. I've not come across any Wireless adapters that plug'n'play without installing the software first. I just wish manufacturers would give an install option of letting Windows manage the wireless connection rather than installing a load of proprietary software.

Rob.

Kheldar · Jun 18, 2007, 18:10:27

even someone as dumb as me checked that

it says install card, turn on machine with cd in drive and it will do the rest....
yeah its ok for xp cos the machine it used to be inside of and working on is xp.

yep can see the xp folder on the cd and a few things in there....

setup works on the cd - at least it runs and says it doing summat but the card is still not recognised.

oh woe is me.......

Rik · Jun 18, 2007, 18:12:54

Quote from: RobMc on Jun 18, 2007, 18:08:55
Yeah bit of a duplicate post, bad timing on my part I guess.

Better two people with an idea than none, Rob.

I agree with you, though, I'm not keen on proprietary software when Windows is perfectly capable of doing the job itself. I have a particular loathing for router setup CDs which just get in the way of logging in to the browser interface of the router and typing a few things.

Rik · Jun 18, 2007, 18:13:59

Quote from: Kheldar on Jun 18, 2007, 18:10:27
it says install card, turn on machine with cd in drive and it will do the rest....
yeah its ok for xp cos the machine it used to be inside of and working on is xp.

What does device manager show against the card?

Kheldar · Jun 18, 2007, 18:34:57

Quote from: Rik on Jun 18, 2007, 18:13:59
What does device manager show against the card?

interestingly device manager shows it under a section called Other Devices iirc....

where as on this machine in which it used to work fine its listed under Network Adapters ?

reason for that or not important ?

Rik · Jun 18, 2007, 18:43:16

It would appear that device manager has been unable to identify it, so lists it under 'Other...'

Try removing the card and running the CD before replacing it, that might just help.

Kheldar · Jun 18, 2007, 19:11:42

Quote from: Rik on Jun 18, 2007, 18:43:16
It would appear that device manager has been unable to identify it, so lists it under 'Other...'

Try removing the card and running the CD before replacing it, that might just help.

funnily enough rik i was reading a readme on the cd and it said install software THEN card !

not wot the quick install paper instructions say.

so i tried to uninstall the software...removed the card...re-installed software...then the card and still it wont find any bleeding drivers on the damn cd

it still will not recognise the card as a belkin blah blah which it does on this pc....

suffice to say i'm now enjoying the 2003 St Emilion i opened instead.....

RobMc · Jun 18, 2007, 20:33:09

If you can still see the item in device manager under other devices, right click on it and then choose uninstall. This will "get rid of it". Then physically remove the device, run the setup from cd, plug the device in and P'n'P should then work.

Rob.

Kheldar · Jun 18, 2007, 20:42:10

yeah i did try that rob.

uninstall everything.
remove card.
install software.
install card.
windows still wont find the drivers on the cd

dunno wot else to try.

RobMc · Jun 18, 2007, 21:31:08

Last thing I can think of for now is this...

Go to Device Manager

Right Click on the device that's not working and choose uninstall
Then right click on the computer icon (top of list in device manager)
choose "Scan for Hardware Changes"

This will then force a Plug'n'Play scan for hardware.

If it still puts the new device in "Other Devices" then either the setup hasn't worked or somethings is blocking the correct functioning of the device (or drivers). If it still doesn't work by you get here then I'd have a look on the manufacturers website for updated drives/software. The go through the uninstall, remove device, install new software, install device route. If that doesn't work then I'm starting to run out of ideas.

Rob.

Lance · Jun 18, 2007, 22:00:46

The only thing I can think of is to browse the CD, looking for a directory called drivers, or run a search on the CD for a file with extension ".inf". Once you have found this, when windows asks whether to search automatically for a driver say no and point it at the .inf file on the CD.

Alternatively, could you try downloading the latest version of the drivers from the manufacturers website?

Kheldar · Jun 19, 2007, 08:14:42

Quote from: RobMc on Jun 18, 2007, 21:31:08
Last thing I can think of for now is this...

Go to Device Manager

Right Click on the device that's not working and choose uninstall
Then right click on the computer icon (top of list in device manager)
choose "Scan for Hardware Changes"

This will then force a Plug'n'Play scan for hardware.

If it still puts the new device in "Other Devices" then either the setup hasn't worked or somethings is blocking the correct functioning of the device (or drivers). If it still doesn't work by you get here then I'd have a look on the manufacturers website for updated drives/software. The go through the uninstall, remove device, install new software, install device route. If that doesn't work then I'm starting to run out of ideas.

Rob.

tried the scan for new hardware. the problem seems to be with the cd and this pc refusing to believe there are drivers etc on their when the other pc (albeit) a year or 2 ago worked ok

Quote from: Lance on Jun 18, 2007, 22:00:46
The only thing I can think of is to browse the CD, looking for a directory called drivers, or run a search on the CD for a file with extension ".inf". Once you have found this, when windows asks whether to search automatically for a driver say no and point it at the .inf file on the CD.

Alternatively, could you try downloading the latest version of the drivers from the manufacturers website?

yep i even tried doing that Lance. iirc it found only an autorun.inf ? then said nothing of use in that location ?

Othwerwise i will now try to grab a driver from their website. just gotta grab a blank cd to copy it onto as run out and could not find one last night.

the other option of course is i carry the base unit to the location of the other pc and plug it into the net for a few mins to grab a driver using the 2nd pc monitor etc ! twas only yesterday when moving the old monitor that i remembered how bloody damn heavy a 19" Dell CRT monitor is !

B52 · Jun 19, 2007, 09:37:51

Just a thought! (maybe grandma,eggs,suck)

Have you tried the install AFTER turning off all your AV,Antispyware/malware progs that are running in the background..
Had similar probs in the past even though non of the aforementioned showed any problem, but I was then able to get the drivers etc loaded.
Different cards though!

Kheldar · Jun 19, 2007, 09:40:07

prob not actually b52.

the free av program i use is still running if i think about it...

worth a try

Rik · Jun 19, 2007, 09:51:12

If it doesn't work, Rob, it might be registry hacking time. How confident are you in the registry, Kheldar?

BTW, you are not the first person to find that the instructions on how to install only become 'visible' after installation - manufacturers seem to take a delight in doing this sort of thing.

Kheldar · Jun 19, 2007, 10:06:01

Quote from: Rik on Jun 19, 2007, 09:51:12
If it doesn't work, Rob, it might be registry hacking time. How confident are you in the registry, Kheldar?

BTW, you are not the first person to find that the instructions on how to install only become 'visible' after installation - manufacturers seem to take a delight in doing this sort of thing.

registry ?

i got married on top of a hill, overlooking the indian ocean.

did not need a registry office tbh rik.

Rik · Jun 19, 2007, 10:11:43

Have you ever edited the registry? Are you confident about doing it - bearing in mind that if you do something seriously wrong, you can break your Windows installation.

Kheldar · Jun 19, 2007, 10:14:58

not for a while tbh rik.

assuming i can back up the registry ? and / or use that system restore option to be safe ?

i think the best choices for me given a risk based approach are :

1) find drivers from the net and try them on the pc.
2) move the pc to the room where it can be hard wired to the net and get drivers
3) throw pc out of window, go back to playing snap and communicating with people via normal mail !

Rik · Jun 19, 2007, 10:22:30

System restore doesn't fully back up the registry, you'd need to use a utility like Erunt to do that (or backup your system drive with a program like Acronis True Image, which is even better).

You need to find HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Network, then search through that for any references to the Belkin card. Remove any you find. Got back to Device Manager, if the card is still showing, hit uninstall, then re-boot your machine. Try installing again.

Other than the options you list, you could try a different card.

Kheldar · Jun 19, 2007, 10:58:55

ok rik i'll take a look through it later.

Kheldar · Jun 19, 2007, 16:41:40

no references to belkin in that section of registry rik.

with a connection like this why do i even bother with the net !

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
IP profile for your line is - 1000 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 640 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 382 kbps

Rik · Jun 19, 2007, 16:47:53

That's plain ugly. Are you outside the 10 days now (I think you should be), if so, it would be worth having a word with support.

If there are no Belkin drivers indicated in that bit of the registry, you should be able to re-install without problems. Could it be the CD isn't being read, can you look at the files in explorer?

Kheldar · Jun 19, 2007, 17:42:15

along with..

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 640 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 49 db 15.5 db
Noise Margin 11 db 24 db

Rik · Jun 19, 2007, 17:45:23

Those figures are plain crazy, your line should be able to deliver a lot more. If you're satisfied that your internal wiring is not to blame, give support a call and get them to test, involving BT as necessary.

Kheldar · Jun 19, 2007, 17:46:29

i guess i cannot be sure of the internal wiring rik

i reckon i need to do more to test / check it first ?

ie read more on the stuff you've said before and in the stick about bell wires etc ?

Rik · Jun 19, 2007, 17:50:50

It would be wise to make all the checks you can before calling support, as BT will charge for anything they find after the master socket. That said, you should be getting much more from that line than you are, so if you can eliminate your own wiring and things are no better, then a call to support should start the process of improvement for you. Do make sure you have one (or several) BT tests before you call support.

Kheldar · Jun 19, 2007, 18:05:00

yeah.

i dont think i have the new type of socket to use that test plug inside it ?

nor am i using the master socket to my knowledge so good chance some internal problem !

Rik · Jun 19, 2007, 18:13:56

Using the master socket is a bit of a red herring in most cases, it will rarely offer improved performance over an extension unless the latter is wired badly.

Most of the problems are caused by noise pickup, and this is often down to the bell wire being connected - getting rid of that wire can have an almost miraculous effect. Even with the NTE5 master socket, when the faceplate is in position, the noise from your internal wiring is fed into the circuit. Only at the test socket, which disconnects all the internal wiring, can you get a true idea of what your line is capable of (and how much influence your internal wiring is having). If you have multiple extensions, they can increase the noise pickup. I had my wiring simplified from four to two internal extensions, and, with the bell wire removed, it made a big difference to my connection.

That said, given the figures you have been seeing, I suspect that some of your wiring may be an issue - but then it could be a line fault. Without the test socket, you will be limited in the amount of detective work you can do.

Kheldar · Jun 19, 2007, 18:29:43

why oh why cant i drag and drop some files directly to a cd.

the cd has space cos i was using it earlier.

it now seems to queue files and wants me to click to start the burn process.

that fails and says it cannot use the cd with a feww hundred mb of space !

arghhhhh.

Supanova · Jun 19, 2007, 19:05:23

The data on the real CD will be compressed, which apparently the burner cannot do. This means that without compression the data is greater than the 700MB that is available on the blank CD.

Looks to me like your gonna have to move the whole rig to somewhere with internet access and download the drivers there and then.

Kheldar · Jun 19, 2007, 21:07:01

file was a zip that i downloaded from the netgear website.....but its only 20mb when i extracted it to the c drive have a look.

250mb left on the cd ?

ok got the files/drivers installed.

installed the card.

reboot.....

and pc crashes !

boots and says windows has recovered from a serious error...send report yes or no.

then networking side of windows comes up and asks if you want to disable the inbuilt windows config and use the netgear stuff....cant select yes or no.

10 seconds later pc just reboots......and we're back to a never ending circle !

lol i have now officially given up. time to go and pack cos driving to warrington tomorrow then read reading on thursday !

Supanova · Jun 19, 2007, 21:56:21

start in safe mode and install.

Kheldar · Jun 20, 2007, 12:47:59

will have to try that i guess tomorrow night when home or friday.

i'm sure it was much easier in the old days when i actually had to set irq's / base memory addresses etc using jumpers and dip switches !

Rik · Jun 20, 2007, 12:50:24

Plug'n'play is great when/if it works. When it doesn't, it just makes life hard.

Kheldar · Jun 20, 2007, 12:55:55

very Rik.

you install the card, use the cd that came with the card.

and windows decides to crash every time ?

why i ask you ?

why !

Rik · Jun 20, 2007, 12:57:19

Because it can? 8)

Kheldar · Jun 20, 2007, 13:04:37

but the real question is why ?

its so damn frustrating.

i long for the days of dos.

fiddling with config.sys and autoexec.bat etc seemed childsplay compared to this windows lark.

or am i just old and senile

Rik · Jun 20, 2007, 14:19:06

Quote from: Kheldar on Jun 20, 2007, 13:04:37
or am i just old and senile

You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.

MS decided our fates when they introduced the registry. Previously, settings had usually been stored in ini files in the application folder. They were simple text files, a legacy of DOS, but it meant that we could get in and tweak (it also made it a doddle to configure a new machine, as we could simply copy across folders). Once the registry came along, together with plug'n'play and certified drivers, life got a whole lot more difficult - though for many, the new approach actually made life simpler.

In many respects, Windows needs re-designing from the ground up, but that would alienate people with legacy hardware and software, so it isn't likely to happen anytime soon.

Kheldar · Jun 20, 2007, 15:41:03

*stares dreamily in the air remember the good old days*

Rik · Jun 20, 2007, 16:01:11

Of course, Windows did fall over a lot more back then...

Kheldar · Jun 21, 2007, 22:36:16

not really.

it was easier to troubleshoot it.